Bad recruiting

[JayBee]

Why do other clubs do that tho? We're in the same boat as them and possibly worse (to be honest we are compared to a lot of them). Tigers are paying 600k a year for Doueihi why? They're in a much better position than us (attraction wise) and I know that's hard to take considering how much BM i've seen thrown towards them.

Do you honestly rate the many they call Doey?

600K a season for him, who has literally yet to nail down a position - is a stupid waste IMO

 

[Suave]

Yeah I think along the same lines. The only way I see us surprising and making the 8 is if a few youngsters have break out seasons and turn out to be a revelation. Namely Wakeham, Averillo, Toomaga.

I loved the way we played back end of last season. But can we actually perform at that defensive level consistently and in games that actually matter? Our attack is still a massive concern which is why we need some of the youngsters to step up and provide some spark.

It's where we're expected to finish at the start of the season. There are always teams that do better or worse than what's expected. I've already told you that and also that I think we'll finish just outside the bottom four. It's a lot more likely we get the wooden spoon than make the eight tho. I believe we over performed last year. We've barely strengthened whereas others have (e.g. Cowboys) as well as I believe a few of the teams that finish below us are better than us on paper and had a poor season last year (e.g. Dragons). Titans are the only team I can say we're "certainties" to finish above with the Warriors close to that.

 

[bradyk]

Do you honestly rate the many they call Doey?

600K a season for him, who has literally yet to nail down a position - is a stupid waste IMO

I agree but why are they doing that? Why do they pay big money for everyone they sign (same as the other clubs you mentioned in that time period)? Add the Knights to the list. I actually think the kid has potential (same as Lomax) just it's a lot of money. Again you need to answer the question and remember we're in the same boat (and even worse) as these clubs. We're not a powerhouse anymore. We're not in a good position regarding attracting talent.

 

[Kiwipup]

I agree but why are they doing that? Why do they pay big money for everyone they sign (same as the other clubs you mentioned in that time period)? Add the Knights to the list. I actually think the kid has potential (same as Lomax) just it's a lot of money. Again you need to answer the question and remember we're in the same boat (and even worse) as these clubs. We're not a powerhouse anymore. We're not in a good position regarding attracting talent.

Why are they doing that?

Very simple answer - They're stupid

 

[bradyk]

Why are they doing that?

Very simple answer - They're stupid

No. It's because they're unable to attract players to their club so they have to use money as an incentive and we're below them in the pecking order unfortunately so we're not competitive in the market as we're below them "expected success/results" wise as well as what we're offering in terms of money.

 

[DinkumDog]

We do agree about looking after players, their families, the fact she will have 2 terms and then be judged. I do hope they succeed and I love how DWZ is talking us up. Surely that helps.

Their current ability to recruit I do have doubts upon and come 2021 there will be no-where left to hide I think. 2021 will be their final judgement. Let's also remember that a certain female person prior to her had come from running Netball NZ, received some award (that I can't remember now) and went on to RU. Sometimes the fact they tick a box in gender equality is enough to get jobs so I will certainly wait to see what her actual results are. If anything the last one taught us that... and before I get called sexist by anyone I fully admit their is bags of shite males aswell. Best person for the job either way IMO.

2021 recruitment is key and as I said I’m reserving my judgement until we see the results of that.

Not concerned about any gender comparisons to the past - Rae was absolutely out of her depth - much damage caused to our club and has gone on to an equally bad performance at RA. I have far more confidence in Lynne but yes, she’s still accountable to deliver.

 

[Kiwipup]

No. It's because they're unable to attract players to their club so they have to use money as an incentive and we're below them in the pecking order unfortunately so we're not competitive in the market as we're below them "expected success/results" wise as well as what we're offering in terms of money.

What are you talking about.

When the Tigers had cash, they spent money on the likes of Matulino, Packer, Mbye, Reynolds and the likes. They ended up being flops and than they were in cap problems. Thats called shit recruitement
They cleared cap space and missed out on Latrell Mitchell - boo hoo

We were in the same position as them with shit signings - Williams, Foran, Woods etc

The biggest problem with them, just like us, was retention.

Tigers should never of let Tedesco, Moses and Woods go.

We did the same thing with Finucane and Cook.

Since these players left there clubs, no upcoming players have emerged in there same positions.

The quality of players in the NRL today is quite average. Not much talent, its whoever is the fittest and strongest

 

[TwinTurbo]

That's wonderful but we're expected to come second last. I don't think we will and instead finish just outside the bottom four. If we're being serious we can't rely on that.

Expected by who?
The same muppetts who last year predicted StGeorge would finish Top 4 and maybe even win the comp.
Those very same muppetts who predicted Top 4 for the Cowboys.
And Top 4 for Penrith.
And Top 4 for the Donkeys.
FFS a couple even predicted that the Titans would make the 8.

Source https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/03/07/top-eight-predictions-nrl.com-experts-have-their-say/

I'm actually quite pleased that they dismissed our chances as there's a damn good chance that they will be just as wrong in 2020.

Go Dogs

 

[bradyk]

Expected by who?
The same muppetts who last year predicted StGeorge would finish Top 4 and maybe even win the comp.
Those very same muppetts who predicted Top 4 for the Cowboys.
And Top 4 for Penrith.
And Top 4 for the Donkeys.
FFS a couple even predicted that the Titans would make the 8.

Source https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/03/07/top-eight-predictions-nrl.com-experts-have-their-say/

I'm actually quite pleased that they dismissed our chances as there's a damn good chance that they will be just as wrong in 2020.

Go Dogs

Looking at where the money is for the wooden spoon, making the eight, missing the eight, winning the premiership, etc. Just have a scroll through sportsbet if you want.

 

[bradyk]

What are you talking about.

When the Tigers had cash, they spent money on the likes of Matulino, Packer, Mbye, Reynolds and the likes. They ended up being flops and than they were in cap problems. Thats called shit recruitement
They cleared cap space and missed out on Latrell Mitchell - boo hoo

We were in the same position as them with shit signings - Williams, Foran, Woods etc

The biggest problem with them, just like us, was retention.

Tigers should never of let Tedesco, Moses and Woods go.

We did the same thing with Finucane and Cook.

Since these players left there clubs, no upcoming players have emerged in there same positions.

The quality of players in the NRL today is quite average. Not much talent, its whoever is the fittest and strongest

Your first point actually is a for for me. If they didn't sign those types of players on that money they wouldn't of signed anyone or just other similar players.

When we signed Williams, Foran and Woods we were in a much better position then than now.

Why wouldn't Tedesco take 1m to play for the best team in the competition? Players either play somewhere for success or money. When it comes to retaining you can usually get away with meeting in between what you want to retain a player for and what he's being offered elsewhere but this isn't always to case. It's a lot easier to retain than bring players to the club. Once they're here I think they'll enjoy being here (e.g. culture, leadership group).

Lichaa was the next big thing/hooker coming through. Hindsight 20/20 Lichaa wasn't what he was meant to be and Cook was a hidden gem but I can't say back then I thought Cook would become what he did (same as the club/coach obviously). He barely played for us and was a bit of a journeyman. Also didn't fit the team if we're to believe how Des wanted his hooker's to play.

At the end of the day we've retained almost everyone we NEEDED to but it isn't going to help us with bringing players in as like I've said we're expected to come second last with the squad we have (if Foran wasn't injured maybe we go up a few positions).

I disagree with "the quality of players in the NRL today is quite average". It's the best it has ever been. If you mean the players off contract that's because we've waited too long to get into the market for 2021.

 

[TwinTurbo]

We've barely strengthened whereas others have (e.g. Cowboys) as well as I believe a few of the teams that finish below us are better than us on paper and had a poor season last year (e.g. Dragons). Titans are the only team I can say we're "certainties" to finish above with the Warriors close to that.

I agree that based on the start of last year we were 2, 3 or maybe 4 quality NRL players short. But after the last 1/3rd of season I'm not convinced that it will be the same for the start of this season. I think of the players that we have released and who is filling their positions. such as Lichaa & Brown out with JMK & Katoa in, Stimson & Britt in and Fualalo & Tualau out, etc. Allowing for positional swaps we have DWZ, Hopoate and Meaney for this year whereas last year we had Crichton, Olive and Montoya. DWZ is killing it, Hopoate is much more productive for us at centre than fullback and Meaney has progressed rapidly on the wing. Different positions for sure, but a net far better package. Added to that is the experienced gained by the younger players last year in Cogger, Wakeham, Okunbor, Lewis and Harper. For them this is the year to stand up and be counted as an NRL level player.

As for the other teams, I see their losses as being greater than their gains, not necessarily one on one but in total numbers. Some examples;
There is no way Mitchell fills the gaps left by the departure of 2 x Burgess, Sutton and Inglis, net I see Souths as not having upgraded this year. That doesn't mean they have bad team, just on paper not as good as it was last year.

Melbourne to me are the big losers having lost Croft, Scott, Kata, Chambers and Stimson (and maybe JAC) with just Riley Jacks as an acquisition and Brenko Lee FFS. That's a big net loss and if Smith starts feeling his age even more, they will need every one of Bellamy's magic tricks. That's why they are demanding a heavy price for JAC's release, they need a quality replacement and are going to play hard ball until they get it. They really need the NRL to approve the Momirovski and Grant trade.

Compared to this time last year the Chooks have lost Cronk, Mitchell and Tetevano and gained Flanagan, surely that is more talent lost than gained.

The Cowboys are pretty weak in the front row with Molo (25) Hola (20) and Gilbert (19) they could well struggle in the middle after losing Scott and Bolton plus Kahu, Tuala and Martin.

I can't see the Tigers making the 8 after losing Farah, Rochow, Matulino, Fonua, Marsters and Matterson. They do have Cap space so can still improve their roster. They also need the NRL to approve the Momirovski and Grant trade.

The Titans have so much talent that they had to resurrect Gordon for the 9's, enough said, even more so if they lose Arrow. Holbrook might need some (a lot) of that Bellamy magic dust.

As long as McGregor is their coach I don't see the Dragons doing much, not sure how much effect Flanagan can have as assistant.

I don't rate Croft, so I can't see the Donkeys improving much. Especially without Dargan, Gillett, Fensom, Tagataese, Mago and Segeyaro.

The Sharks have lost a lot with Brailey, Feki, Flanagan, Gallen and Capewell gone. Plus I don't rate Morris as a coach, he basically followed Flanagan's selections, processes and plays early on and as the season went on he installed his own which demonstrably didn't work out. They have 4 centres and not much in the way of NRL level wingers, adding it up I don't think they will make the 8 either.

The Knights have lost a lot of experience in Kenny-Dowall, Gavet, Buhrer, Ramien, Ross and Levi. With a new coaching staff I wouldn't be surprised in they didn't make the 8 either.

Warriors, who knows, they haven't really signed anyone of note, plus no Ayshford or Luke this year. I think they will struggle to make the 8.

The Panthers they have lost some reasonable players in RCG, Grant, Katoa, McKendry, Egan, Fuimaono and Winterstein but they have recruited some decent players as well in Koroisau, Capewell and Tetevano. They should be there or thereabouts, but could just as easily miss out.

In summary, when I actually analyse each teams gains and losses compared to last year we stack up pretty well.

Go Dogs

 

[TwinTurbo]

Looking at where the money is for the wooden spoon, making the eight, missing the eight, winning the premiership, etc. Just have a scroll through sportsbet if you want.

Sportsbet ...............seriously.................their sole objective is to make money, so it's in their best interest to entice dumb punters into placing bad bets. Why the hell would they want their "predictors" to be accurate, when exactly the opposite gets them the most profit.

Go Dogs

 

[bradyk]

I agree that based on the start of last year we were 2, 3 or maybe 4 quality NRL players short. But after the last 1/3rd of season I'm not convinced that it will be the same for the start of this season. I think of the players that we have released and who is filling their positions. such as Lichaa & Brown out with JMK & Katoa in, Stimson & Britt in and Fualalo & Tualau out, etc. Allowing for positional swaps we have DWZ, Hopoate and Meaney for this year whereas last year we had Crichton, Olive and Montoya. DWZ is killing it, Hopoate is much more productive for us at centre than fullback and Meaney has progressed rapidly on the wing. Different positions for sure, but a net far better package. Added to that is the experienced gained by the younger players last year in Cogger, Wakeham, Okunbor, Lewis and Harper. For them this is the year to stand up and be counted as an NRL level player.

As for the other teams, I see their losses as being greater than their gains, not necessarily one on one but in total numbers. Some examples;
There is no way Mitchell fills the gaps left by the departure of 2 x Burgess, Sutton and Inglis, net I see Souths as not having upgraded this year. That doesn't mean they have bad team, just on paper not as good as it was last year.

Melbourne to me are the big losers having lost Croft, Scott, Kata, Chambers and Stimson (and maybe JAC) with just Riley Jacks as an acquisition and Brenko Lee FFS. That's a big net loss and if Smith starts feeling his age even more, they will need every one of Bellamy's magic tricks. That's why they are demanding a heavy price for JAC's release, they need a quality replacement and are going to play hard ball until they get it. They really need the NRL to approve the Momirovski and Grant trade.

Compared to this time last year the Chooks have lost Cronk, Mitchell and Tetevano and gained Flanagan, surely that is more talent lost than gained.

The Cowboys are pretty weak in the front row with Molo (25) Hola (20) and Gilbert (19) they could well struggle in the middle after losing Scott and Bolton plus Kahu, Tuala and Martin.

I can't see the Tigers making the 8 after losing Farah, Rochow, Matulino, Fonua, Marsters and Matterson. They do have Cap space so can still improve their roster. They also need the NRL to approve the Momirovski and Grant trade.

The Titans have so much talent that they had to resurrect Gordon for the 9's, enough said, even more so if they lose Arrow. Holbrook might need some (a lot) of that Bellamy magic dust.

As long as McGregor is their coach I don't see the Dragons doing much, not sure how much effect Flanagan can have as assistant.

I don't rate Croft, so I can't see the Donkeys improving much. Especially without Dargan, Gillett, Fensom, Tagataese, Mago and Segeyaro.

The Sharks have lost a lot with Brailey, Feki, Flanagan, Gallen and Capewell gone. Plus I don't rate Morris as a coach, he basically followed Flanagan's selections, processes and plays early on and as the season went on he installed his own which demonstrably didn't work out. They have 4 centres and not much in the way of NRL level wingers, adding it up I don't think they will make the 8 either.

The Knights have lost a lot of experience in Kenny-Dowall, Gavet, Buhrer, Ramien, Ross and Levi. With a new coaching staff I wouldn't be surprised in they didn't make the 8 either.

Warriors, who knows, they haven't really signed anyone of note, plus no Ayshford or Luke this year. I think they will struggle to make the 8.

The Panthers they have lost some reasonable players in RCG, Grant, Katoa, McKendry, Egan, Fuimaono and Winterstein but they have recruited some decent players as well in Koroisau, Capewell and Tetevano. They should be there or thereabouts, but could just as easily miss out.

In summary, when I actually analyse each teams gains and losses compared to last year we stack up pretty well.

Go Dogs

I think our squad has barely improved bringing in the players you've mentioned (one or two of them will make our 17) and when you actually sit down and compare every position to other teams it's very scary where we're. Before last year I was just looking at what we had within and how they performed against each other which actually makes you think players are better then what they actually are but when you expand who you're comparing our players with our squad is filled with a lot of average or below average players. I love our team and the effort they show but they're just not good enough to be competitive. Even if what you're saying is true when you compare the 17's we're a bottom four side. That's my own opinion but I just use other peoples opinions who aren't bias to the Bulldogs to strengthen it (e.g. betting odds, other fans).

 

[bradyk]

Sportsbet ...............seriously.................their sole objective is to make money, so it's in their best interest to entice dumb punters into placing bad bets. Why the hell would they want their "predictors" to be accurate, when exactly the opposite gets them the most profit.

Go Dogs

The odds are determined by the bettors (~95% accurate so sportsbet are making money but that applies to every bet so it's irrelevant).

 

[Kiwipup]

Your first point actually is a for for me. If they didn't sign those types of players on that money they wouldn't of signed anyone or just other similar players.

When we signed Williams, Foran and Woods we were in a much better position then than now.

Why wouldn't Tedesco take 1m to play for the best team in the competition? Players either play somewhere for success or money. When it comes to retaining you can usually get away with meeting in between what you want to retain a player for and what he's being offered elsewhere but this isn't always to case. It's a lot easier to retain than bring players to the club. Once they're here I think they'll enjoy being here (e.g. culture, leadership group).

Lichaa was the next big thing/hooker coming through. Hindsight 20/20 Lichaa wasn't what he was meant to be and Cook was a hidden gem but I can't say back then I thought Cook would become what he did (same as the club/coach obviously). He barely played for us and was a bit of a journeyman. Also didn't fit the team if we're to believe how Des wanted his hooker's to play.

At the end of the day we've retained almost everyone we NEEDED to but it isn't going to help us with bringing players in as like I've said we're expected to come second last with the squad we have (if Foran wasn't injured maybe we go up a few positions).

I disagree with "the quality of players in the NRL today is quite average". It's the best it has ever been. If you mean the players off contract that's because we've waited too long to get into the market for 2021.

The quality of players is nowhere near the best it has ever been.

Im not going to go in depth with past generations as I am wasting my time.

Your top FB's in todays game are Tedesco and RTS, everyone else is on par with each other

Hookers - C. Smith, Cook & Hodgson, everyone else is on par with each other

HB's - DCE and Keary - the remainder of them are junk

5/8s - Munster than see you later

The only REAL "emerging" standout's are Haas and D.Fifita

Forwards win you games, spine wins you the comp.

Our spine is average and has been like that for years

You can have the best forward pack and outside backs, but without a top spine you are 0% chance of winning the comp.

Please name me the spines of the clubs who have won the comp since 2012

 

[bradyk]

The quality of players is nowhere near the best it has ever been.

Im not going to go in depth with past generations as I am wasting my time.

Your top FB's in todays game are Tedesco and RTS, everyone else is on par with each other

Hookers - C. Smith, Cook & Hodgson, everyone else is on par with each other

HB's - DCE and Keary - the remainder of them are junk

5/8s - Munster than see you later

The only REAL "emerging" standout's are Haas and D.Fifita

Forwards win you games, spine wins you the comp.

Our spine is average and has been like that for years

You can have the best forward pack and outside backs, but without a top spine you are 0% chance of winning the comp.

Please name me the spines of the clubs who have won the comp since 2012

Fullbacks - Trbo? Ponga? I think majority of fullbacks in the NRL are very good just those four are the elite ones.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of the positions because it's evident players aren't on par with each other. Maybe you're not watching every NRL game?

We have one of the worst spines in the NRL. Worst isn't average.

As a collective we don't have good backs or forwards either?

Raiders came 2nd (and were as close as they could possibly be to 1st) with CNK, Wighton, Seizer and Hodgson.

 

[Kiwipup]

Fullbacks - Trbo? Ponga? I think majority of fullbacks in the NRL are very good just those four are the elite ones.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of the positions because it's evident players aren't on par with each other. Maybe you're not watching every NRL game?

We have one of the worst spines in the NRL. Worst isn't average.

As a collective we don't have good backs or forwards either?

Raiders came 2nd (and were as close as they could possibly be to 1st) with CNK, Wighton, Seizer and Hodgson.

You prove my point with the Canberra spine

Thank you

 

[TwinTurbo]

I think our squad has barely improved bringing in the players you've mentioned (one or two of them will make our 17) and when you actually sit down and compare every position to other teams it's very scary where we're. Before last year I was just looking at what we had within and how they performed against each other which actually makes you think players are better then what they actually are but when you expand who you're comparing our players with our squad is filled with a lot of average or below average players. I love our team and the effort they show but they're just not good enough to be competitive. Even if what you're saying is true when you compare the 17's we're a bottom four side. That's my own opinion but I just use other peoples opinions who aren't bias to the Bulldogs to strengthen it (e.g. betting odds, other fans).

Above I've taken the time to provide support (facts) as to why I think we have improved since the start of last year and a lot (as in most) teams haven't. In fact there are 10 examples above of teams that have demonstrably gone backwards since then. For sure you are entitled to your opinion, but for credibility it would help if you can provide something (facts) to support that opinion.

Go Dogs

 

[bradyk]

Above I've taken the time to provide support (facts) as to why I think we have improved since the start of last year and a lot (as in most) teams haven't. In fact there are 10 examples above of teams that have demonstrably gone backwards since then. For sure you are entitled to your opinion, but for credibility it would help if you can provide something (facts) to support that opinion.

Go Dogs

The rest above us destroy us talent wise. It really doesn't matter what they've done. There's no point mentioning a lot of the teams you did.

Warriors
Nothing worth of note

Cowboys
+'s Holmes, Marsters, maybe Robson
-'s Scott (only provides leadership and experience)

Dragons
Nothing worth of note, Leilua and Robson wasn't playing anyways

Titans
Nothing worth of note

We're very similar to the Warriors, Dragons and Titans. Dragons on paper are better than us. I think there is a lot of hope involved in peoples expectations.

 

[Kennelnator]

We will be going nowhere unless we pick up a top line halve and hooker - as a bare minimum