Coronavirus.

[The DoggFather]

http://imgur.com/a/DytgmTG

 

[KambahOne]

COVID is the biggest hoax in the history of mankind

Religion will forever hold that mantle.

 

[Dawgfather]

I wouldn't say it's entirely his responsibility. It's the responsibility of him, the other members of government, the security companies, the public, etc.

Yes this is what I mean.

Clearly the top public servant is accountable when you put private security contractors in charge of quarantining returning residents who are carrying a virus which has caused the shut down of the entire world's economy.

Of course there are other public servants who implemented the policy, but Daniel Andrews is at the top of the chain and would have signed off on the policy and also would have been the one to say no to the federal governments offer of the use of army soldiers to guard hotels.

A few months ago in the middle of the day I drove through the Sydney CBD and multiple hotels had groups of soldiers and police outside them.

No one would be willing to act up if they had police and soldiers guarding their hotel rooms.

Plenty of people would be willing to act up if they had some dodgy private security contractor standing outside.

 

[Dawgfather]

The same as Gladys having a job after letting the walking dead off that cruise ship.

That cruise ship stuff up was a 5hit show as well.

The only thing I'd say is that, at that point in time, a lot of governments around the world were still trying to work out the correct approach to take and procedures for quarantine and PPE etc hadn't been established.

Having said that, I would have been perfectly Ok if Gladys had been given the ass for that stuff up.

 

[CaptainJackson]

No one would be willing to act up if they had police and soldiers guarding their hotel rooms.

Plenty of people would be willing to act up if they had some dodgy private security contractor standing outside.

Man 'attempts to deliver drug' in fruit box to quarantined traveller in luxury hotel

The 37-year-old man arrived at the Sheraton at Sydney's Hyde Park shortly after 1pm on Thursday, carrying a fruit box which he claimed to be delivering to a man inside the hotel.

www.smh.com.au

A man has been charged after he allegedly attempted to deliver a fruit box concealing a prohibited drug to a quarantined traveller at a five-star hotel in Sydney’s CBD.

Woman escapes Marriott Hotel quarantine in Sydney, fined $1000: police

The woman told hotel staff and security her job as a flight attendant meant she needed to leave the hotel and catch a plane, a person familiar with the alleged escape said.

www.smh.com.au

A 63-year-old Queensland woman has been issued with a $1000 fine and been returned to hotel quarantine after she allegedly attempted to abscond from Sydney's Marriott Hotel on Wednesday.

Young Sydney Instagram Influencer Sneaks Out Of Quarantine To Buy Cigarettes

Sarah Josephine Liberty, an Instagram ‘influencer’ and host of The Feminist Friday podcast has been caught after sneaking out of her compulsory hotel quarantine. Ironically named, Liberty, has been fined after she left her room at the Marriott Hotel on Pitt Street, Sydney through the fire...

www.kiis1065.com.au

Sarah Josephine Liberty, an Instagram ‘influencer’ and host of The Feminist Friday podcast has been caught after sneaking out of her compulsory hotel quarantine.

Coronavirus: Man 'tries to escape hotel quarantine for CIGARETTE'

A man was charged with resisting police after an alleged struggle with officers while trying to leave for a cigarette.

au.news.yahoo.com

The 28-year-old man, from Queensland, was completing his mandatory 14-day quarantine at a hotel on Macquarie Street in Sydney when he tried to escape.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yes this is what I mean.

Clearly the top public servant is accountable when you put private security contractors in charge of quarantining returning residents who are carrying a virus which has caused the shut down of the entire world's economy.

Of course there are other public servants who implemented the policy, but Daniel Andrews is at the top of the chain and would have signed off on the policy and also would have been the one to say no to the federal governments offer of the use of army soldiers to guard hotels.

A few months ago in the middle of the day I drove through the Sydney CBD and multiple hotels had groups of soldiers and police outside them.

No one would be willing to act up if they had police and soldiers guarding their hotel rooms.

Plenty of people would be willing to act up if they had some dodgy private security contractor standing outside.

They can't use soldiers without approval from the senate which would take time to go through, unless they declare an emergency which they haven't done. They can use police though. And I tend to agree. Security have no power. They can deter but they can't legally detain.

That wasn't the real issue though. It's currently going through the courts to find who was to blame but it's sounding like the security companies are to blame. They provided no PPE and insufficient training for the security guards.

 

[CroydonDog]

QLD border being closed to all southerners from 1am Saturday.

 

[Gene Krupa]

Just close the border now, don't wait 3 days for the infected people to rush into QLD.

 

[The DoggFather]

That cruise ship stuff up was a 5hit show as well.

The only thing I'd say is that, at that point in time, a lot of governments around the world were still trying to work out the correct approach to take and procedures for quarantine and PPE etc hadn't been established.

Having said that, I would have been perfectly Ok if Gladys had been given the ass for that stuff up.

When it comes down to protecting our country and oldies on a ship, I wouldn't of let it dock at all.

Either turn it around or send out experts to start immediate testing.

 

[Dawgfather]

They can't use soldiers without approval from the senate which would take time to go through, unless they declare an emergency which they haven't done. They can use police though. And I tend to agree. Security have no power. They can deter but they can't legally detain.

That wasn't the real issue though. It's currently going through the courts to find who was to blame but it's sounding like the security companies are to blame. They provided no PPE and insufficient training for the security guards.

From what I've heard, the enquiry in Victoria does not have the powers of a judicial enquiry and does not have the power to compel documents or compel ministers to give evidence. I'm not sure anything will be found out (which is probably the reason why the enquiry was called) - Andrews can refuse to answer questions because an 'enquiry' is happening, however the enquiry lacks the power to get to the truth.

 

[Dawgfather]

Man 'attempts to deliver drug' in fruit box to quarantined traveller in luxury hotel

The 37-year-old man arrived at the Sheraton at Sydney's Hyde Park shortly after 1pm on Thursday, carrying a fruit box which he claimed to be delivering to a man inside the hotel.

www.smh.com.au

A man has been charged after he allegedly attempted to deliver a fruit box concealing a prohibited drug to a quarantined traveller at a five-star hotel in Sydney’s CBD.

The security in place clearly worked. I've seen the hotel CCTV - drug dealer arrives and gives fruit box to two police officers who get suspicious and identify the drugs.

Zero breach of quarantine

Woman escapes Marriott Hotel quarantine in Sydney, fined $1000: police

The woman told hotel staff and security her job as a flight attendant meant she needed to leave the hotel and catch a plane, a person familiar with the alleged escape said.

www.smh.com.au

A 63-year-old Queensland woman has been issued with a $1000 fine and been returned to hotel quarantine after she allegedly attempted to abscond from Sydney's Marriott Hotel on Wednesday.

'Attempted'

Young Sydney Instagram Influencer Sneaks Out Of Quarantine To Buy Cigarettes

Sarah Josephine Liberty, an Instagram ‘influencer’ and host of The Feminist Friday podcast has been caught after sneaking out of her compulsory hotel quarantine. Ironically named, Liberty, has been fined after she left her room at the Marriott Hotel on Pitt Street, Sydney through the fire...

www.kiis1065.com.au

Sarah Josephine Liberty, an Instagram ‘influencer’ and host of The Feminist Friday podcast has been caught after sneaking out of her compulsory hotel quarantine.

'has been caught'

Coronavirus: Man 'tries to escape hotel quarantine for CIGARETTE'

A man was charged with resisting police after an alleged struggle with officers while trying to leave for a cigarette.

au.news.yahoo.com

The 28-year-old man, from Queensland, was completing his mandatory 14-day quarantine at a hotel on Macquarie Street in Sydney when he tried to escape.

'tried' to escape.

In addition to the above, it doesn't take a scientist to point out that since the implementation of quarantine procedures in these hotels in NSW, there has been zero major outbreaks related to hotel quarantine.

Whereas in Victoria, there were 725 new cases reported today alone. The entire economy of Victoria has been shut down - directly due to the failure of their hotel quarantine system.

I know you're more on the left side of politics and I'm more on the right side, but what does politics have to do with this? It's very clear there was significant negligence in Victoria and the circumstances are specific to Victoria (no other state has experienced this).

 

[Dawgfather]

Fk this new quoting system is warped. Doesn't work at all like it does on Whirlpool.

Captain - some of my responses are embded within your quotations.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

From what I've heard, the enquiry in Victoria does not have the powers of a judicial enquiry and does not have the power to compel documents or compel ministers to give evidence. I'm not sure anything will be found out (which is probably the reason why the enquiry was called) - Andrews can refuse to answer questions because an 'enquiry' is happening, however the enquiry lacks the power to get to the truth.

They don't need to question Andrews as he wasn't directly involved in the Hotel setup or communications. It comes down to what the other staff did. The inquiry isn't about what policies were put in place by the Andrews government. It's about how everyone screwed up the Hotel Quarantine.

In this case they interview members of the security firm, hotel guests, hotel staff, government officials who were directly involved, and review communications between the groups to find where the screw up was.

It seems pretty cut at dry though. As long as contract from the government stated the scope of works including that they would be dealing with Covid-19 positive people, and that any breach would need to be reported, then the duty of care falls on to the security company. If the security company didn't report breaches, or didn't provide PPE, or the security staff as agents of the company did some dodgy stuff, then the company is liable resulting in heavy fines.

But if the government didn't properly convey the scope of works then the government officials are liable. From what I've heard the security guards are saying that they only received a message from their employers saying that they needed to guard a hotel. If that's the case then the security companies will be at least partially liable. I've worked in the industry long enough to know that no government official would ever send out a scope of works that says, "Stand at this hotel and guard". Government tenders are ridiculously complex because they know they can't make a mistake.

My guess from working in the industry is that some of the estimators have breezed over the scope and other details, only focusing on what they cared about being "Can we win this job?"

I have seen companies go under for making this same mistake. The companies involved here are too large to go under, but they will be held liable and the fines will be huge.

 

[Dawgfather]

They don't need to question Andrews as he wasn't directly involved in the Hotel setup or communications. It comes down to what the other staff did. The inquiry isn't about what policies were put in place by the Andrews government. It's about how everyone screwed up the Hotel Quarantine.

In this case they interview members of the security firm, hotel guests, hotel staff, government officials who were directly involved, and review communications between the groups to find where the screw up was.

It seems pretty cut at dry though. As long as contract from the government stated the scope of works including that they would be dealing with Covid-19 positive people, and that any breach would need to be reported, then the duty of care falls on to the security company. If the security company didn't report breaches, or didn't provide PPE, or the security staff as agents of the company did some dodgy stuff, then the company is liable resulting in heavy fines.

But if the government didn't properly convey the scope of works then the government officials are liable. From what I've heard the security guards are saying that they only received a message from their employers saying that they needed to guard a hotel. If that's the case then the security companies will be at least partially liable. I've worked in the industry long enough to know that no government official would ever send out a scope of works that says, "Stand at this hotel and guard". Government tenders are ridiculously complex because they know they can't make a mistake.

My guess from working in the industry is that some of the estimators have breezed over the scope and other details, only focusing on what they cared about being "Can we win this job?"

I have seen companies go under for making this same mistake. The companies involved here are too large to go under, but they will be held liable and the fines will be huge.

Separate from these points that you make is the much more important question:

"Was it reasonable for a state government to appoint private security contractors (who further sub-contracted the work), rather than utilising defence force or state police".

The answer is that it clearly was not reasonable. But we are having to wait a few months for some enquiry.

 

[CaptainJackson]

'tried' to escape.

In addition to the above, it doesn't take a scientist to point out that since the implementation of quarantine procedures in these hotels in NSW, there has been zero major outbreaks related to hotel quarantine.

Whereas in Victoria, there were 725 new cases reported today alone. The entire economy of Victoria has been shut down - directly due to the failure of their hotel quarantine system.

I know you're more on the left side of politics and I'm more on the right side, but what does politics have to do with this? It's very clear there was significant negligence in Victoria and the circumstances are specific to Victoria (no other state has experienced this).

" No one would be willing to act up if they had police and soldiers guarding their hotel rooms. "

 

[Dogna88]

" No one would be willing to act up if they had police and soldiers guarding their hotel rooms. "

I wouldn't say "no one" but i would say "alot less people".

Look at bars/night clubs and music festivals. Alot more people act up for security guards rather thn when confronted by the police.

There are private security guards working under police at Sydney hotels. But the police have the ultimate command, control and responsibility to ensure compliance. They also have the power to enforce any rules which could also act a deterrent.

There are alot of Karens out there and within hotels that would run riot over the security guards.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I wouldn't say "no one" but i would say "alot less people".

Look at bars/night clubs and music festivals. Alot more people act up for security guards rather thn when confronted by the police.

There are private security guards working under police at Sydney hotels. But the police have the ultimate command, control and responsibility to ensure compliance. They also have the power to enforce any rules which could also act a deterrent.

There are alot of Karens out there and within hotels that would run riot over the security guards.

Mate the point is that people are going to play up regardless if it's private security guards or police. The blame should fall squarely on the woman who tried to escape quarantine or not adhere to the strict limits of it.

We've seen many cases of people trying to jump the border (in recent border lockdowns ) even though there's police there. In some cases police have LET THEM PASS THROUGH (e.g. that sovereign citizen idiot who told police it's none of their business, she was allowed to pass).

Dawgfather is taking this as an opportunity to hit out at Daniel Andrews simply because news ltd are going full out attacking Andrews.

Let's look at Daniel Andrews actions?

He's worked tirelessly throughout this pandemic.

He resisted calls from the Federal government to open up (during wave 1) and kept the state locked down. Because he did this he was relentlessly attacked by news ltd, by Tim Smith (liberal state MP) , and called "Dictator Dan", likened to communist China, claimed that he was destroying people's "rights".

Funnily enough now Tim Smith is saying Daniel Andrews should have kept the state locked up longer and Tim Smith is also advocating that people who are infected should wear ankle bracelets to make sure they stay inside (what happened to "FREEEEDDDOOOOOOMMMMMM" AND "RIGHTS"?)

Daniel Andrews has fronted up to press conferences 35 days in a row and HE HAS STAYED AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE UNTIL EVERY QUESTION FROM JOURNALISTS WERE ANSWERED. In those 35 days he has answered every single question, even the questions from news ltd journalists who are looking for "got ya" moments.

In addition to answering journalist questions he has given clear guidelines as to what needed to be done and tried to explain why it needed to be done.

The bloke has been working tirelessly and under immense stress to beat this pandemic and he has received NO assistance by Liberal MP's, by the news ltd journalist, and none from sovereign citizen or COVID is 5G conspiracy nutbags.

Meanwhile here in NSW, NSW Labor have announced that they fully support any measures the NSW Liberal government wants to bring in, to help beat this pandemic.

I'm just pointing out the bullshit in dawgfathers posts again. Just because it's cops, people won't be WILLING to behave.

 

[Dogna88]

Mate the point is that people are going to play up regardless if it's private security guards or police. The blame should fall squarely on the woman who tried to escape quarantine or not adhere to the strict limits of it.

We've seen many cases of people trying to jump the border (in recent border lockdowns ) even though there's police there. In some cases police have LET THEM PASS THROUGH (e.g. that sovereign citizen idiot who told police it's none of their business, she was allowed to pass).

Dawgfather is taking this as an opportunity to hit out at Daniel Andrews simply because news ltd are going full out attacking Andrews.

Let's look at Daniel Andrews actions?

He's worked tirelessly throughout this pandemic.

He resisted calls from the Federal government to open up (during wave 1) and kept the state locked down. Because he did this he was relentlessly attacked by news ltd, by Tim Smith (liberal state MP) , and called "Dictator Dan", likened to communist China, claimed that he was destroying people's "rights".

Funnily enough now Tim Smith is saying Daniel Andrews should have kept the state locked up longer and Tim Smith is also advocating that people who are infected should wear ankle bracelets to make sure they stay inside (what happened to "FREEEEDDDOOOOOOMMMMMM" AND "RIGHTS"?)

Daniel Andrews has fronted up to press conferences 35 days in a row and HE HAS STAYED AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE UNTIL EVERY QUESTION FROM JOURNALISTS WERE ANSWERED. In those 35 days he has answered every single question, even the questions from news ltd journalists who are looking for "got ya" moments.

In addition to answering journalist questions he has given clear guidelines as to what needed to be done and tried to explain why it needed to be done.

The bloke has been working tirelessly and under immense stress to beat this pandemic and he has received NO assistance by Liberal MP's, by the news ltd journalist, and none from sovereign citizen or COVID is 5G conspiracy nutbags.

Meanwhile here in NSW, NSW Labor have announced that they fully support any measures the NSW Liberal government wants to bring in, to help beat this pandemic.

I'm just pointing out the bullshit in dawgfathers posts again. Just because it's cops, people won't be WILLING to behave.

Ahhh yeh. Lol i don't care about the labor v liberal, left v right stuff.... ill leave that to you and dawg. No premier/prime minister/governor/president would wilfuly harm their people in these unprecedented times. They are doing the best they can. They may get it wrong. But fuk, give the ***** a break.


Yes, responsibility should fall on individuals. But people are stupid. No one cares about the greater good or the bigger picture. Because people are stupid.

I can guarantee you, without a doubt, i say this with the upmost confidence... If the police weren't at Sydney hotels. Alot of people would have walked out sticking their finger at the private secuirty guards.

 

[CaptainJackson]

No premier/prime minister/governor/president would wilfuly harm their people in these unprecedented times. They are doing the best they can. They may get it wrong. But fuk, give the c*** a break.

Yep that's the key takeaway from this, especially given that we're facing a pandemic that no one has faced before nor is there a proper set of rules of how to deal with it and the fact that scientists are finding out new things as they go along.

Have to edit this, except for Trump. He's willfully harming his people because it's affecting his re-election chances. Hes a POS

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Separate from these points that you make is the much more important question:

"Was it reasonable for a state government to appoint private security contractors (who further sub-contracted the work), rather than utilising defence force or state police".

The answer is that it clearly was not reasonable. But we are having to wait a few months for some enquiry.

Reasonable? Yes

Generally police aren't assigned to these sorts of duties unless they think there is going to be criminal activity that requires it (potential riots, drug use, etc). Security is more common as it frees up police to handle other matters. Security guard also requires less training and lower pay so it's a cost saving thing. Plus there's around 4 times as many security guards in Australia than there is police.

This isn't uncommon though. In Australia police aren't assigned to security duty unless it's high risk. Otherwise it's just a waste of resources. In hindsight it could have stopped the spread, but no one would have predicted that the security companies would screw up so monumentally.