Lock position debate

Who do you want to be Canterburys lock for the coming 2018 season?


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Dingo

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Trying to figure out our best backrow is extremely exhausting
 

Nasheed

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Holland??? Montoya is 3x better all round than than catch and run straight holland...
Frawley at lock who will get run over by other forwards.

Surely your having a laugh? Right?
What’s holland ever done wrong?

Great kicker and finisher. Speed to burn.
Amazes me how everyone can worship el Masri then rubbish Holland in the next sentence.

Montoya is good too but all things being equal Holland is a world class goalkicker, no one else in the team is.

Frawley in the forwards is about creating a sporadic and dynamic attacking force. At any point we can have four ball players creating an attacking momentum. We tried the prop in the 13 now let’s try the creative 13. I strongly doubt Frawley will make our forwards defensively weak.
I am happy for hoppa to try out as the 13 but I am NOT advocating both hoppa and Frawley in the pack same time for that reason.

Besides, a little bit of off season bulking and Frawley will have tackle busting ability anyway.
 

flamebouyant

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If I was the coach this is my lineup:

1 mbye
2 Morris
3 Norris
4 Hopoate
5 Holland
6 Foran
7 Cleeland
8 Woods
9 fu Brown
10 Tolman
11 Jackson
12 Elliott
13 Frawley
-
14 RFM
15 klemmer
16 beastwood
17 unidentifiable utility backline player

That is an amazingly potent 17.
Sparks could start from anywhere on ten field and enough grunt in the forwards, and we will be more mobile of not smaller.
The idea would be have Frawley, tolman and Jackson play 80 minutes and let woods and klemmer rotate constantly for maximum power and the second rower change once.

Unidentifiable backline player more cover than anything.
The scary thing is none of our forwards besides Frawley and maybe klemmer can slog into the backline if required.

Perhaps Lichaa should be nine and fu the 17?
Or they can play off For the opening spot.
I missed your posts mate. Lol is that chuck norris in the centres? Great idea.
The idea of holland on the wing is a constant for you, but you seem to be the only one on the entire forum who thinks this. In any case, montoya is all class. He had a massive breakout year, and played well for fiji in the world cup. He thoroughly deserves his place. Dont expect to see holland in the side all year unless for injuries. And brenko is way ahead of him in this case anyway.
Frawley for lock? Not a chance. I see your train of thought, ie greg bird, wade graham etc, but frawley is not in the same hemisphere. For starters his defense is aweful!! In my opinion he is a big part of the reason brenko failed in this department as he was defending outside frawley who was a liability. You cant just throw a half in at lock because you want a ballplayer. Your lock has to be an uncomprimising, tough as nails, great defender. Frawley is none of these. Fringe first grader at best.
Also, there is no chance on earth we are going through the season undefeated mate. Im confident we will do well, but if melbourne couldnt do it this year, no team is a chance to do it next year.
 

flamebouyant

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What’s holland ever done wrong?

Great kicker and finisher. Speed to burn.
Amazes me how everyone can worship el Masri then rubbish Holland in the next sentence.

Montoya is good too but all things being equal Holland is a world class goalkicker, no one else in the team is.

Frawley in the forwards is about creating a sporadic and dynamic attacking force. At any point we can have four ball players creating an attacking momentum. We tried the prop in the 13 now let’s try the creative 13. I strongly doubt Frawley will make our forwards defensively weak.
I am happy for hoppa to try out as the 13 but I am NOT advocating both hoppa and Frawley in the pack same time for that reason.

Besides, a little bit of off season bulking and Frawley will have tackle busting ability anyway.
Lol just lol holland shanks them all the time. Whereas elmasri is the best goalkicker our game has ever seen. He also played SOO and for australia, which holland will never ever do. And by the way, holland has absolutely no speed to burn mate. Couldnt chase down a tortoise with a tail wind down hill.
 

Khan00

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Lol just lol holland shanks them all the time. Whereas elmasri is the best goalkicker our game has ever seen. He also played SOO and for australia, which holland will never ever do. And by the way, holland has absolutely no speed to burn mate. Couldnt chase down a tortoise with a tail wind down hill.
He obviously comes on after a good smoke lol speed to burn and world class haha
 

ILiveForDib

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What’s holland ever done wrong?

Great kicker and finisher. Speed to burn.
Amazes me how everyone can worship el Masri then rubbish Holland in the next sentence.

Montoya is good too but all things being equal Holland is a world class goalkicker, no one else in the team is.

Frawley in the forwards is about creating a sporadic and dynamic attacking force. At any point we can have four ball players creating an attacking momentum. We tried the prop in the 13 now let’s try the creative 13. I strongly doubt Frawley will make our forwards defensively weak.
I am happy for hoppa to try out as the 13 but I am NOT advocating both hoppa and Frawley in the pack same time for that reason.

Besides, a little bit of off season bulking and Frawley will have tackle busting ability anyway.
I agree the kennels retarded. Hollands world class kicker... phhhhhh fuck yea.

Shite nasheeds brother hacked my account....
 

ILiveForDib

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If I was the coach this is my lineup:

1 mbye
2 Morris
3 Norris
4 Hopoate
5 Holland
6 Foran
7 Cleeland
8 Woods
9 fu Brown
10 Tolman
11 Jackson
12 Elliott
13 Frawley
-
14 RFM
15 klemmer
16 beastwood
17 unidentifiable utility backline player

That is an amazingly potent 17.
Sparks could start from anywhere on ten field and enough grunt in the forwards, and we will be more mobile of not smaller.
The idea would be have Frawley, tolman and Jackson play 80 minutes and let woods and klemmer rotate constantly for maximum power and the second rower change once.

Unidentifiable backline player more cover than anything.
The scary thing is none of our forwards besides Frawley and maybe klemmer can slog into the backline if required.

Perhaps Lichaa should be nine and fu the 17?
Or they can play off For the opening spot.
Reckon klemmer should be at centre
 

Nasheed

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Lol just lol holland shanks them all the time. Whereas elmasri is the best goalkicker our game has ever seen. He also played SOO and for australia, which holland will never ever do. And by the way, holland has absolutely no speed to burn mate. Couldnt chase down a tortoise with a tail wind down hill.
Holland kicked 24/30 this year. Almost all were from out wide!

Thats 80%

El Masri 'the greatest goalkicker our game has ever seen' kicked at 81% careerwise.

1% is nothing, so if you feel El masri was the GOAT, then Holland as a kicker is his equal or just falls behind in a tiebreak.

Either way, 80% in the NRL from the sidelines is WORLD CLASS!
 

Nasheed

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I missed your posts mate. Lol is that chuck norris in the centres? Great idea.
The idea of holland on the wing is a constant for you, but you seem to be the only one on the entire forum who thinks this. In any case, montoya is all class. He had a massive breakout year, and played well for fiji in the world cup. He thoroughly deserves his place. Dont expect to see holland in the side all year unless for injuries. And brenko is way ahead of him in this case anyway.
Frawley for lock? Not a chance. I see your train of thought, ie greg bird, wade graham etc, but frawley is not in the same hemisphere. For starters his defense is aweful!! In my opinion he is a big part of the reason brenko failed in this department as he was defending outside frawley who was a liability. You cant just throw a half in at lock because you want a ballplayer. Your lock has to be an uncomprimising, tough as nails, great defender. Frawley is none of these. Fringe first grader at best.
Also, there is no chance on earth we are going through the season undefeated mate. Im confident we will do well, but if melbourne couldnt do it this year, no team is a chance to do it next year.
Interesting POV.
I was adamant that Frawley should be our 13 but now wondering if there's some holes in my theory after reading this.
 

flamebouyant

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Holland kicked 24/30 this year. Almost all were from out wide!

Thats 80%

El Masri 'the greatest goalkicker our game has ever seen' kicked at 81% careerwise.

1% is nothing, so if you feel El masri was the GOAT, then Holland as a kicker is his equal or just falls behind in a tiebreak.

Either way, 80% in the NRL from the sidelines is WORLD CLASS!
First of all, evolution is real. Even in sport. This is why you can never compare players from different eras. Bob Fulton and Wally Lewis were both 5/8ths, and both are immortals. But who was better? You cant really say. Wally lewus is the king of origin, but origin was not around when Fultan played. At least not how its been played since the 80's. Players are also constantly improving along with training methods, sports science etc etc. Even 10-15 years is a long time in the current game.
Elmasri playe from 1996-2009. He played 317 games, a record for a canterbury player. He scored 159 tries for us (im pretty sure thats the record for a canterbury player too) and kicked 891/1087 goals @ 81.97%.
If Kerrid Holland manages to play more then 300 games, score at least 150 tries, and kicks at least 700 goals, perhaps then, and only then can you possibly try and compare the two. Kicking 24/30 goals does not make you a world class kicker. Some players have a 100% success rate. 1/1. Heck, maybe even 2/2, or 3/3. Maybe even 10/10. But being the best goal kicker bar none, for your entire career, and then finishing as the leading goalkicker, and pointscore of all time is what makes you a great!!! A BULLDOGS LEGEND!!!
So dont even try and compare the two. Its not the first time that you have done so either. And to be honest, and i think plenty of people would agree, its completely inacurate, and to be honest, even a little offensive.
 

Nasheed

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First of all, evolution is real. Even in sport. This is why you can never compare players from different eras. Bob Fulton and Wally Lewis were both 5/8ths, and both are immortals. But who was better? You cant really say. Wally lewus is the king of origin, but origin was not around when Fultan played. At least not how its been played since the 80's. Players are also constantly improving along with training methods, sports science etc etc. Even 10-15 years is a long time in the current game.
Elmasri playe from 1996-2009. He played 317 games, a record for a canterbury player. He scored 159 tries for us (im pretty sure thats the record for a canterbury player too) and kicked 891/1087 goals @ 81.97%.
If Kerrid Holland manages to play more then 300 games, score at least 150 tries, and kicks at least 700 goals, perhaps then, and only then can you possibly try and compare the two. Kicking 24/30 goals does not make you a world class kicker. Some players have a 100% success rate. 1/1. Heck, maybe even 2/2, or 3/3. Maybe even 10/10. But being the best goal kicker bar none, for your entire career, and then finishing as the leading goalkicker, and pointscore of all time is what makes you a great!!! A BULLDOGS LEGEND!!!
So dont even try and compare the two. Its not the first time that you have done so either. And to be honest, and i think plenty of people would agree, its completely inacurate, and to be honest, even a little offensive.
However that isnt my argument that Holland and El Masri are equal.

I simply justified why in my opinion I think Holland deserves a run on spot? Thats all I set out to do first and foremost.

Now set aside the above.

Below is the sidebet.

The statistical evidence I cited was because of the comment saying not to compare El Masris goalkicking with Holland because El Masri was the greatest, when in reality they are actually statistically EQUAL.

You can adjust for kicking evolution or argue the small details, but thats just not needed as the underlying message I was trying to convey, is that too many people have underrated Holland or simply do not realise he is actually a really decent goalkicker.
 
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EB18

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Danny faualalo should be our starting lock
 

EB18

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Always start your best.. fuck impact off the bench, klemmer woods jackson rfm and danny f should be our starting pack
 

flamebouyant

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However that isnt my argument that Holland and El Masri are equal.

I simply justified why in my opinion I think Holland deserves a run on spot? Thats all I set out to do first and foremost.

Now set aside the above.

Below is the sidebet.

The statistical evidence I cited was because of the comment saying not to compare El Masris goalkicking with Holland because El Masri was the greatest, when in reality they are actually statistically EQUAL.

You can adjust for kicking evolution or argue the small details, but thats just not needed as the underlying message I was trying to convey, is that too many people have underrated Holland or simply do not realise he is actually a really decent goalkicker.
What do you mean that your argument is not that holland is equal??? You said 'holland is his equal, if not falls just behind on a tiebreak'. And rubbish to 'they are statistically equal'. THEYRE NOT!!!!! hazem kicked 891/1087 compared to 24/30. How in any way is that statistically equal. Its not even fucking close!!!!
You simply can bot compare the two. So stop trying.
Im not saying Holland cant kick goals, he can. but thats about all he offers the team. Sure he scored a few tries this year, but he didnt create them himself. He wasnt fending off 2 or 3 players, stepping another and then running 80m to score. He was catching a ball and running 5, 10 or 20m and scoring in the corner.
Why dont you do some research and comoare his stats to montoya, brenko lee and Bmoz for the year.
 

Dingo

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Holland kicked 24/30 this year. Almost all were from out wide!

Thats 80%

El Masri 'the greatest goalkicker our game has ever seen' kicked at 81% careerwise.

1% is nothing, so if you feel El masri was the GOAT, then Holland as a kicker is his equal or just falls behind in a tiebreak.

Either way, 80% in the NRL from the sidelines is WORLD CLASS!
Please stop comparing Holland to El Masri you're embarrassing yourself.
 

Nasheed

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Please stop comparing Holland to El Masri you're embarrassing yourself.
Both goalkicking wingers, both (if the forum is correct about Holland) are otherwise bland wingers. Full stop.
 

Nasheed

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Im not saying Holland cant kick goals, he can. but thats about all he offers the team. Sure he scored a few tries this year, but he didnt create them himself. He wasnt fending off 2 or 3 players, stepping another and then running 80m to score. He was catching a ball and running 5, 10 or 20m and scoring in the corner.
Why dont you do some research and comoare his stats to montoya, brenko lee and Bmoz for the year.
At present, we have only three top grade wingers in the squad.

Bmoz, Montoya and Holland.

I dont think we will ever drop Brett, so the remaining wing spot goes to either Montoya or Holland.

I like Holland and I also like Montoya.

Hence why a few posts ago I singled out Lee and Montoya as our only depth players who can easily play first grade.

I just think Hollands a better player than Montoya. Even if i think they are equal, Hollands kicking is invaluable.

Montoya has alot of speed and can get under the high ball well.

Holland has alot of speed too (granted not as much as Montoya),The only thing Holland lacks is a bit of muscle and aggro. but he is very positionally aware, safe, and can use his brain to find the line in tight corners, and is an 80% kicker, in a team that has no other real kicker.

I dont even really understand why its so controversial to be honest.

Plenty of times Holland beat Montoya for the 5 jersey this year.
 
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