Lock position debate

[Khan00]

Because he isn't the best lock, Jackson is. Tolman is 1 dimensional and we don't need him clogging up minutes. Woods, Klemmer and Tolman is also a very slow middle third. Playing Tolman at lock is a soft call and the only way i'll cop it is if our backrow is to weak to move Jackson there.

The question to the thread is not asking who the best lock is, your choice needs to be logical with what we have.
So where do you play tolman then?

Jacko is a gun backrower why fix it aint broke.

 

[flamebouyant]

Why is that gonads?

Because what he says is fact. 110%

 

[flamebouyant]

Shave 10 yrs off him and slot him in at 13 and ye maybe, but now at the backend of his career i dont know.. he'd need a complete overhaul on how he looks and how he plays

He is only 29 mate. Not old for a forward. Whats wrong with how he looks? Lol

 

[Apercots]

Shave 10 yrs off him and slot him in at 13 and ye maybe, but now at the backend of his career i dont know.. he'd need a complete overhaul on how he looks and how he plays

well Plastic surgery can change how he looks

 

[Khan00]

He is only 29 mate. Not old for a forward. Whats wrong with how he looks? Lol

I meant his build lol.
Oh my bad i thought he was on the other side of 30, stil think he needs time to mould into a modern day 13

 

[Khan00]

well Plastic surgery can change how he looks

Along with clippers and ink

 

[speedy2460]

It really is a no brainer. Tolman should be lock. He is not that big, and played well above his weight as prop. He tackled everything that moved and didnt miss any.
He will be suited to the 13, and can play 80 minutes if needed to do so. Klemmer, Woods and Fualolo will do the hit ups and Tolman will do the cleaning up.
He showed in a few games he can be creative. Jackson should remain in the 2nd row with Rhyse Martin.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

The question to the thread is not asking who the best lock is, your choice needs to be logical with what we have.
So where do you play tolman then?

Jacko is a gun backrower why fix it aint broke.

Tolman isn't the most logical but it's the easiest and softest call to make, at best he's a safe stop gap solution. But for me, Tolman's current skillset doesn't justify a starting position and big minutes with the players currently in the squad, he's just too 1 dimensional and doesn't compliment our Australian frontrow. He doesn't bring an offload, he's slow, no real footwork, no real ball playing ability, barnstorming runs, etc. He needs to bring more than below average runs and good defensive reads.

You just have to look at other teams and see what their locks bring to the table, the majority of them have that extra dimension. Mannering is probably the closest comparison of Tolman at lock, however Mannering brings an offload,some ball playing ability and even tries, Tolman doesn't.

Tolman is a bench player for me next season. We have 2 props that are better than him and i don't want him at lock for reasons i explained earlier, so he's a bench player. He also needs to sacrifice his engine for some size and power. He also needs to lift his intensity instead of trying to pace himself for a marathon all game. I also don't buy the whole "not an impact player" rubbish. If Tolman truly can't add any value off the bench then that's just another reason why he well and truly shouldn't be a starter for us.

 

[vegny]

Thats like quoting every premiership winning centre and saying we beed a centre like that. It could be any position.

The opposite of that actually mate. My point is we can get by with decent players in different positions but a very good lock is a must have to win the comp based on the trend of the past few years. Just as important as a good spine in my opinion.

 

[Khan00]

Tolman isn't the most logical but it's the easiest and softest call to make, at best he's a safe stop gap solution. But for me, Tolman's current skillset doesn't justify a starting position and big minutes with the players currently in the squad, he's just too 1 dimensional and doesn't compliment our Australian frontrow. He doesn't bring an offload, he's slow, no real footwork, no real ball playing ability, barnstorming runs, etc. He needs to bring more than below average runs and good defensive reads.

You just have to look at other teams and see what their locks bring to the table, the majority of them have that extra dimension. Mannering is probably the closest comparison of Tolman at lock, however Mannering brings an offload,some ball playing ability and even tries, Tolman doesn't.

Tolman is a bench player for me next season. We have 2 props that are better than him and i don't want him at lock for reasons i explained earlier, so he's a bench player. He also needs to sacrifice his engine for some size and power. He also needs to lift his intensity instead of trying to pace himself for a marathon all game. I also don't buy the whole "not an impact player" rubbish. If Tolman truly can't add any value off the bench then that's just another reason why he well and truly shouldn't be a starter for us.

Stop beating around the bush, he is the most logical atm he's on decent coin so he must be utilised accordingly and as a matter of fact he does have an offload in him also a good reader in defence with a big motor.

You can't just drop a player of his standard, not that he's a world beater or anything but he's a good honest forward used right.

You bag just about every player, pretty shit quality for someone that has an opinion on everything.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Stop beating around the bush, he is the most logical atm he's on decent coin so he must be utilised accordingly and as a matter of fact he does have an offload in him also a good reader in defence with a big motor.

You can't just drop a player of his standard, not that he's a world beater or anything but he's a good honest forward used right.

You bag just about every player, pretty shit quality for someone that has an opinion on everything.

He has a good offload? Hahahahahaha fuck off. You're literally making up bullshit now. In what universe does Tolman have a good offload? And so what he's on decent coin. That doesn't automatically mean he should get a starting spot or will offer more value than a lower paid player. You must also think Bmoz should be moved back to fb then following that logic???

i have defended Tolman multiple times on here, so don't you fucking dare say i bagged him. Tolman is an honest toiler that puts in 100% and will try all day while making great reads and cover tackles in defence, but thats it... i'm not going to ignore his limitations. He offers nothing in attack and lacks intensity, and that mainly comes down to his so called "engine" that people praise. He doesn't need that huge engine in todays game, he needs more of a physical presence or wider skillset.

Like i said before, Tolman is a the soft and easy choice for lock, not most logical. It's soft and easy because Pay knows Tolman will always show up and make his tackles, he's also experienced. But that's all he will bring unless Tolman makes a major change to his game or Pay pulls off some masterstroke tactically.

However the more logical choice is looking at what other top teams locks being to the table and seeing that Tolman doesn't bring enought of that. It's a riskier move considering we have a lot of inexperienced forwards and that it involves potentially moving a reliable edge forward in Jackson away from the edge, but the rewards are far higher

 

[Khan00]

Where in my post have i mentioned a "good" offload. He has it in him - big difference, and im sure des held him back along with others in that department.

Go back and read my post re tolman and absorb it, before coming back and having a fit.

Who are you actually debating with me or yourself? You frustrated little hermit.

Fkn clueless, yet he thinks he has a clue lol.

 

[speedy2460]

Lots of Tolman discussion. I think the main thing that should be decided is simply what do you expect a lock forward to do?
I believe the main role of a lock is to have a roaming commission behind the main defensive line. He is there to clean up the scraps that the others leave.
It would be an advantage to have someone with the necessary impact, but you cant have everything. I cannot see any other player in the Dogs group who
is better than Tolman at doing just that.
Some have potential, like RFM, Martin, Taluau, etc, but they are a risk. Tolman removes that risk.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Where in my post have i mentioned a "good" offload. He has it in him - big difference, and im sure des held him back along with others in that department.

Go back and read my post re tolman and absorb it, before coming back and having a fit.

Who are you actually debating with me or yourself? You frustrated little hermit.

Fkn clueless, yet he thinks he has a clue lol.

Blah blah blah. Piss of you fucking dog.

 

[Khan00]

Blah blah blah. Piss of you fucking dog.

Aaalll class! Lol

 

[Oatley Dog]

Lots of Tolman discussion. I think the main thing that should be decided is simply what do you expect a lock forward to do?
I believe the main role of a lock is to have a roaming commission behind the main defensive line. He is there to clean up the scraps that the others leave.
It would be an advantage to have someone with the necessary impact, but you cant have everything. I cannot see any other player in the Dogs group who
is better than Tolman at doing just that.
Some have potential, like RFM, Martin, Taluau, etc, but they are a risk. Tolman removes that risk.

Mate they haven't had a roaming role in defense for over a decade. They are a middle third player whose job it is to shore up the middle of the ruck area. In attack they take one hitup a set and if they can pop a ball out the back all the better. If you happen to be one of the best in the world like JT or Gallen a couple of years ago or Mannering then you might take a couple of hitups a set but you are expected to make 30+ tackles along the way. So the question is, do you want to use someone like JJ that way blunting his attacking skill with bigger D or do you want him covering in the centres and doing more work out wide. He can do both but you still have to have another player on the field doing one or the other that he doesn't do. Perhaps if Priest works out alright then he and Tolman are a good rotation in the lock position. He's big, hits pretty hard and runs with purpose.

 

[Khan00]

Lots of Tolman discussion. I think the main thing that should be decided is simply what do you expect a lock forward to do?
I believe the main role of a lock is to have a roaming commission behind the main defensive line. He is there to clean up the scraps that the others leave.
It would be an advantage to have someone with the necessary impact, but you cant have everything. I cannot see any other player in the Dogs group who
is better than Tolman at doing just that.
Some have potential, like RFM, Martin, Taluau, etc, but they are a risk. Tolman removes that risk.

Exactly.
The modern day lock is the total package but in our circumstances tolman is the ideal option whether we like it or not unfortunately. At the end of the day he goes about his business with dedication and till a better option is available and tolmans future becomes more clear hopefully not with us (with respect) he's the logical choice for me.

 

[Alan79]

Where in my post have i mentioned a "good" offload. He has it in him - big difference, and im sure des held him back along with others in that department.

Go back and read my post re tolman and absorb it, before coming back and having a fit.

Who are you actually debating with me or yourself? You frustrated little hermit.

Fkn clueless, yet he thinks he has a clue lol.

I had to click show ignored users to see who you were arguing with Khan. At some point in every kennelers life I think everyone has to put Gotenks on ignore. His own opinion is the only one he believes is right and as you can see already if he can't bully you into deserting your opinion he'll resort to baiting and insulting you. The forums are a better place to be since i put him on ignore.

 

[Dogna88]

Tolman gets a clean slate for me this year. As does Mbye, as does Lichaa.

Des hampered alot of the players abilities and moulded them accordingly....

 

[Khan00]

I had to click show ignored users to see who you were arguing with Khan. At some point in every kennelers life I think everyone has to put Gotenks on ignore. His own opinion is the only one he believes is right and as you can see already if he can't bully you into deserting your opinion he'll resort to baiting and insulting you. The forums are a better place to be since i put him on ignore.

Haha!
He is definitely a piece of work, goodluck to him for whatever makes him happy.
I banned myself frm the kennel, it was the only way to restrain myself from creatures like him, but im back and probably not for a long as alot of stuff i read makes me almost puke lol.