Bad recruiting

sgodllubsti

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doesn't matter how you look at our current recruitment, come seasons end those in charge will have nothing to hide behind or blame if we cant sign anyone of significance from the open market, salary cap is no excuse at seasons end, the pressure will be right on the recruitment personal and the board
 

Shire Dog

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But it’s not evidence mate, it’s speculation (re: ‘failed’ signings). As for the blueprint - we’re not there yet. I’ve said repeatedly on here, this board needs 2 terms / 4 years to turn the ship around (done) and set the course for the future (next 2 years). If they don’t deliver in these next two years good chance they’ll be gone too. Lynne has recently won two awards for leadership and is CEO of Paralympics Australia - she’s no dope and you don’t get awards or those kinds of jobs if you’re not fit for them. The assumption that she’s automatically applying the Bullfrog blueprint is only because she’s his daughter and the only evidence I’ve seen of her doing anything similar to her dad is the restoration of the family club approach - embrace the players, their welfare and families. And that’s a good thing in my view. DWZ among others seem to agree. Any other comparison just can’t be made because the eras are so different.
There is no doubt that Lynne is in the hot seat,
But I do believe she has a strong team in Hilly and the board in support
Our success will also hinge on the recruitment team doing a good job
We have a lot of experienced people within our club which I’m sure she would consult with regarding important decisions
At the end of the day no judgment can me made until next year
Good businesses are always a team effort and are on the same page
No knives
 
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DinkumDog

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There is no doubt that Lynne is in the hot seat,
But I do believe she has a strong team in Hilly and the board in support
Our success will also hinge on the recruitment team doing a good job
We have a lot of experienced people within our club which I’m sure she would consult with regarding important decisions
At the end of the day no judgment can me made until next year
Good businesses are always a team effort and are on the same page
No knives
Agree mate and I think towards the end of the previous regime it’s a fair assumption that silos had formed and that’s always going to end badly...
 

steeliz

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Bad Recruiting and Non existent recruitment threads both in 24 hrs?

The whingers on here at least used to be imaginative. Guess that is over.
 

JayBee

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I agree but why are they doing that? Why do they pay big money for everyone they sign (same as the other clubs you mentioned in that time period)? Add the Knights to the list. I actually think the kid has potential (same as Lomax) just it's a lot of money. Again you need to answer the question and remember we're in the same boat (and even worse) as these clubs. We're not a powerhouse anymore. We're not in a good position regarding attracting talent.
I personally think it is far too early to be saying that.

When you have DWZ and Hoppa talking up the place like they do publicly, people will understand. We have the tools to be a powerhouse.

My problem with the above statement is it is being based on our lack of buying recently - of which, I would say the market isn't in fantastic shape. It's not like there are dozens of off contract guns that we could have purchased (or attracted) - because when they were available, we were left in a Dib+Des shit heap - and when we do have some cash freed up, the market is nowhere near as good as it has been in previous years.

I am all for us as a club buying youngsters hoping to turn them into guns (Meaney, Cogger, Crichton etc) because our cap situation was fucked. If this statement was said in a years' time after we literally purchase no one, then I would agree with it.

I just think it's jumping the gun. And to prove my point - here are some guns from 2018, who moved clubs (we can argue about how good they've been, but they're all on marquee/second-to-third tier contracts):

2018 players who moved clubs:

Jack Bird, Ponga, Watson, Pearce, Hiku, Moylan, Dugan, Hunt, Tedesco, Cronk, Harris, Green, Gagai, Arrow

Compare that to players for 2020:

Brailey, Marsters, Holmes, Matterson, RCG, Korisau, Mitchell, Croft, Curtis Scott, Leilua x 2, G. Williams, Ramien

Can you honestly say the class of 2020 is better than 2018? Because we had no money to spend in 2018 after the Foran purchase - and look at all those moves.

Yes - you could argue we missed out on Ramien, Latrell et al in the 2020 bunch. But Ramien was using us as a bargaining chip, because he always wanted a Sharks reunion. And Latrell - well, let's not go there (I think time will show we dodged a bullet).
 

Squash the Berries!

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JMK, Hoppa, Jackson, Foran, Montoya, Holland, Smith, Elliot, Tolman & Pay apart from that I can’t see a problem with our recruitment.
 

bradyk

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I personally think it is far too early to be saying that.

When you have DWZ and Hoppa talking up the place like they do publicly, people will understand. We have the tools to be a powerhouse.

My problem with the above statement is it is being based on our lack of buying recently - of which, I would say the market isn't in fantastic shape. It's not like there are dozens of off contract guns that we could have purchased (or attracted) - because when they were available, we were left in a Dib+Des shit heap - and when we do have some cash freed up, the market is nowhere near as good as it has been in previous years.

I am all for us as a club buying youngsters hoping to turn them into guns (Meaney, Cogger, Crichton etc) because our cap situation was fucked. If this statement was said in a years' time after we literally purchase no one, then I would agree with it.

I just think it's jumping the gun. And to prove my point - here are some guns from 2018, who moved clubs (we can argue about how good they've been, but they're all on marquee/second-to-third tier contracts):

2018 players who moved clubs:

Jack Bird, Ponga, Watson, Pearce, Hiku, Moylan, Dugan, Hunt, Tedesco, Cronk, Harris, Green, Gagai, Arrow

Compare that to players for 2020:

Brailey, Marsters, Holmes, Matterson, RCG, Korisau, Mitchell, Croft, Curtis Scott, Leilua x 2, G. Williams, Ramien

Can you honestly say the class of 2020 is better than 2018? Because we had no money to spend in 2018 after the Foran purchase - and look at all those moves.

Yes - you could argue we missed out on Ramien, Latrell et al in the 2020 bunch. But Ramien was using us as a bargaining chip, because he always wanted a Sharks reunion. And Latrell - well, let's not go there (I think time will show we dodged a bullet).
For me recruitment for 2021 started last November. I have seen majority of the top talent locked up (retained) or move elsewhere already. I'm not really talking about 2020 as I understand the situation we're in but we had enough money to buy one to two quality players which we did try to do for 2020 and we were unable to do so. Now we're relying on players to break contracts which we've seen this year already they'll do but why are they going to pick us over other clubs if we're offering them less money and success? What happens if we're unable to get our targets for next year like that while remembering we have to spend X amount of our salary cap. That is my concern anyways. When you combine that with where we're expected to finish this season before a ball is kicked, second last, it's a worry is it not? All these other teams (teams around our level and above us) show to attract talent you need to splash the cash otherwise you end up with no one which isn't something you can actually do.
 
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Natboy

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For me recruitment for 2021 started last November. I have seen majority of the top talent locked up (retained) or move elsewhere already. I'm not really talking about 2020 as I understand the situation we're in but we had enough money to buy one to two quality players which we did try to do for 2020 and we were unable to do so. Now we're relying on players to break contracts which we've seen this year already they'll do but why are they going to pick us over other clubs if we're offering them less money and success? What happens if we're unable to get our targets for next year like that while remembering we have to spend X amount of our salary cap. That is my concern anyways. When you combine that with where we're expected to finish this season before a ball is kicked, second last, it's a worry is it not? All these other teams (teams around our level and above us) show to attract talent you need to splash the cash otherwise you end up with no one which isn't something you can actually do.
Who has moved elsewhere for 2021 and not 2020 apart from Arrow? (who wants to move now but the Titans are standing their ground). That’s been one of our problems too. I appreciate that we aren’t as desirable as the roosters and Souths atm
 

bradyk

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Who has moved elsewhere for 2021 and not 2020 apart from Arrow? (who wants to move now but the Titans are standing their ground). That’s been one of our problems too. I appreciate that we aren’t as desirable as the roosters and Souths atm
Clubs retaining has been the main thing but a lot of those players were available for a while after November meaning they were most likely testing their worth on the market. I can't think of many e.g.'s off the top of my head but Tino the Storm prop is another that's going elsewhere in 2021. It's one or the other which both lead to the same thing. Clubs are trying their best to retain their talent before November if not right after (for 2021). As you can see there isn't much left.
 

halfcast

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The club and as dogs supporters we know this from history has in the words of Sinatra "done it my (our) way"
I'm not concerned..it would nice to have a gun centre..xerri..but to pay massive overs?!..have we done that in the past oh yes we have..trex..ultimate flop
I believe getting a highly rated prop..Thompson..is the rock we need to start the foundation for a premiership winning side
 

Natboy

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Clubs retaining has been the main thing but a lot of those players were available for a while after November meaning they were most likely testing their worth on the market. I can't think of many e.g.'s off the top of my head but Tino the Storm prop is another that's going elsewhere in 2021. It's one or the other which both lead to the same thing. Clubs are trying their best to retain their talent before November if not right after (for 2021). As you can see there isn't much left.
Exactly so hardly anyone. Cheers
 

JayBee

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Clubs retaining has been the main thing but a lot of those players were available for a while after November meaning they were most likely testing their worth on the market. I can't think of many e.g.'s off the top of my head but Tino the Storm prop is another that's going elsewhere in 2021. It's one or the other which both lead to the same thing. Clubs are trying their best to retain their talent before November if not right after (for 2021). As you can see there isn't much left.
For me - that settles it.

If there is no stand out slap in the face that I haven't already listed, then it makes your argument dead and buried.

Also - the fact you named a prop, who is virtually untested, and paid MASSIVE overs for - says a lot about the market at the moment, and validating my point - we can hiss and moan about the lack of quality signings, but there has not been quality available in the market.

And note - when I talk "quality signing", I am referencing a player who will make out squad stronger. Adding a gun forward, to a forward pack who needs little injection is not what I would deem a quality signing.
 

TwinTurbo

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My view on Thompson is that 2021 is for him to get up to NRL speed, fitness, intensity and then take over from Toleman in 2022 as the long minutes prop. With Toleman , if he's still up to it, relieving Napa for limited minutes. With Ogden and To'omaga as the likely replacements if Toleman isn't up to it.

Long term planning needs to be combined with more urgent gap filling. The prop long term requirement is pretty obvious, but the hooker, 1/2, 5/8 & centre gaps may not end up being gaps depending on how the incumbents perform this year. For example if Smith kills it at centre and Harper develops further we might not need a centre next year. We have so many players where this year is their chance to shine, looking forward to watching their development.

Go Dogs
 

bradyk

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For me - that settles it.

If there is no stand out slap in the face that I haven't already listed, then it makes your argument dead and buried.

Also - the fact you named a prop, who is virtually untested, and paid MASSIVE overs for - says a lot about the market at the moment, and validating my point - we can hiss and moan about the lack of quality signings, but there has not been quality available in the market.

And note - when I talk "quality signing", I am referencing a player who will make out squad stronger. Adding a gun forward, to a forward pack who needs little injection is not what I would deem a quality signing.
Not sure how it's "dead and buried". A lot of the good players available after November have now been retained meaning we can't sign them. It doesn't matter if it's that or they're moving elsewhere in 2021, it results to the same thing. I'm not sure why you're disregarding other clubs retaining. Like I said if we're waiting until the end of the season to fill our salary cap out there will be almost no one left (look at what was left at the end of last season). So we'll be relying on the players breaking contract but we're still going to run into the same issues if there is competition for the player if we have the same recruitment approach.
 

speedy2460

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When someone uses the heading "Bad Recruiting" it appears that they are forming an opinion on the matter.
It appears as though the writer thinks he has more knowledge than the club officials who
are doing the recruiting.
Well lets be very clear. The people who have been appointed to do the recruiting, know all the facts.
They know the financial position. They have meetings and decide who would be the best fit for the club.
And they have decades of experience at the highest level. They know what they are doing.
I dont believe that the poster knows any of the facts. Watching the Fatty Show does not qualify anyone to be an expert.
 

Natboy

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Not sure how it's "dead and buried". A lot of the good players available after November have now been retained meaning we can't sign them. It doesn't matter if it's that or they're moving elsewhere in 2021, it results to the same thing. I'm not sure why you're disregarding other clubs retaining. Like I said if we're waiting until the end of the season to fill our salary cap out there will be almost no one left (look at what was left at the end of last season). So we'll be relying on the players breaking contract but we're still going to run into the same issues if there is competition for the player if we have the same recruitment approach.
We aren’t waiting mate don’t stress.
People are complaining we aren’t trying to sign anyone but then the same people are complaining because we are missing out on signings?!?
 

Howard Moon

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I would much rather us be calculated and pick up the odd quality signing like your DWZs, CHNs, NAPAs, and wait for the right marquee player, then be a desperate looking club like the Tigers, who throw stupid money at anybody who goes on the market... there is a reason why Tigers haven't made a marquee signing in what seems like a decade or more
 

DinkumDog

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I would much rather us be calculated and pick up the odd quality signing like your DWZs, CHNs, NAPAs, and wait for the right marquee player, then be a desperate looking club like the Tigers, who throw stupid money at anybody who goes on the market... there is a reason why Tigers haven't made a marquee signing in what seems like a decade or more
Agree. In another thread someone asked if the Tigers had suffered any injuries in their contact session with us. I suggested maybe some financial injuries due to throwing massive dollars at several duds over the years :-)
 

Sleeky

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The Broncs are masters at making people break contracts to come over. Must be the name? Or Management? Whatever it is, we need a little shrewdness at Canterbury
 

Howard Moon

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Agree. In another thread someone asked if the Tigers had suffered any injuries in their contact session with us. I suggested maybe some financial injuries due to throwing massive dollars at several duds over the years :-)

I understand it's hard for them to attract players, but they do it to themselves.. no serious marquee player is going to see them as attractive because they know they will be in a team who spends a huge chunk of its cap on fringe players or has beens.. that's what I believe our board is trying to avoid.. just because we've been at the bottom for a few years does not mean it's desperation stations and I believe the team we have currently will get us back into the 8 this year, and then we can unleash the so called "war chest"
 
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