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Opinion Obviously winning wont change "hypocrites"

Discussion in 'Bulldogs Discussion' started by Mike Z, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. doggieaaron

    doggieaaron Immortal

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    Haha I agree mate and swearing every now and then who cares
     
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  2. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    Have you looked at the playing roster at all since Pay took over? Shouldn’t we praise him for his efforts in avoiding the spoon last year and getting us off the bottom so far this year, when every so called expert, professional commentator picked us for the spoon?

    Go Dogs
     
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  3. Spoonman84

    Spoonman84 Immortal

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    It’s a tad premature to praise his efforts avoiding the spoon when we have been anchored to the bottom of the table for the majority of the season. There’s still plenty of games left and a spoon is still a very real possibility.
     
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  4. Xander

    Xander Participant

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    We finally won two games in a row - against teams who played awful - at the Origin period of the year. We've won 11 games in the past 2 years.

    I have observed zero evolution of anything that could even be suggested to be a game plan or style of play. I haven't seen a single player improve or play to their full potential.

    We continue to bleed players and we've only picked up one new player of any level of calibre.

    At what point do we expect all of these things to change under Pay? Another 6 weeks? 6 months? 3 years?
     
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  5. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    Perhaps you missed this bit;
    Go Dogs
     
  6. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    Only 2 games admittedly but DWZ is playing the best I have seen him play for couple of seasons, I don't think we can ignore that.
    Players that I have seen improve this year so far Cogger, Meaney, Wakeham, To'Omaga, JMK, Okunbor and I think Hopoate is playing as good as he ever has.

    When we have a few strike players who can execute decent (ie; complex) plays, until then there's is no choice but to keep it simple and straight forward, tackle, complete, finish the set and take opportunities when they present themselves (some call it heads up footy).

    Go Dogs
     
  7. Spoonman84

    Spoonman84 Immortal

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    No I saw that perhaps you missed the bit where we have been on the bottom for 13 of the 16 weeks. Scraping off the bottom of the ladder is hardly something to celebrate its embarrassing that it's seen as a major achievement under Pays watch.
     
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  8. Xander

    Xander Participant

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    Fair enough, they're good points
     
  9. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    Is there something factually incorrect in what I posted? No? Is it possible that the problem is you don't liked someone posting the truth when it doesn't align with your opinion? The facts are the facts, we were tipped for last last year and we didn't finish last. We were tipped by almost everyone to be last all this year and currently we aren't. That may change next week, obviously, but to date we have won 25% more games this year than last year.

    As far as I'm concerned it is major achievement, considering the depths of where we have come from and the player talent that we have available. Of course we all want more, but let's be realistic, where we are is better than what most professionals forecast.

    Go Dogs
     
  10. albatross

    albatross Forum Regular

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    I agree the Coach should get some credit when we win a couple on the trot, just like he cops it when we lose. Overall I reckon it's a bit hard on Pay to say he can't coach when he's got a pretty ordinary squad which were favourites for the spoon in all markets at the start of the year. Still, even in those couple of wins I haven't seen any real game plan or strategy. We're just trying hard and gutsing it out a lot better when defending our own line - which we did monotonously at times against the Karnigits. Cogger is more valuable than some think at the moment with some organisational ability at least. We should review Pay's performance at the end of the year, but I don't seen any point in changing the coach before that.

    Hopefully the wins build some confidence and we improve our cohesion more against the Broncos. I'll be there on Thursday night cheering loud.
     
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  11. Spoonman84

    Spoonman84 Immortal

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    Where did I dispute your facts? We aren't on the bottom the table.

    Seeing as you are a man of facts tell me where we were tipped for the spoon in 2018? I'll help you out here we weren't so don't try to re write history to suit a agenda.

    You can sugar coat it all you want with 1 extra win then this time last year but we have scored less points and conceded more. We shouldn't be in a position where we are battling for the spoon with the Titans and the majority of the blame falls on Pay's shoulders.

    Let's wait until Round 25 before you hold your street parade for Pay avoiding the spoon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  12. Chris Harding

    Chris Harding Steam Powered Dog Premium Member

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    I think you missed the sarcasm in my post.
     
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  13. Mbappé2020

    Mbappé2020 Immortal Gilded

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    You got me good
     
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  14. dogluva

    dogluva Immortal

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    One swallow does not make a summer and we have a long way to go until we can be considered a threat to the competition and a contender. The last two games have been different for us though ..we have hung in there and not been adversely influenced when things have gone wrong. We were lacking any type of cohesion and confidence and of course that was extremely frustrating to us as supporters too just as it must have been to the players.

    We have taken our chances and gotten those 50/50 calls last few weeks and hey we have two wins against two more fancied opponents. Good effort. If coach said go and play what is in front of you, then well and good but it does not excuse the poor direction we have seen for the majority of the season.

    Hope that everyone takes heart from the last two weeks and we can at least avoid that dreaded spoon. I must say that the wins against Cronulla and Knights were so much like winning a GF...it certainly buoyed my enthusiasm and put a smile on my face making the win on Friday even sweeter. Forget the fact that the Knights had players backing up...all bar one of them ( Pearce) played just on or less than one half of a game of footy in SOO and don't forget we LOST TWO players within the first 18 minutes to injury which would have screwed with our rotation and put some pressure back on blokes who would not have been expecting to play as many minutes as they did. Full credit to the squad but I will reserve my final judgement on the ability of one Dean Pay and certain players within that squad until they consistently produce results better than those of all bar the last few weeks.

    Let's enjoy the fact that for at least this week we are off the bottom of the ladder.........
    .
     
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  15. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    I agree "we shouldn't be in a position where we are battling for the spoon with the Titans", they were picked by many to make the finals. Whereas we were almost unanimously picked to get the spoon all on our own. Where we don't agree is that you place the majority of blame on the coach, when we never had the players in the first place. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the previous administration, including the coach, who left us in the dire situation where we have a bunch of willing players but no game winners, no strike players, no real guns. A situation that is going to take us more than a couple of years to fully extricate ourselves from.

    Last year we started off the season with a much better team than we have had this year (eg; Klemmer; Mozzies, etc), plus as I have pointed out previously the refs are allowing more game time (ball in play) which means more points will be scored agains the weaker teams (like us). So you quote for and against and I'll quote wins, neither is wrong.

    Go Dogs
     
  16. Mr Invisible

    Mr Invisible Immortal

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    One swallow does not make a baby either!

    The fact remains despite all the positivity of Pay supporters: This season is the 4th worst in the clubs history.

    At best if we win every single game, it'll still be in the lower 35% of all seasons in the clubs history (I think best we can do is about 24th out of 84 seasons).

    So regardless how people spin it, this season and Pay are both failures, and we can ill afford to have another season like this current one.
     
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  17. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    But we will have another tough season, next season, maybe (hopefully) with a couple of game changing players added. Which should mean that we do better than this season, which is currently better than last season. This is not the current players fault or the coaching staff, it’s the situation they (and we) inherited. My view hasn’t changed since the 2017 football club meeting, this shit is deep, real deep, and it will take until 2021 to extricate ourselves from it. As we have been told many many times, there is no silver bullet, no pulling a rabbit out of our hat.

    This isn’t spin, it’s fact and it has been known since 2017 by many and 2018 by everyone. Some choosing not to acknowledge it doesn’t alter the fact that there are player contracts that hurt us until 2021. Changing the coaching staff will not change that fact.

    Go Dogs
     
  18. bullanth

    bullanth Forum Regular

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    Happy that the boys put 2 on the trot,pays record is still the worst of of all coaches bar Brennan,and better still happy to give credit were credits due,but there was still no strategy in defence or attack,in both games,we lost Tolman early in the game and with the utmost respect for the guy,we actually played better without him there.
     
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  19. wendog33

    wendog33 Kennel Enthusiast

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    Frog in a blender unco :grinning:
     
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  20. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    It’s better than Bellamy’s with any team other than a Melbourne (sorry, couldn’t resist).

    FWIW, Brennan just got the sack.

    Go Dogs
     
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