Opinion Why Gus signing an experienced half is almost a certain

[Headmix]

Short answer = yes.

Long answer = the current progression through the juniors means the big, hard running guys dominate and the smaller, smarter, craftier players drop away. Weight limits combined with age is the answer but there is a lot of push back over that based on the misconception of racial discrimination.


Always a Bulldog

That makes sense. I wonder how guys like Sam walker slipped through…probably the most exciting 7 since Joey IMO

 

[GDR]

Short answer = yes.

Long answer = the current progression through the juniors means the big, hard running guys dominate and the smaller, smarter, craftier players drop away. Weight limits combined with age is the answer but there is a lot of push back over that based on the misconception of racial discrimination.


Always a Bulldog

You left out the fact that junior footballers especially halves are over coached these days and when they get to the big leagues they cannot adapt as they are too robotic.. i.e Flanagan

 

[gbrussell]

From my recent experiences in Junior League 2013 to 2018, I can also say there are lots of players who are not coached properly, particularly in defence.

Defence is why a lot of players in under 20's never get past that grade, or take a long while to get to NRL because 1st Grade coaches see them as not yet ready for the step up. It is also why you see under 20's games for a number of years end up with scores like 40 points to 32.

I have seen numerous players who are big for their age totally dominate until they get to Harold Matthews when they get found out. This is mainly because junior coaches use the players ability to stampeed through opposing defences and not teach them other facets of the game needed to be a top player. They prioritise winning the competition which that one player who is big for his age can deliver until the smaller players grow to a similar size.

 

[Cappuccino]

Agree, have a feeling Kikau might be a target for 2023…

Tpj is our kikau now

 

[Bulldogsteve]

From my recent experiences in Junior League 2013 to 2018, I can also say there are lots of players who are not coached properly, particularly in defence.

Defence is why a lot of players in under 20's never get past that grade, or take a long while to get to NRL because 1st Grade coaches see them as not yet ready for the step up. It is also why you see under 20's games for a number of years end up with scores like 40 points to 32.

I have seen numerous players who are big for their age totally dominate until they get to Harold Matthews when they get found out. This is mainly because junior coaches use the players ability to stampeed through opposing defences and not teach them other facets of the game needed to be a top player. They prioritise winning the competition which that one player who is big for his age can deliver until the smaller players grow to a similar size.

certain clubs i agree do coach very poorly, and these are the clubs have alot of big Polynesian boys. Clubs like Cabra come to mind, very poorly coached in alot of young age groups. I coach at a club where we are predominately none Polynesian so therefore we need to coach them the correct defensive technique and structures to succeed. Usually the smaller white guy catches up and the passes the Polynesian boys over time. the poly boys are just so much bigger at certain age groups unfortunately. I wish we had 2 front rowers but the demographic in the hills shire is very few and far between.

 

[chisdog]

Find it hard to believe out of the thousands of league players in the nsw and qld system we can’t find one halfback who has potential …fuck me are they all just gym junkie forwards???

NSW changed the rules for halves in junior league competitions for many years (making a 2 pass rule) which caused a hole in the ranks. The changed it back a few years ago but it's going to take time for it to bear fruit.

Blues sold a dummy when junior rules were changed

NSW's long wait for another Andrew ''Joey'' Johns-style halfback may be over … in another 15 years or so. A major review of the rules governing games of rugby league for children is planned but, typically, Queensland went their own way 20 years ago and have already had their revolution. In 1982...

www.smh.com.au

 

[Bulldogsteve]

NSW changed the rules for halves in junior league competitions for many years (making a 2 pass rule) which caused a hole in the ranks. The changed it back a few years ago but it's going to take time for it to bear fruit.

Blues sold a dummy when junior rules were changed

NSW's long wait for another Andrew ''Joey'' Johns-style halfback may be over … in another 15 years or so. A major review of the rules governing games of rugby league for children is planned but, typically, Queensland went their own way 20 years ago and have already had their revolution. In 1982...

www.smh.com.au

that rule is still in, nothing has changed but ends after under 12's. They can run the football one out if they are wearing the vest, same as the DH. Therefore not passing it. It was designed to stop them just giving the ball the one kid who score every time he got the football.

 

[gbrussell]

certain clubs i agree do coach very poorly, and these are the clubs have alot of big Polynesian boys. Clubs like Cabra come to mind, very poorly coached in alot of young age groups. I coach at a club where we are predominately none Polynesian so therefore we need to coach them the correct defensive technique and structures to succeed. Usually the smaller white guy catches up and the passes the Polynesian boys over time. the poly boys are just so much bigger at certain age groups unfortunately. I wish we had 2 front rowers but the demographic in the hills shire is very few and far between.

My coaching life was in 2 stages. Initially I took up coaching in 1993 after retiring from refereeing the year before.

I was out of it for 10 or so years when one day my then 19 year old stepson came home and proudly announced he was the coach of our local under 12's who the previous year had an average of 30 points per game scored against them.

Then it suddenly dawned on me that he didn't have a coaching certificate. He then informed me that because I have one he could coach under my supervision. My wife was not amused losing the both of us on Saturdays. I stayed in the role for 6 years as the desire to improve players returned. He got the certificate half way through the 1st season.

Needless to say I concentrated on the defensive side of the game while my son planned the attacking strategies. Gradually we improved and snuck into the semis in 4th place in the second season. We won the comp in our 3rd and 4th seasons.

After that a lot of the lads discovered girls and gradually the team drifted away.

I had a lad of Tongan heritage who was small but muscly. I made the mistake of holding a tackling bag which he hit pretty hard and sent my then near 60 year old body flying. Never again did I hold the bag for him.

The legacy is now those boys are in their early 20's and 3 of them have been coaching for 4 years now. 2 of them have coached premiership teams.

I am very proud to have been associated with them.

 

[silverelvis69]

We need a Fkn hooker- why can’t anyone see this

 

[Disposable Hero]

We need a Fkn hooker- why can’t anyone see this

is Juicy Lucy still hanging around Parra?

 

[DogDays]

I’ll say it again. We should’ve gone all in for Reynolds. SJ is soft as sorbelene lucky we didn’t get him. You look at him and he does an ACL. I think with Burton gaining experience in big games with Penrith will be okay for next year. BBO can be the 7, and just like all great halves pairings let them grow together. I feel that’s it

I think I agree. Let’s let Burton run the show and let someone grow with him. Young Bailey has a big future if we show some confidence in him.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I think I agree. Let’s let Burton run the show and let someone grow with him. Young Bailey has a big future if we show some confidence in him.

When has that ever been successful? Foran/DCE @ Manly is the only recent on that comes to mind

 

[DogDays]

When has that ever been successful? Foran/DCE @ Manly is the only recent on that comes to mind

I don’t know Dafty, just a hunch.

I don’t know of other half backs on the market that will add value for us at the right price.

I haven’t read the entire thread, who are you thinking?

 

[B-Train]

When has that ever been successful? Foran/DCE @ Manly is the only recent on that comes to mind

In recent years younger halves pairings like Luai/Cleary, Brown/Moses and Hutchinson/Walker have been on top 5 teams.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

In recent years younger halves pairings like Luai/Cleary, Brown/Moses and Hutchinson/Walker have been on top 5 teams.

Cleary had Maloney to help him develop and then struggled for a year without him..Brown lol seriously? Parra would be a hell of a lot better without him. The roosters pairing...they had Teddy, Keary is still there even if injured.

I think the point still stands and it's incredibly unlikely a young halves pairing is going to work without any sort of quality guidance from within the playing group, especially in a system like ours where we're reliant on a halfback consistently performing at a top level.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I don’t know Dafty, just a hunch.

I don’t know of other half backs on the market that will add value for us at the right price.

I haven’t read the entire thread, who are you thinking?

Pearce is the only player that might be available that fits the bill, but it's Pearce..

 

[steeliz]

that rule is still in, nothing has changed but ends after under 12's. They can run the football one out if they are wearing the vest, same as the DH. Therefore not passing it. It was designed to stop them just giving the ball the one kid who score every time he got the football.

The line in that article that is most relevant to us:

" NSW are restricted to the Roosters' Mitchell Pearce who could not be described as a clever footballer. "

 

[B-Train]

Cleary had Maloney to help him develop and then struggled for a year without him..Brown lol seriously? Parra would be a hell of a lot better without him. The roosters pairing...they had Teddy, Keary is still there even if injured.

I think the point still stands and it's incredibly unlikely a young halves pairing is going to work without any sort of quality guidance from within the playing group, especially in a system like ours where we're reliant on a halfback consistently performing at a top level.

I'm not talking about the individual merits of each player, I'm just saying that you can still be a top five team with a younger halves combo.

I think Burton is talented and composed enough that he doesn't need an injury prone, ball hogging washed up half like Pearce to babysit him. Pearce would only get in the way. I think we'll be fine with Burton and BBO and wouldn't want to sign an experienced player for the sake of it.

You and plenty of other people wanted to sign Shaun Johnson but surprise, surprise he got injured again and had a few shit games before he got injured. One game he missed nearly ten tackles. So all of the experienced options that are out there still have their flaws like younger players would.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I'm not talking about the individual merits of each player, I'm just saying that you can still be a top five team with a younger halves combo.

I think Burton is talented and composed enough that he doesn't need an injury prone, ball hogging washed up half like Pearce to babysit him. Pearce would only get in the way. I think we'll be fine with Burton and BBO and wouldn't want to sign an experienced player for the sake of it.

You and plenty of other people wanted to sign Shaun Johnson but surprise, surprise he got injured again and had a few shit games before he got injured. One game he missed nearly ten tackles. So all of the experienced options that are out there still have their flaws like younger players would.

I don't think it will be fine, the halfback position is just way too important to us right now so unless Baz changes things up I don't see things working out all that well. Jake is also clearly ahead of BBO is Baz's plans.

 

[B-Train]

I don't think it will be fine, the halfback position is just way too important to us right now so unless Baz changes things up I don't see things working out all that well.

I don't have much confidence in Barrett either but I think Burton's talent and composure as well as the impact of the other signings will gloss over some of Baz's coaching flaws.

I also think BBO has looked right at home in FG and will only improve with a full offseason and training with Burton. I'd rather see those two grow and develop together over a full season than signing any of the experienced players that are being mentioned.