U.S Shootings

CaptainJackson

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That's all well and true but let's not dilute how fucked up trump is. Lets not pretend that his divisive words are not only having an impact on the US but around the world too.

They're all fcuked yes, from Reagan right up to trump (more before Reagan too) but please let's not pretend that we're not at a new level of fcuked-up-ness
 

Flanagun

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They do not give a shit. Which part of that dont you understand? Civil discussion has been attempted many times, THEY DO NOT CARE. And now innocent people are dead.
It's not just about what Trump supporters think. A major reason Trump won the election and rose to power is that the DNC sunk too deep into the politics of finger pointing and failed to address its own shortcomings. Labeling Trump's supporters as pieces of shit (deplorables was the term that was actually used by the Clinton campaign) and expecting that to sway people to the democrats side with the it's us or the monster tactic gave Trump's campaign the boost it needed to win government. Sitting behind a computer and picking fights with Trump supporters isn't going to slow them down, or to stop those bodies from piling up... if anything, it just encourages them to dig their heels in and delve deeper into the siege mentality they have adopted. Reforming Trump's opposition and building it into a stronger force which has broader appeal and the ability to engage more voters and more importantly, unite more people just might lead to constructive change. His opposition will only become more formidable if it acknowledges and removes the skeletons from its own closet. It may not be possible to change the views of those who support Trump, but I absolutely believe there are a lot of disillusioned people out there who tune into these debates and these people don't just want someone who isn't Trump, they want a rational, level headed, viable alternative. Name calling and telling people they are responsible for the deaths of others isn't going to achieve a thing..... understanding how society got to this point may give clues on how we can attempt to rectify things and move forward constructively

Whether you agreed with the example given by Armchair Critic or not, I do see a history of racism in American politics which has no doubt contributed to things escalating to their current flashpoint. Politicians have engaged in a form of thinly veiled racist rhetoric for a long time. I think it is important to examine the past in order to understand how things have escalated to this point. I was just making the point that I think Archie's question probably deserves further investigation....even though I think he meant it sarcastically. That doesn't mean I agree with Archie's political viewpoints.....or that I'm some sort of Trump apologist. And I don't think it's off topic at all to delve deeper into Archie's question....even if it was intended to be sarcastic. I'm not sure whether you construed it as a personal attack, but it was just an attempt to look at that question more holistically.
 

Hacky McAxe

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I see the media and political groups are now running with the agenda that violent video games and heavy metal are to blame for these shootings. All because 1 shooter wrote in his 4 page manifesto a minute mention of Call of Duty and the other shooter was wearing a metal band's shirt.
We all know the truth. They did it 'cause they're Bulldogs supporters. Dig deep enough and I'm sure you'll find out that they once watched half a Bulldogs game on TV.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Trumps been accused of racism several times before these incidents. Each time his supporters have made excuses for him or said that it's not racism

Trumps been accused of enabling and empowering racists. Each time his supporters have made excuses for him or said that it's not racism

Trumps words have empowered a gun man to commit PREMEDITATED murder on a mass scale. Now again his supporters are making excuses for him and saying hes not a racist

The last trump nutcase who sent bombs to various people now has a lawyer arguing that his client was misled by trumps words.
The thing to keep in mind though is that Trump immediately distanced himself from his followers that carried out these actions.

I'm not supporting Trump in any way and I'm also not saying he isn't racist (he most definitely is). I'm just saying that there's a big difference between inciting violence and what Trump does. Inciting violence is when you demand the public take action against a group. Trump never demanded or even suggested that people carry out acts of violence on his behalf. That's just pricks being pricks.

They definitely are being influenced by the current political climate though, but that's not purely Trump. That's a combination of many problems that exist in America right now and they have been building for decades.
 

Hacky McAxe

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It's not just about what Trump supporters think. A major reason Trump won the election and rose to power is that the DNC sunk too deep into the politics of finger pointing and failed to address its own shortcomings. Labeling Trump's supporters as pieces of shit (deplorables was the term that was actually used by the Clinton campaign) and expecting that to sway people to the democrats side with the it's us or the monster tactic gave Trump's campaign the boost it needed to win government. Sitting behind a computer and picking fights with Trump supporters isn't going to slow them down, or to stop those bodies from piling up... if anything, it just encourages them to dig their heels in and delve deeper into the siege mentality they have adopted. Reforming Trump's opposition and building it into a stronger force which has broader appeal and the ability to engage more voters and more importantly, unite more people just might lead to constructive change. His opposition will only become more formidable if it acknowledges and removes the skeletons from its own closet. It may not be possible to change the views of those who support Trump, but I absolutely believe there are a lot of disillusioned people out there who tune into these debates and these people don't just want someone who isn't Trump, they want a rational, level headed, viable alternative. Name calling and telling people they are responsible for the deaths of others isn't going to achieve a thing..... understanding how society got to this point may give clues on how we can attempt to rectify things and move forward constructively

Whether you agreed with the example given by Armchair Critic or not, I do see a history of racism in American politics which has no doubt contributed to things escalating to their current flashpoint. Politicians have engaged in a form of thinly veiled racist rhetoric for a long time. I think it is important to examine the past in order to understand how things have escalated to this point. I was just making the point that I think Archie's question probably deserves further investigation....even though I think he meant it sarcastically. That doesn't mean I agree with Archie's political viewpoints.....or that I'm some sort of Trump apologist. And I don't think it's off topic at all to delve deeper into Archie's question....even if it was intended to be sarcastic. I'm not sure whether you construed it as a personal attack, but it was just an attempt to look at that question more holistically.
This 100%. The current state of affairs is the responsibility of everyone. There's definitely tensions that have been rising for a long time and they're only going to get worse in the foreseeable future. The only way to combat it is to find out why it's happening and address the issues. When each side throws wood on the fire it just escalates the issue and makes things worse.

Violence begets violence. You can't fight hate with more hate.
 

Flanagun

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This 100%. The current state of affairs is the responsibility of everyone. There's definitely tensions that have been rising for a long time and they're only going to get worse in the foreseeable future. The only way to combat it is to find out why it's happening and address the issues. When each side throws wood on the fire it just escalates the issue and makes things worse.

Violence begets violence. You can't fight hate with more hate.
You know what that country needs? Adam freaking Elliott!
 

Flanagun

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The thing to keep in mind though is that Trump immediately distanced himself from his followers that carried out these actions.

I'm not supporting Trump in any way and I'm also not saying he isn't racist (he most definitely is). I'm just saying that there's a big difference between inciting violence and what Trump does. Inciting violence is when you demand the public take action against a group. Trump never demanded or even suggested that people carry out acts of violence on his behalf. That's just pricks being pricks.

They definitely are being influenced by the current political climate though, but that's not purely Trump. That's a combination of many problems that exist in America right now and they have been building for decades.
He may not be directly inciting violence, but he is definitely dehumanising certain groups. Again, he is not the first politician to do this, but he has cranked the volume up to max.
 

Memberberries

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I see the media and political groups are now running with the agenda that violent video games and heavy metal are to blame for these shootings. All because 1 shooter wrote in his 4 page manifesto a minute mention of Call of Duty and the other shooter was wearing a metal band's shirt.
There were no violent video games or heavy metal music in the times of the crusades.
Just many illiterate people with the fear of god in them.
 

Realist90

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No one is going to talk about the Ohio massacre shooter being a hate fueled trump sheep and wanted gun control? To me this is a perfect example of a far left white mummies boy.
Cries about how everyone hates and there needs to be gun control yet goes and does what he preaches is bad. Was also a Bernie supporter, all there too see for everyone on the internet lol. Is bernie to blame for that massacre? I mean wait shouldn’t I call it a terrorist attack? People on the left are also way too caught up on wanting to call everything a terrorist attack to make others feel not targeted lol. What a ridiculous thing. It doesn’t bring back anyone from the dead and doesn’t change what the scum have just done. Massacre, terrorist attack etc all the same outcome but differenting motives which can help understand and underline where the issue is.
 

Realist90

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Was it racist when Hillary referred to black youths as super predators? Was it racist when the Clinton government targeted predominantly black and Hispanic people with its prisons for profit scheme? Was it racist when the Clintons employed slave labour when Bill was governor of Arkansas?

Not defending Trump for a second, I think he’s a vile and dangerous human being, but come on dude, the Clintons were never afraid to marginalise racial groups in their quest to drag the democrats further to
the centre right.
Oufffff lol
 

Realist90

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He may not be directly inciting violence, but he is definitely dehumanising certain groups. Again, he is not the first politician to do this, but he has cranked the volume up to max.
Dehumanising which group exactly?
If calling out illegal immigrants as illegal immigrants and wants to get them out the country, that’s just enforcing a law. If he doesn’t want actual American citizens to pay tax to give illegal immigrant (people who came into a country illegally) free health care how does that say he is dehumanising them? What you’ve done and the left has essentially done is twist it so that the perpetrators have now become the victims. If you wanna talk about the four dirty congresswomen and his remarks, common sense should be applied, he didn’t say it in a racist way where I was told back in school to go back to my own country you dirty hairy gerkin lol, he was trying to point out that these women especially iihan and Cortez hate the country and capitalism so much that they should go back to their native land assess and try and change what’s actually happening over there. But of course instead of applying common sense it was blown out of proportion straight away by msm as purely racist tweets. I mean these girls have so much freedom more freedom than they’d get in Somalia and co and act like they’re in chains in America lol. They’re literally walking incarnations of irony
 

Realist90

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There were no violent video games or heavy metal music in the times of the crusades.
Just many illiterate people with the fear of god in them.
Hey, the crusades were a necessity of the times. There would be no west as you see it today had they not defended Europe. Probably some people would prefer that actually lol
 

Realist90

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You were talking about false equivalences and what aboutisms..... I simply pointed out that their basic point that racism has been entrenched in Americal politics for a long time is not untrue, whether you agree with that particular argument or not.....

I'm not appeasing anyone, I'm just stating my opinion that you often simplify issues or neglect to address problems that exist on the left side of the political divide ....and those problems have been a contributing factor to the rise of Trumpism. I fail to see what you think you are going to achieve by talking down to people and being overly combative....you even talk down to people who agree with you on many points....If you want top go around labeling people as pieces of shit, that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to stop you....but I don't need to be told how I should conduct myself.
You appeasing right wingers? You mustn’t be left enough for some lol. You’re probably a Russian spy that they’ve labelled that woman as in the dnc debates coz she took Harris to the cleaners for exposing her hypocrisies and major failures
 

CrittaMagic69

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I see the media and political groups are now running with the agenda that violent video games and heavy metal are to blame for these shootings. All because 1 shooter wrote in his 4 page manifesto a minute mention of Call of Duty and the other shooter was wearing a metal band's shirt.
I have a family member that's full on like that. I then turned it around on her and was like what about Game of Thrones and all these other shows/movies you enjoy watching that glorify violence, wouldn't these have more of a impact? And then she's like "na that's different" lol.
 

CaptainJackson

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It's not just about what Trump supporters think. A major reason Trump won the election and rose to power is that the DNC sunk too deep into the politics of finger pointing and failed to address its own shortcomings. Labeling Trump's supporters as pieces of shit (deplorables was the term that was actually used by the Clinton campaign) and expecting that to sway people to the democrats side with the it's us or the monster tactic gave Trump's campaign the boost it needed to win government. Sitting behind a computer and picking fights with Trump supporters isn't going to slow them down, or to stop those bodies from piling up... if anything, it just encourages them to dig their heels in and delve deeper into the siege mentality they have adopted. Reforming Trump's opposition and building it into a stronger force which has broader appeal and the ability to engage more voters and more importantly, unite more people just might lead to constructive change. His opposition will only become more formidable if it acknowledges and removes the skeletons from its own closet. It may not be possible to change the views of those who support Trump, but I absolutely believe there are a lot of disillusioned people out there who tune into these debates and these people don't just want someone who isn't Trump, they want a rational, level headed, viable alternative. Name calling and telling people they are responsible for the deaths of others isn't going to achieve a thing..... understanding how society got to this point may give clues on how we can attempt to rectify things and move forward constructively

Whether you agreed with the example given by Armchair Critic or not, I do see a history of racism in American politics which has no doubt contributed to things escalating to their current flashpoint. Politicians have engaged in a form of thinly veiled racist rhetoric for a long time. I think it is important to examine the past in order to understand how things have escalated to this point. I was just making the point that I think Archie's question probably deserves further investigation....even though I think he meant it sarcastically. That doesn't mean I agree with Archie's political viewpoints.....or that I'm some sort of Trump apologist. And I don't think it's off topic at all to delve deeper into Archie's question....even if it was intended to be sarcastic. I'm not sure whether you construed it as a personal attack, but it was just an attempt to look at that question more holistically.
Without a doubt racism has played a part before trump in politics. So it's not something new. However trumps rhetoric has most definitely empowered those racists. They've become emboldened. It's not just the mass gun shootings but hate crimes have exponentially increased with trumps massive public platform as president.

To me that suggests that these people were just waiting for societies acceptance in being able to publicly expose their hatred bullshit.

Civil discussion was had before trump became president, it didnt change a thing amongst the racists. Civil discussion is had even more now, with trump at the helm, to combat the copious amounts of garbage that comes out of his mouth and it doesnt change a thing.

They celebrated when that woman was killed in charlotesville, they called her a slut, a whore, a fat whale.

And dont forget there were good people and bad people on both sides. Ffs he emboldened neo nazis to wave the nazi flag out on the streets.

They claimed the sandy hook massacre was a hoax and conspiracy by "the left"

Trump himself said that he could walk down the street shoot someone and people would still support him. They cheered

Trump told 4 congresswoman to go back where they came from simply because they want to improve America and have differing ideals. His supporters cheered and chanted send them back.

You honestly think we're still at the point of civil discussion? When fuckheads like tucker Carlson, sean hannity, and fox news in general continue to pour copious amounts of bigotry and hate onto the fire?

Good luck with that. These arseholes need to be confronted and told what shit humans they are.

@Hacky McAxe he can distance himself as much as he wants but the fact is before hand he encourages that behaviour, that hate. Using words like "invasion", "rodents" etc they're words to dehumanize and open the path ways to abuse. The prick knows exactly what hes doing. Hes no different to ISIS propaganda. There is no distancing himself that's a complete load of bullshit.
 

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There's been 4 mass shootings under Trump and there was 24 under Obama by far the most of any presidential term.
Just saying
 

Realist90

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There's been 4 mass shootings under Trump and there was 24 under Obama by far the most of any presidential term.
Just saying
Also at least trump isn’t doin what the left and msm are doing which is blaming trump. Trump didn’t blame Bernie for his supporter committing a massacre but said the kid was clearly mentally ill. But trump is the divisive one.
 

JUNKYARD DOGS

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BAN KNIVES!

Oh wait exactly what you said, the media won’t get a hold of this one.

Pays fault, Trumps fault
 
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