Coronavirus.

[Hacky McAxe]

Our Govts, of all persuasions, entrust and outsource the country's security needs for all kinds of tasks eg jails, Manus Island, 150 (apparently?) guarding the Sri Lankan family of 4 on Christmas Is., Centelink and Medicare Offices, airports, defence bases, both land and ports. There was no real dereliction of duty on behalf of the Victorian Govt when the use of private security is common practice these days.

The real problem seems to be the sub contracting then further sub contracting involving 3 companies, which the original security firm let out with no supervision, training or accountability.

Agreed. It's a contractual issue too. On government security tenders they require you to provide a full list of any sub-contractors you are using. If these weren't listed then it's a breach of contract.

 

[Dawgfather]

Lets hope it has more powers than the Ruby Princess enquiry where the PM said at a pc that all Federal Govt employees and Depts would fully co-operate, then proceeded to ban any Fed public servants from giving evidence and have produced redacted departmental reports!

Disgusting, I had no idea this had happened. I'm a conservative voter, but the idea that public servants should not be accountable to the public is ridiculous (no matter which side of politics does it).

 

[Dawgfather]

Agreed. It's a contractual issue too. On government security tenders they require you to provide a full list of any sub-contractors you are using. If these weren't listed then it's a breach of contract.

Without going into the details of my work, I've dealt with these issues of contracting/subcontracting and the legalities of them for years.

Just because a Principal issues a contract which stipulates that no sub-contracting is to occur, does not necessarily absolve that principal from their obligations to third parties who rely on the services of the initial contracting party.

In simply english - just because the government told the security contractor that no sub-contracting was to occur, does not absolve the government from negligence claims (and guilt in the eyes of the public) because they should have realised that blindly issuing a contract to a private security contractor and placing all the risk on that private company was fraught with danger.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

View attachment 16309

One of the funniest things I've seen surrounding conspiracy theories is the Area 51/Roswell crash conspiracy.

It was always a big thing about a crashed alien spaceship that the government covered up claiming it was a weather balloon. The truth came out when the government files became declassified a few years back.

It turned out that the spacecraft/weather balloon was actually a giant metallic looking balloon that the US airforce designed to attempt to pick up Russian radio signals, and also to spy on the American public radio conversations as they believed there were people helping Russian spies. But it went further than that.

These balloons were impossible to control. They would catch wind and blow all around the country and they had no way of tracking them. The alien spaceship conspiracy was already starting to spread so the government used it. They started spreading conspiracies themselves and set up hotlines pretending to be fellow conspiracy theorists and asking people to report UFO sightings. If anyone reported it then the military would turn up to see if it was one of their crashed surveillance balloons. This lead to the whole "men in black suits" thing.

They considered encouraging belief in aliens to be less dangerous than telling the public that they were intercepting their radio conversations and effectively spying on them.

 

[The DoggFather]

One of the funniest things I've seen surrounding conspiracy theories is the Area 51/Roswell crash conspiracy.

It was always a big thing about a crashed alien spaceship that the government covered up claiming it was a weather balloon. The truth came out when the government files became declassified a few years back.

It turned out that the spacecraft/weather balloon was actually a giant metallic looking balloon that the US airforce designed to attempt to pick up Russian radio signals, and also to spy on the American public radio conversations as they believed there were people helping Russian spies. But it went further than that.

These balloons were impossible to control. They would catch wind and blow all around the country and they had no way of tracking them. The alien spaceship conspiracy was already starting to spread so the government used it. They started spreading conspiracies themselves and set up hotlines pretending to be fellow conspiracy theorists and asking people to report UFO sightings. If anyone reported it then the military would turn up to see if it was one of their crashed surveillance balloons. This lead to the whole "men in black suits" thing.

They considered encouraging belief in aliens to be less dangerous than telling the public that they were intercepting their radio conversations and effectively spying on them.

My educated guess that UFOs are literally UFOs, more than likely secret government/military aircraft.

If I were developing military craft I certainly wouldn't want anyone sticking their nose in.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Without going into the details of my work, I've dealt with these issues of contracting/subcontracting and the legalities of them for years.

Just because a Principal issues a contract which stipulates that no sub-contracting is to occur, does not necessarily absolve that principal from their obligations to third parties who rely on the services of the initial contracting party.

In simply english - just because the government told the security contractor that no sub-contracting was to occur, does not absolve the government from negligence claims (and guilt in the eyes of the public) because they should have realised that blindly issuing a contract to a private security contractor and placing all the risk on that private company was fraught with danger.

Of course not. I handle the same sort of stuff every day.

There are layers of it and it all depends on the contract wording. That's just one part of it though. If the contract stated that no sub-contractors are to be used with approval of the principal then using a sub-contractor is a breach of contract. But it doesn't absolve the principal of any liability as it depends what other factors they agreed to or what else they put in the contract. For example, if there was no stipulation of a government representative to oversee the project, then the security company is the primary contractor and all fault falls on them for not meeting the contract. That said, from my work with government I can say that there's only a tiny chance that happened. In all likelihood there was a project manager involved from the government. If that's the case and he signed the documents then a lot will fall back on him. But there's also any advisory firm involved who could take some of the blame. And in the end if the main contractor advised the government rep that they were meeting all aspects of the contract, then it once again falls back on the main contractor for not meeting the contract terms.

Without knowing the full terms of the contract, there's no way of knowing 100% who was at fault. But that's what the inquiry is for.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

My educated guess that UFOs are literally UFOs, more than likely secret government/military aircraft.

If I were developing military craft I certainly wouldn't want anyone sticking their nose in.

I think it was Stephen Hawking who said, "any aliens who were advanced enough to travel to our planet would be so advanced that we would mean nothing to them. We would be less than ants. And if they didn't want to be seen then we wouldn't ever have any chance of seeing them"

 

[Dawgfather]

Of course not. I handle the same sort of stuff every day.

There are layers of it and it all depends on the contract wording. That's just one part of it though. If the contract stated that no sub-contractors are to be used with approval of the principal then using a sub-contractor is a breach of contract. But it doesn't absolve the principal of any liability as it depends what other factors they agreed to or what else they put in the contract. For example, if there was no stipulation of a government representative to oversee the project, then the security company is the primary contractor and all fault falls on them for not meeting the contract. That said, from my work with government I can say that there's only a tiny chance that happened. In all likelihood there was a project manager involved from the government. If that's the case and he signed the documents then a lot will fall back on him. But there's also any advisory firm involved who could take some of the blame. And in the end if the main contractor advised the government rep that they were meeting all aspects of the contract, then it once again falls back on the main contractor for not meeting the contract terms.

Without knowing the full terms of the contract, there's no way of knowing 100% who was at fault. But that's what the inquiry is for.

There is the legalities of the matter but tbh the public don't care for these games of snakes and ladders.

At the end of the day the entire state of victoria is now effectively shut down, and people know the buck stops with the government who were responsible for hotel quarantine (including the performance and/or non performance) of their security contractors.

 

[The DoggFather]

I think it was Stephen Hawking who said, "any aliens who were advanced enough to travel to our planet would be so advanced that we would mean nothing to them. We would be less than ants. And if they didn't want to be seen then we wouldn't ever have any chance of seeing them"

Damn right, agree 100%

 

[south of heaven]

You mean the flu with a fancy name

Last Time i checked the flu didn't kill hundreds of drs and bring the world economy to it's knees

 

[Hacky McAxe]

There is the legalities of the matter but tbh the public don't care for these games of snakes and ladders.

At the end of the day the entire state of victoria is now effectively shut down, and people know the buck stops with the government who were responsible for hotel quarantine (including the performance and/or non performance) of their security contractors.

That's the public belief. But we'll have to say what the courts say. There's a chance the government had no involvement in the screw up. Can't say until the evidence is fully presented.

 

[Flanagun]

I don't. I don't trust anyone. Instead I follow the trail of evidence and way up the odds.

@AlzzBulldog ways up the odds too. When he sees something on Youtube, he's like, way! When he reads something from a news source, scientist or public health authority, he's like, no way!

 

[Wahesh]

Brazil had more deaths then the US overnight, it's insane.

 

[AlzzBulldog]

Last Time i checked the flu didn't kill hundreds of drs and bring the world economy to it's knees

World economy on its knees because of corrupt governments, 1 day it will all come out

 

[AlzzBulldog]

@AlzzBulldog ways up the odds too. When he sees something on Youtube, he's like, way! When he reads something from a news source, scientist or public health authority, he's like, no way!

Who said its from youtube?

 

[south of heaven]

World economy on its knees because of corrupt governments, 1 day it will all come out

Most governments have some form corruption, it's no secret. To have over 150 countries governments all conspiring is a total load of dog shit

 

[The DoggFather]

Most governments have some form corruption, it's no secret. To have over 150 countries governments all conspiring is a total load of dog shit

Playing devils advocate, wouldn't that be technically possible through the UN?

 

[wendog33]

That's the public belief. But we'll have to say what the courts say. There's a chance the government had no involvement in the screw up. Can't say until the evidence is fully presented.

If we didn't have to put up with these baffoons, who do Murdoch's bidding, disseminating their rubbish, then these Karens and Jims would be dismissed with the disdain they deserve at this time of crisis.

Common sense should be our main criteria to help friends , family, health workers and our economy recover from this.

These bastards are just heightening tensions and fear in the community for some right wing media baron's sick ideology and financial gain.

So wrong.

Murdoch columnists are coronavirus superspreaders and should be closed under Melbourne’s Stage 4 restrictions - The Shot

If workplaces were the fuel of the coronavirus inferno, dickheads are its embers, threatening to start spot fires.

theshot.net.au

 

[south of heaven]

Playing devils advocate

That was al pacino

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Playing devils advocate, wouldn't that be technically possible through the UN?

Probably not. Two main problems:

1) it requires not just the country leaders, but millions of the country's citizens to be in on it

2) the USA is being hit the worst and they're pulling out support for the WHO