Lock position debate

[Dogna88]

Klemmer and woods must start. Will be similar to the Kasiano situation.

Then for me. Tolman has to be lock. Waste on the bench. And he wont be in reserves

 

[flamebouyant]

Depends what sort of lock we want - an 80 min workhorse, a ball player or someone who defends with a bit more grunt but plays shorter minutes. Personally I like the latter and Jackson is the man for me. Jackson's strength isn't edge running. He can throw a good long pass but doesn't off-load in traffic well on the edge (or was that just Des telling him to be conservative?) But the way he plugged the middle in origin 1 this year as a lock, sold me. I can't see many teams getting through our middle with JJ at lock - every tackle is quality. Might play a few less minutes but who cares. I don't think Tolman is a cert for the team anywhere, regardless of what we're paying him. For me he has to earn aspot and lock would be a waste - no penetration in attack and doesn't hurt in defence. Get a young guy in there and let Tolman find a new club unless he proves he can play a lot better than he has been.

I agree that jackson would be a great lock, but i disagree in regards to tolman. Sure he doesnt set the world on fire, but he is a prop who can play 80 mins. This is extremely rare, and its becoming more important in the modern game. He is not the biggest hitter, but he is tireless in defense, and very rarely misses a tackle. Personally i think haslers game plan was the problem. And from this many people became tolman haters. He doesnt need to earn his position!! He deserves to be in the team somewhere, 100%. But he doesnt offer a lot of impact iff the bench, and therefore he must start in my opinion. But with klem and woods up front the only other option is lock. I think he could do really well there too.

 

[flamebouyant]

If anyone but woods, tolman or klemmer start at lock. Means one of the 3 go to the bench. Woods and Tolman arnt high impact players.... i could settle for...

8. Tolman
9. Lichaa
10. Woods
11. Elliot
12. Martin
13. Jackson

14. Klemmer
15. Eastwood
16. RFM
17. Fualalo

That would be one of the highest impact benches in the comp... or even

8. Tolman
9. Lichaa
10. Woods
11. Jackson
12. Elliot
13. Eastwood

14. Klemmer
15. RFM
16. Fualalo
17. Brown

Thats just rediculous. Either way you want to start our starting australian front rower on the bench?? For what? Impact? You start your best players. Period. Just means you need to find some good backups for the bench.

 

[Dogna88]

Thats just rediculous. Either way you want to start our starting australian front rower on the bench?? For what? Impact? You start your best players. Period. Just means you need to find some good backups for the bench.

First preference is tolman at lock as discussed earlier.

Reality is woods, klemmer and tolman will be in the 17. If jackson/eastwood are chosen at lock, tolman needs to be starting prop as he isnt an impact player.

"Bench" players are not what they use to be. They change games, swing momentum and can play upto 50 minutes. If Jackson/eastwood are lock, klemmer offers far more impact than woods or tolman.

Name your 8 to 17 and try fit the pieces together. It is all going to depend on the type of game plan Pay wants.

 

[_G-Dog_]

Tolman .
Reasons:
Hes not an edge forward
Not a prop - doesnt get over advantage line
He has a high workrate
He can play big minutes
Hes a tackling machine & rarely misses
He has a big motor

Hes just a workaholic ideal to the lock position

 

[flamebouyant]

First preference is tolman at lock as discussed earlier.

Reality is woods, klemmer and tolman will be in the 17. If jackson/eastwood are chosen at lock, tolman needs to be starting prop as he isnt an impact player.

"Bench" players are not what they use to be. They change games, swing momentum and can play upto 50 minutes. If Jackson/eastwood are lock, klemmer offers far more impact than woods or tolman.

Name your 8 to 17 and try fit the pieces together. It is all going to depend on the type of game plan Pay wants.

I hear what your saying, and i agree that tolman is not a bench player as he adds no impact from there, but klemmer can not, and will not be on the bench. Its like suggesting the cowboys play taumalolo off the bench because he has so much impact.
My 17 is as follows.

1. Mbye
2. Bmoz
3. Jmoz
4. Hopoate
5. Montoya
6. Cleeland
7. Foran
8. Woods
9. Lichaa
10. Klemmer
11. Jackson
12. Elliot/martin
13. Tolman

14. Brown
15. Elliot/martin
16. Fualalo
17. RFM

 

[flamebouyant]

Tolman .
Reasons:
Hes not an edge forward
Not a prop - doesnt get over advantage line
He has a high workrate
He can play big minutes
Hes a tackling machine & rarely misses
He has a big motor

Hes just a workaholic ideal to the lock position

Totally agree

 

[Dogzzz of War]

Elliot would struggle defending in the middle. Jacko is an edge player at the moment.
Tolman is the only logical choice for me.

 

[ILiveForDib]

1. Mbye
2. B moz
3. J moz
4. Hopoate
5. Montoya
6. This is a difficult position. Many people dislike Frawley and so do I but I think des impacted his playing ability. I would go with Cleeland though.
7. Foran
8. Woods
9. Lichaa
10. Klemmer
11. Rfm
12. Rhyse Martin
13. Jackson

14. Brown
15. Elliot
16. Fualolo
17. TOLMAN

Tolman needs to bulk up in the of season. I don't know whether the man name who shall not be said impacted him. We're going to have to experiment.

 

[KLil]

Fcuk we got some depth next yr if Tualau, fualalo, eastwood, tolman, elliot, ogden and priest are fighting for a spot.


My preffered bench depending on form would be..

14. Tolman ( could be our scott bolton )
15. Tualau
16. RFM
17. Fualalo

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I agree that jackson would be a great lock, but i disagree in regards to tolman. Sure he doesnt set the world on fire, but he is a prop who can play 80 mins. This is extremely rare, and its becoming more important in the modern game. He is not the biggest hitter, but he is tireless in defense, and very rarely misses a tackle. Personally i think haslers game plan was the problem. And from this many people became tolman haters. He doesnt need to earn his position!! He deserves to be in the team somewhere, 100%. But he doesnt offer a lot of impact iff the bench, and therefore he must start in my opinion. But with klem and woods up front the only other option is lock. I think he could do really well there too.

80 low intensity minutes, no real value in that.

 

[JUNKYARD DOGS]

Id go Jackson.
Personally, If Tolman isnt in the starting side he cant be on the bench.
I 'd have Woods and Klemmer starting Props, so doesnt look good for Tolman. But id have him there somewhere though, does alot of work. So if Jacko not lock Tolman.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

First preference is tolman at lock as discussed earlier.

Reality is woods, klemmer and tolman will be in the 17. If jackson/eastwood are chosen at lock, tolman needs to be starting prop as he isnt an impact player.

"Bench" players are not what they use to be. They change games, swing momentum and can play upto 50 minutes. If Jackson/eastwood are lock, klemmer offers far more impact than woods or tolman.

Name your 8 to 17 and try fit the pieces together. It is all going to depend on the type of game plan Pay wants.

Don't agree at all, bench players are just bench players. They're there to come on and maintain the intensity while your guns rest and aren't required to play big minutes at all.

Woods and Klemmer are our best props while Jackson is our best lock, these 3 will compliment each other perfectly. Jackson will also get to float around the field a little more and use some of his ball skills like Jake Trbojevic at manly. This is far more valuable than having Tolman just clog up minutes, they only reason it wouldn't happen is if Pay decided our edges are too weak and doesn't want to move Jackson.

Tolman needs to sacrifice his "engine" for more power. There's no point in having a bloke play a bunch of low intensity minutes. Atm he looks like he's pacinf himself for a marathon and we don't need that.

 

[flamebouyant]

80 low intensity minutes, no real value in that.

You do realise that not every single player in the team is a star every single game right?? Without a player like tolman in our team, other players dont have the chance to shine. tolman gives time to the players around him. I cant believe you cant see the value he offers the team. He wont win us games single handedly, but he still makes a big contribution.

 

[Oatley Dog]

It is an interesting problem to have. Some think Tolman doesn't offer anything in the middle I'm not so sure about that. Some think JJ would kill it in the middle - I'm sure he would but is that the best thing for the team - not so sure about that. then there are the young blokes - each have their positives and negatives. Elliott - maybe, maybe not. RFM - not there yet. The others haven't played FG yet. Eastwood - been there before and not excelled. Much has to do with what Pay wants from his pack. Is it going to be about size and rotation? Is it going to be about skill and speed with a couple of boppers? The other great unknown is to what extent the previous gameplan stifled the creativity and ability of our forwards in particular. When Tolman first hit the club he had a bit of a step a reasonable offload and ran with purpose. Has he just aged or was he doing what he was told. Look at Jammer. He is a different player again with the Pommies. Is it unreasonable to think most of our players will be the same with Des gone?

 

[CrittaMagic69]

You do realise that not every single player in the team is a star every single game right?? Without a player like tolman in our team, other players dont have the chance to shine. tolman gives time to the players around him. I cant believe you cant see the value he offers the team. He wont win us games single handedly, but he still makes a big contribution.

I have always been a fan of Tolman, but the bloke is so ineffective running the ball these days, and yes defensively he makes his tackles and is very good at reading the attack, but again they lack impact. Your starting forwards need to offer more than just low intensity minutes, so again i will say he offers no real value clogging up big minutes.

Look at all the other big minute middle forwards, they offer so much more and that is why they are out on the field for so long. Mannering, Gallen, Trbojevic, Taumalolo, etc..they all bring something extra to the table than just having an engine.

Jackson can do what Tolman does in defense and offer so much more. Jacksons stronger, faster, more skillful, hits harder, etc. That there is real value, not Tolmans low intensity long minutes.

 

[MR SS]

1. mbye
2. B moz
3. J moz
4. hopa
5. Montoya
6. foran
7. hastings
8. Woods
9. Lichaa
10. Klemmer
11. Rfm
12. Rhyse Martin
13. Jackson

14. Brown
15. Elliot
16. Fualolo/francis
17. TOLMAN

 

[Malla]

If only we kept Finucane

 

[vegny]

Just checked the last 4 locks to win the premiership - sam burgess, taumalolo, gallen and finucane. The first 3 are great forwards in the last few years in my opinion. Finucane was in great form this year.
My point is we need someone who can have a big impact on games to match them. Not just making 40 50 tackles a game. The way taumalolo plays, the difinition of spine might have to be changed soon.
Thats just my view. And i dunno if we have anyone that can play like those guys.

 

[vegny]

Just checked the last 4 locks to win the premiership - sam burgess, taumalolo, gallen and finucane. The first 3 are great forwards in the last few years in my opinion. Finucane was in great form this year.
My point is we need someone who can have a big impact on games to match them. Not just making 40 50 tackles a game. The way taumalolo plays, the difinition of spine might have to be changed soon.
Thats just my view. And i dunno if we have anyone that can play like those guys.

Sorry. Just read gotenks saying similar point