The Real Outcomes of BLM

Hacky McAxe

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The closest thing to a definition I can see from those links is quoted as:

"Systemic racism is naming the process of white supremacy". Do you agree with this comment? It's important to define exactly what you mean by systemic racism.

Can systemic racism relate to any ethnic groups other than whites or are white people the only people capable of systemic racism?
That was one of several definitions in that one section. With only that definition you're taking it a bit out of context but, it's important to note that we're talking primarily about systemic racism in the US which doesn't happen against white people as it's a system wide thing. It shouldn't be confused with general racism which happens against blacks, whites, asians, hispanic, middle easterners, etc. It's also important to note that systemic racism can happen against white people as was seen in the Ottoman Empire and is seen in parts of Africa and Japan currently.

This is one of the other descriptions from the same article. Right above the description you quoted:

Johnson defined systemic racism, also called structural racism or institutional racism, as "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans."

Out of context even this quote would look odd as systemic racism against whites can happen in other countries as I pointed out above, but this is specific to the systemic racism in the US.

For more detailed definitions, here's a description and analysis from representatives of the Catholic Church in America:

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act.../racism/upload/racism-and-systemic-racism.pdf

Systemic Racism

Discrimination based on race and ethnicity takes many forms. The United States has made progress in eliminating some of the institutional, legalized racial discrimination of years past such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, “separate but equal” schools, and prohibitions on voting or owning land. These hard-fought victories deserve to be remembered and celebrated. Still, these advances are incomplete. Data on social and economic welfare show disparities between many persons of color and their white counterparts....


Or a civil liberties description that may shed more light on it.

http://www.aclrc.com/forms-of-racism

Systemic Racism includes the policies and practices entrenched in established institutions, which result in the exclusion or promotion of designated groups. It differs from overt discrimination in that no individual intent is necessary. (Toronto Mayor's Committee on Community and Race Relations. Race Relations: Myths and Facts)

It manifests itself in two ways:

  1. institutional racism: racial discrimination that derives from individuals carrying out the dictates of others who are prejudiced or of a prejudiced society
  2. structural racism: inequalities rooted in the system-wide operation of a society that excludes substantial numbers of members of particular groups from significant participation in major social institutions. (Henry & Tator, 2006, p. 352)
 

Dawgfather

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Me : "you're a piece of shit"

Dawgfather "you're a liar and only interested in an agenda and couldn't care less that a baby was killed"

I know which one is worse.

Go fuck yourself you nazi piece of shit, don't you have a Klan meeting to go to?

I picked your behaviour out ages ago and called you out on it ages ago. I also picked out your massive hypocrisy of claiming others were not being reasonable, meanwhile 5 minutes earlier youd done the exact same thing you were complaining about.

Yeh I swear, with good fucking reason as well when its racist pieces of shit like you.
Utility seems like an angry individual and so do you. I’ll say an extra prayer for you tonight.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Im not sure about you but I certainly don’t decide whether I like someone or not based on some Internet posts.

I criticise Captain Jackson because he is generally incapable of forming independent thought or his own opinion and when he does manage to get words on paper, he asks Hacky to verify them and confirm he used the correct narrative.

Apart from this he resorts to expletives and aggressive language rather than giving any chance for a reasonable debate to develop.
You obviously haven't seen Capn' and I debating about Antifa.
 

Dawgfather

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That was one of several definitions in that one section. With only that definition you're taking it a bit out of context but, it's important to note that we're talking primarily about systemic racism in the US which doesn't happen against white people as it's a system wide thing. It shouldn't be confused with general racism which happens against blacks, whites, asians, hispanic, middle easterners, etc. It's also important to note that systemic racism can happen against white people as was seen in the Ottoman Empire and is seen in parts of Africa and Japan currently.

This is one of the other descriptions from the same article. Right above the description you quoted:

Johnson defined systemic racism, also called structural racism or institutional racism, as "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans."

Out of context even this quote would look odd as systemic racism against whites can happen in other countries as I pointed out above, but this is specific to the systemic racism in the US.

For more detailed definitions, here's a description and analysis from representatives of the Catholic Church in America:

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act.../racism/upload/racism-and-systemic-racism.pdf

Systemic Racism

Discrimination based on race and ethnicity takes many forms. The United States has made progress in eliminating some of the institutional, legalized racial discrimination of years past such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, “separate but equal” schools, and prohibitions on voting or owning land. These hard-fought victories deserve to be remembered and celebrated. Still, these advances are incomplete. Data on social and economic welfare show disparities between many persons of color and their white counterparts....


Or a civil liberties description that may shed more light on it.

http://www.aclrc.com/forms-of-racism

Systemic Racism includes the policies and practices entrenched in established institutions, which result in the exclusion or promotion of designated groups. It differs from overt discrimination in that no individual intent is necessary. (Toronto Mayor's Committee on Community and Race Relations. Race Relations: Myths and Facts)

It manifests itself in two ways:

  1. institutional racism: racial discrimination that derives from individuals carrying out the dictates of others who are prejudiced or of a prejudiced society
  2. structural racism: inequalities rooted in the system-wide operation of a society that excludes substantial numbers of members of particular groups from significant participation in major social institutions. (Henry & Tator, 2006, p. 352)
All of this is really high level ‘Structures and systems’ without actually naming which structures and which systems. Makes it hard to debate.

Is there a specific US law or institution that we can discuss which specifically singles out blacks and creates poor outcomes?
 

Hacky McAxe

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All of this is really high level ‘Structures and systems’ without actually naming which structures and which systems. Makes it hard to debate.

Is there a specific US law or institution that we can discuss which specifically singles out blacks and creates poor outcomes?
There's many. The point of systemic racism is that it's systemic. Meaning it's not a single law, a single section. It's about the whole system which is why I shared much of the research that covers many assets of the system that causes problems.

But your response is perfectly summing up the whole issue:

"Is there a specific US law or institution"

Many laws and institutions are addressed every day for their racism issues. But that's like walking in to the middle of a warzone, disarming one mine and saying "I have fixed everything"

Trying to focus on a single law is not seeing the forest because you're trying to deal with one tree.
 

Dawgfather

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There's many. The point of systemic racism is that it's systemic. Meaning it's not a single law, a single section. It's about the whole system which is why I shared much of the research that covers many assets of the system that causes problems.

But your response is perfectly summing up the whole issue:

"Is there a specific US law or institution"

Many laws and institutions are addressed every day for their racism issues. But that's like walking in to the middle of a warzone, disarming one mine and saying "I have fixed everything"

Trying to focus on a single law is not seeing the forest because you're trying to deal with one tree.
I’m willing to venture into this concept with an open mind that it may exist. But surely if it’s so prevalent and obvious there must be at least one law or institution that you can point to which is inherently racist (amongst the many which you are saying exist to create the systematic nature)?
 

Hacky McAxe

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I’m willing to venture into this concept with an open mind that it may exist. But surely if it’s so prevalent and obvious there must be at least one law or institution that you can point to which is inherently racist (amongst the many which you are saying exist to create the systematic nature)?
Here's an example

 

Hacky McAxe

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There were also other parts covered in the research I shared.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Psychological studies find similar issues still in place. There were studies into using AI algorithms to hire people. The AI would automatically favour people with white sounding names over people with non-white sounding names. Amazon found the same issue with the AI hiring men over women.

These AI are based on current society hiring habits.
 

Nasheed

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Blacks commit more crime and therefore get into more scuffles with police.

This isnt just america, its everywhere.

A smart black american who is groomed and dresses and talkks like don lemon will probably not experience negative racism.

going to an interview with grills and a bandanna and fubu shirt will.


Its not hard to understand. its culture and holding people to account. Whites would be the same.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Even as late as 2018 the US Supreme Court allowed for a voter purge, preventing people from voting if they didn't vote in every election. That purge was used to remove predominantly black voters

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...ter-purges-prevent-eligible-americans-voting/

This coupled with things like the recent move to rescind the voting rights of reformed criminals in states with higher black criminal rates

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2019/06/28/471082/floridas-modern-day-poll-tax/

Trump even moved to remove citizenship and voting rights from any child born in America with a single undocumented parent

https://www.axios.com/trump-birthri...der-0cf4285a-16c6-48f2-a933-bd71fd72ea82.html

And the key problem being the fact that there is not enough effort to fix the problems that were put in place over the last few hundred years. Centuries of systemic racism lead to black people being less likely to have an opportunity leading to them being a higher chance of being in poverty. Then the response after all that is, "Get yourselves out of the mess we put you in"
 

Nasheed

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Psychological studies find similar issues still in place. There were studies into using AI algorithms to hire people. The AI would automatically favour people with white sounding names over people with non-white sounding names. Amazon found the same issue with the AI hiring men over women.

These AI are based on current society hiring habits.
ill be straight up.

i worked for so long in a role that made me sift through suvch names and i will admit if i saw a white name id get excited.
BUT, it had nothing to do with race. Im the least racist person on the kennel.
it was because 'Sandeep singh' almost always would have a complicated visa issue and likely had bad english, whereas 'Angus Simon' youd have none of these issues.

Also its unlikely Sandeep has experience in Oz.

So whilst wha u be saying thats true, its for the wrong reasons.
 

Hacky McAxe

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ill be straight up.

i worked for so long in a role that made me sift through suvch names and i will admit if i saw a white name id get excited.
BUT, it had nothing to do with race. Im the least racist person on the kennel.
it was because 'Sandeep singh' almost always would have a complicated visa issue and likely had bad english, whereas 'Angus Simon' youd have none of these issues.

Also its unlikely Sandeep has experience in Oz.

So whilst wha u be saying thats true, its for the wrong reasons.
I've generally allowed anyone to apply and interview but we require operators to be fully understandable as we deal with emergency situations. Occasionally I've called up an applicant on the phone and said, "sorry, can't help" after I spent 10 minutes trying to understand a single word they said.

On the highlighted part though, "I'm the least racist person on the Kennel".... Didn't you recently share a link to a Nazi forum?
 

CroydonDog

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This coupled with things like the recent move to rescind the voting rights of reformed criminals in states with higher black criminal rates

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2019/06/28/471082/floridas-modern-day-poll-tax/
This was basically how Dubya won the 2000 election basically by 500 Florida votes. There is also evidence of states influencing voting by having fewer stations in certain suburbs, making it just that much harder to cast your vote.

The US voting system is generally stacked against poorer voters, those who are less likely to be able to take some time off work to wait at a booth. Our system isn't perfect by any means, but we really should be grateful for compulsory voting, that elections are on a weekend and there is opportunity to vote beforehand if you cant on the day.
 

Dogna88

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Really. Just fight to the death. Only way to solve things.

No side will really think they are wrong. If we just all fight now. The losing side can submit through force
 

Dawgfather

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Even as late as 2018 the US Supreme Court allowed for a voter purge, preventing people from voting if they didn't vote in every election. That purge was used to remove predominantly black voters

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...ter-purges-prevent-eligible-americans-voting/

This coupled with things like the recent move to rescind the voting rights of reformed criminals in states with higher black criminal rates

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2019/06/28/471082/floridas-modern-day-poll-tax/

Trump even moved to remove citizenship and voting rights from any child born in America with a single undocumented parent

https://www.axios.com/trump-birthri...der-0cf4285a-16c6-48f2-a933-bd71fd72ea82.html

And the key problem being the fact that there is not enough effort to fix the problems that were put in place over the last few hundred years. Centuries of systemic racism lead to black people being less likely to have an opportunity leading to them being a higher chance of being in poverty. Then the response after all that is, "Get yourselves out of the mess we put you in"
will need to read into all these but will craft a reply over the next day or two.
 
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