Trial and I’m worried

[COVENS]

Yes Jackson is finished, I was against his re-signing at the time and unfortunately it looks like I was right. He can defenitely play a role but that role isn't as a key player on big $$$ at our club. Yh the others were all bad. Burton probably isn't the weak point and more so TPJ like you mentioned but he still missed twice as many tackles as Jake despite both of them making the same amount for tackles. The right edge just gets targeted more close to the line because it's a total shambles, the other edge at least has JAC to baby sit his inside men lol.

TPJ is 100% a middle and he offers us far more in that role than being forced onto the edge. Jackson although he's slow and ineffective he's probably the best choice to start on an edge right now, we just have to improve our edge defence and he's surely no worse than what we have there now or potentially with Waddell. Topine also isn't getting a look in and I understand that he's undersized and need to get more minutes into in the lower grades but he's probably capable of playing that middle forward role that can distribute the ball that Baz wants.

Anyway we're pretty fucked, roster is still unbalanced but I can't help but feel Baz is only adding to the problems with his insistence on wanting to play a certain way

Where'd you get those MT stats? Just rewatched the game, struggled to find any??

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Where'd you get those MT stats? Just rewatched the game, struggled to find any??

Actually looks like they updated them since I last checked, down to two missed tackles and a few other things are different. I also could've remembered wrong lol. But yh all the trial stats are on the NRL site.

https://www.nrl.com/draw/pre-season-trials/2022/round-2/sharks-v-bulldogs/

 

[AlzzBulldog]

We need a decent ball playing lock, a link between fowards and backs, good sides reliazed this long ago.

We had one Asiata

 

[Bulldog1966]

As a fair few have said just lately Jacko is pretty much done I suggested something along that line last year, of course it's unpopular because he has been loyal and a stalwart etc but he is just an average solid player now, nothing more..
Contracted for next year and idk what happens with that minutes played wise with Kikau coming but it will definitely be his last year with us imo..

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Burton might actually be a weak point for now though as he defended in the centres last year - probably tough coming here defending at 5/8 for a shitter defensive team. But Yeah I would have Jackson on the edge purely for his defense. On paper you would think we lose a lot in attack without TPJ there but honestly he offers nothing on the edge - only (almost) positive he had was running the decoy that was an obstruction anyways lol he's much better in the middle. Prefer him in the front row and Thomo at lock.

If we do re-sign Jacko again it surely wouldn't be big bucks. He is not worth it. Maybe playing for a shit team the last 5 years has taken it all out of him, but we will see when the comp starts. I don't even rate him as a captain. He is a push over.

I 100% believe in Topine, we saw what he is capable of in his debut off the bench played almost 80mins at hooker (not where he trained) and he defended his ass off.

Not sure what solution is but the imbalance comes from having a shit hooker imo. Need someone to control the middle of the ruck and take pressure off our halves to always do something. Mahoney cannot come soon enough. Not saying he will solve everything, but he will sure things up through the middle. I still see the imbalance though. Can't have JAC sitting on an edge scratching his balls.

TPJ did run a good decoy for our only try tbf, Jake sucked in 3 defenders using him and put Burton straight into a hole. Even if TPJ plays in the middle where he belongs you can still push him wide at times.

Topine not getting any minutes in the trials was concerning, I think he could do a job at lock behind two powerful props and some support on the edges. Throw him in off the bench and he will be in everything.

Trent needs to be flexible though and stop trying to force us to play a certain way that simply isn't going to work anytime soon. We can't afford not to get results early, season is done if we're 0-2 to start the year

 

[Dognacious]

I guess its a concern we have TPJ, Thompson and Hetherington in the same pack. Fantastic if they all have a good game at the same time. But 3 of the hottest heads in the NRL. Between them they are likely to rack up double figures in weeks out this year due to suspension. Baz is gunna wanna focus more on discipline.

 

[billy beane]

9 penalties took a lot of our energy.


Always a Bulldog

This happens game after game after game.

Just about every 50/50 goes against, heaps of defense, fatigue, errors, allow points, get behind, force passes, more defense, 6 again etc ...

While all this is going on the opposition manage to play mostly penalty free footy.

Last season we received 80 penalties, conceding 130 , -50 differential. I would argue, many of ours were received late in games.

To those who say it is because we were bad, well ....

The Roosters were the second most penalised, receiving 104, conceding 133, -29 differential.

At the other end of the scale Souths the media darlings, received 142, conceding 95, 47 differential.

Six again set restarts, we were the most penalised with 115, surprise surprise !

The next most conceded were Melbourne with 95.

The best being Cronulla, only conceding 54.

So we have the bottom team and the minor premiers conceding the most, and a mid table team with the fewest !

It gets worse when breaking down the six again, as we conceded a massive 50 restarts for being inside the 10.

Melbourne were next worst with 34, then The Tigers with 27, most teams were in the 20/25 range.

Penrith were best with 16 in an entire season, which is very hard to believe considering you could find someone offside on every defensive play.

Could not find stats for six again received, (didn't look too hard ) but i am sure they would not make great reading.

So far in the trials we are copping it again, despite having a vastly different team.

6 nil (pen/ 6 again) conceded in the first half against Newcastle. Should of received an 8 point try. Received a few in the second half when the reserves were on, which is typical.

Last night we could have received the first penalty of the match for the Fox being run off the ball which was clear on replay, but nah. Several other 50/50 calls went against. Sharks do a clear cannonball, missed on field, player on report, no penalty. Two play the ball infringements, disallowed try with very minimal contact, forward pass called despite Cronulla throwing 3 or 4 which were not called. Marched 10 after a soft penalty, when i thought we were marginally on top, which ultimately led to a try and a huge momentum swing.

Is it playing badly that leads to penalties, or the penalties leading to bad play ? Probably a bit of both, but the stats above indicate that it is pretty random in terms of teams and ability.

Stats of this magnitude make it difficult to even get into an arm wrestle, let alone win.

This is not about making excuses, but rather a genuine concern, which is backed by the numbers.

For a team that has plenty of areas to fix, this sits at the very top for mine.

 

[Rassayri]

A wise man once said

Once you bid farewell to discipline you say goodbye to success

 

[Dogs Of War]

A wise man once said

Once you bid farewell to discipline you say goodbye to success

Thats all good and well. But getting ref's onside for your team is an art. I think that's what we are missing from our captain, how to change the narrative in a game when penalties start going against you even though both teams are doing the same thing.

When I played I was very good at working out how to spin that around so it worked for us, rather than against us. Whether that's having an ear into a teammate who is just too vocal on the field at the ref to shut the hell up. Having a word to the ref to ask why the penalty happened etc.

 

[CQDog]

Burton might actually be a weak point for now though as he defended in the centres last year - probably tough coming here defending at 5/8 for a shitter defensive team. But Yeah I would have Jackson on the edge purely for his defense. On paper you would think we lose a lot in attack without TPJ there but honestly he offers nothing on the edge - only (almost) positive he had was running the decoy that was an obstruction anyways lol he's much better in the middle. Prefer him in the front row and Thomo at lock.

If we do re-sign Jacko again it surely wouldn't be big bucks. He is not worth it. Maybe playing for a shit team the last 5 years has taken it all out of him, but we will see when the comp starts. I don't even rate him as a captain. He is a push over.

I 100% believe in Topine, we saw what he is capable of in his debut off the bench played almost 80mins at hooker (not where he trained) and he defended his ass off.

Not sure what solution is but the imbalance comes from having a shit hooker imo. Need someone to control the middle of the ruck and take pressure off our halves to always do something. Mahoney cannot come soon enough. Not saying he will solve everything, but he will sure things up through the middle. I still see the imbalance though. Can't have JAC sitting on an edge scratching his balls.

Topine’s work ethic in the small amount of games was crazy. He would always come on in 20 mins and make 19 tackles zero misses. I just need to see the bloke be given a chance in cup because covid has fucked everyone’s playing time and development. I would definitely trial topine at lock in cup because its the most needed position imo along with wing. Hopefully come 2023 we move jackson from the lock and onto edge or just the bench, he isnt a captain anymore, similar to james tamau at the tigers.

 

[Rassayri]

Thats all good and well. But getting ref's onside for your team is an art. I think that's what we are missing from our captain, how to change the narrative in a game when penalties start going against you even though both teams are doing the same thing.

When I played I was very good at working out how to spin that around so it worked for us, rather than against us. Whether that's having an ear into a teammate who is just too vocal on the field at the ref to shut the hell up. Having a word to the ref to ask why the penalty happened etc.

Maybe we should look at TPJ as captain at least he engages the ref Jackson has no idea

 

[diddly]

Topine’s work ethic in the small amount of games was crazy. He would always come on in 20 mins and make 19 tackles zero misses. I just need to see the bloke be given a chance in cup because covid has fucked everyone’s playing time and development. I would definitely trial topine at lock in cup because its the most needed position imo along with wing. Hopefully come 2023 we move jackson from the lock and onto edge or just the bench, he isnt a captain anymore, similar to james tamau at the tigers.

Must be a reason Topine hasnt been given any minutes in the fg trials.

 

[MitchNewton]

The issues aren’t team issues so this team needs time to gel excuse doesn’t wash. It’s individual errors such as knock ins, poor passes, missed tackles, not playing the ball correctly and I’ll discipline that shits and concerns me.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

The issues aren’t team issues so this team needs time to gel excuse doesn’t wash. It’s individual errors such as knock ins, poor passes, missed tackles, not playing the ball correctly and I’ll discipline that shits and concerns me.

I just dont understand how a first grade NRL player cannot play a ball properly.
They do this shit for a living day after day.
I wonder if playing the ball during training isnt a focus point, sloppy etc and not a consideration.
I just dont get it.
Heavily policed throughout the trials.

 

[Dogs Of War]

I just dont understand how a first grade NRL player cannot play a ball properly.
They do this shit for a living day after day.
I wonder if playing the ball during training isnt a focus point, sloppy etc and not a consideration.
I just dont get it.
Heavily policed throughout the trials.

It's always policed heavily in the preseason and the first 3-4 rounds before being ignored except for the most worst cases.

 

[Chris Harding]

The lack of intensity can be fixed, the Sharks gave them a lesson.
Last years last game team were better than last nights effort, Barrett can do it.
We need to get the ball to the wings fluently.

We've had a lot of those lessons over the past years, and still go out and do the same thing each game.

 

[Suave]

This happens game after game after game.

Just about every 50/50 goes against, heaps of defense, fatigue, errors, allow points, get behind, force passes, more defense, 6 again etc ...

While all this is going on the opposition manage to play mostly penalty free footy.

Last season we received 80 penalties, conceding 130 , -50 differential. I would argue, many of ours were received late in games.

To those who say it is because we were bad, well ....

The Roosters were the second most penalised, receiving 104, conceding 133, -29 differential.

At the other end of the scale Souths the media darlings, received 142, conceding 95, 47 differential.

Six again set restarts, we were the most penalised with 115, surprise surprise !

The next most conceded were Melbourne with 95.

The best being Cronulla, only conceding 54.

So we have the bottom team and the minor premiers conceding the most, and a mid table team with the fewest !

It gets worse when breaking down the six again, as we conceded a massive 50 restarts for being inside the 10.

Melbourne were next worst with 34, then The Tigers with 27, most teams were in the 20/25 range.

Penrith were best with 16 in an entire season, which is very hard to believe considering you could find someone offside on every defensive play.

Could not find stats for six again received, (didn't look too hard ) but i am sure they would not make great reading.

So far in the trials we are copping it again, despite having a vastly different team.

6 nil (pen/ 6 again) conceded in the first half against Newcastle. Should of received an 8 point try. Received a few in the second half when the reserves were on, which is typical.

Last night we could have received the first penalty of the match for the Fox being run off the ball which was clear on replay, but nah. Several other 50/50 calls went against. Sharks do a clear cannonball, missed on field, player on report, no penalty. Two play the ball infringements, disallowed try with very minimal contact, forward pass called despite Cronulla throwing 3 or 4 which were not called. Marched 10 after a soft penalty, when i thought we were marginally on top, which ultimately led to a try and a huge momentum swing.

Is it playing badly that leads to penalties, or the penalties leading to bad play ? Probably a bit of both, but the stats above indicate that it is pretty random in terms of teams and ability.

Stats of this magnitude make it difficult to even get into an arm wrestle, let alone win.

This is not about making excuses, but rather a genuine concern, which is backed by the numbers.

For a team that has plenty of areas to fix, this sits at the very top for mine.

Great post, you're 100% right. I think it's a combination of things that contributes to us getting penalized so regularly.
- We're a low IQ team. Many of the penalties we concede are completely unnecessary. Some definitely come from fatigue but I'm convinced if we had better on-field leadership this would be cleaned up a bit. Have a captain that actually makes players accountable on the field, gets them to focus, etc
- Which means that Jackson may not be the answer at captain. Didn't love what I saw from him in the trials and I'm not even talking about his on field play. Hasn't really mastered the skill of how to talk to a ref (and it is a skill) to influence these things a bit more. Plus he looks jaded and the season hasn't even started yet.
- Refs have a bias in their minds about a lot of our players because of prior suspensions, etc. Means they're bound to overreact to everything.
- Typically last placed teams cop the worst end of the stick with calls. Happens in every sport. We just have to rise above it.
- Teams know we're susceptible to penalties and milk the f*ck out of everything. Ref falls for it most times. Conversely, we're very bad at milking penalties. Like, woeful at it.

 

[2ndphase]

To me this needs to be done
Allen and Burns on one side cause Okunbor and Schouup have no idea those two are much safer options not to sure what to do about our 7 Cook needs to start over JMK TPJ needs to moved to the middle with Vaughan Jackson on the edge with Hetho and on the other and Thommo at lock and I guarantee we will see heaps of improvement our double Ds which are defending and discipline needs to be worked on as well if baz can’t change and sticks with last nites team then we have no hope

Jesus i ran out of breath reading that!

 

[billy beane]

Great post, you're 100% right. I think it's a combination of things that contributes to us getting penalized so regularly.
- We're a low IQ team. Many of the penalties we concede are completely unnecessary. Some definitely come from fatigue but I'm convinced if we had better on-field leadership this would be cleaned up a bit. Have a captain that actually makes players accountable on the field, gets them to focus, etc
- Which means that Jackson may not be the answer at captain. Didn't love what I saw from him in the trials and I'm not even talking about his on field play. Hasn't really mastered the skill of how to talk to a ref (and it is a skill) to influence these things a bit more. Plus he looks jaded and the season hasn't even started yet.
- Refs have a bias in their minds about a lot of our players because of prior suspensions, etc. Means they're bound to overreact to everything.
- Typically last placed teams cop the worst end of the stick with calls. Happens in every sport. We just have to rise above it.
- Teams know we're susceptible to penalties and milk the f*ck out of everything. Ref falls for it most times. Conversely, we're very bad at milking penalties. Like, woeful at it.

Thanks mate

I am not real keen on Jackson as captain either, but what are our options ?

Burton has more than enough on his plate. The Fox ... new player on the wing ???

Jackson virtually wins by default.

Agree with you about the low footy IQ and referee bias.

 

[Family Guy]

Thanks mate

I am not real keen on Jackson as captain either, but what are our options ?

Burton has more than enough on his plate. The Fox ... new player on the wing ???

Jackson virtually wins by default.

Agree with you about the low footy IQ and referee bias.

The captain should be the player that the other players respect and listen to. I don't think Jacko is that player. When was the last time you saw Jacko give his teammates a spray? If he did, would they really listen or give a crap?

I'd have JAC as the captain. I don't give a shit that he's new or a winger - it took him only 1 game, a trial game FFS, to give his teammates a spray for not doing what they should have learned to do in U6s. Good on him. That's what we need. More winners who don't tolerate mediocrity