Vegans cause chaos in Australia's capital cities

[Hacky McAxe]

Evidence that they WANT you to see, most of which is footage from overseas abattoirs or 20 years old and recycled footage.

The truth is that animals HAVE TO, BY LAW, be stunned humanely by law. The only exception is kosher/halal meat of which only about 10 abattoirs in Australia are allowed to process meat by kosher/halal practices. That involves slitting the throats THEN stunning them.

Animals can't be shot or killed any other way as it fucks up and damages the meat and cuts (which is the last thing you want as a primary producer).

I know someone that owns a small butchery.

Yep. Australia is pretty good.

Side note on the halal slaughter houses, they still stun the animal in most cases. They just use a temporary stun so the animal is still alive but unconscious.

That's only for cows though. Sheep and chickens are slaughtered while alive and conscious.

 

[K E]

 

[Bad Billy]

Fuck that, slap me with a brisket!

Wait till I get my new kamado. Then it’s briskets all round.

 

[Wolfmother]

You’re not vegan, but you’re female. Sort of the same thing tbh.

Must feel good to dismiss facts and live in fairy land

 

[Wolfmother]

Depends on the situation. It's illegal to torture animals but it's not illegal to lock them up in small cages, put them in overpopulated areas where they end up getting trampled to death, transport them in horrible conditions, it's even not illegal to remove the beak of a living chicken.

Most places treat animals well. Unfortunately our laws do allow for some torture of animals including poor live export practices.

This is what they should be boycotting more than anything.

The dominion documentary which I havent seen and don't want to see apparently shows animal cruelty in actual Australian farming.. The makers used drones, hidden cameras etc to capture true farm practises.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

The dominion documentary which I havent seen and don't want to see apparently shows animal cruelty in actual Australian farming.. The makers used drones, hidden cameras etc to capture true farm practises.

Yep. Unfortunately it still happens as farms aren't actively audited and it's cheaper and faster to just be cruel to the animals.

Most farmers are good though. The problem isn't really the small farms, it's the legislation that allows factory farming.

Factory farming has some of the highest animal cruelty in the world, and its perfectly legal in Australia. Approximately 95% of our meat comes from factory farms. That's why free range meat is so important.

Fortunately Australia introduced some protection laws. In 2017 we introduced a law that lowers the amount of time a pig can be locked in a cage the size of them unable to move. Unfortunately they can still can be locked in these cages at 10 days at a time.

Chickens have no restriction. They can spend their entire lives in cages. And in the case of tight barns farmers are allowed to remove a chickens beak to stop it attacking other chickens (which they do due to the stress of being in a confined space) Fortunately Australian law does prevent the chickens from being injected with hormones.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

That's one thing I'll give the Muslims. Part of the halal method is that the animal has to be treated well during its life. Unfortunately the definition of "well" falls over in certain areas. Most halal certifiers accept live export as fine, even though it massively harms animals. In Indonesia there was rampant cruelty in their slaughter houses and it was ignored by the halal certifiers.

 

[Wolfmother]

That's one thing I'll give the Muslims. Part of the halal method is that the animal has to be treated well during its life. Unfortunately the definition of "well" falls over in certain areas. Most halal certifiers accept live export as fine, even though it massively harms animals. In Indonesia there was rampant cruelty in their slaughter houses and it was ignored by the halal certifiers.

This type of information needs to be made public. Vegans are getting a hard time being thrown into the same basket as Bible bashers trying to force their 'beliefs' onto others when in fact they're actually trying to educate people with facts

 

[Hacky McAxe]

This type of information needs to be made public. Vegans are getting a hard time being thrown into the same basket as Bible bashers trying to force their 'beliefs' onto others when in fact they're actually trying to educate people with facts

It is public knowledge, it's just that it isn't shown every day. Groups like Makeitpossible.com Voiceless.org.au and animalsaustralia.org do everything they can to bring the horrible stuff to light and their reports are often shown on the news. Problem is that one news report every 6 months isn't enough and it's quickly forgotten. People also prefer to just ignore it's happening. It's like some of the atrocities that happen to humans in other countries. It makes us uncomfortable so we pretend it doesn't happen.

The groups I named above are very good at bringing this stuff to light. Unfortunately there's some not so good groups. PETA is a prime example. They have a history of lying about things to make them look worse and doing some pretty horrible stuff, including taking animals off people and putting them down because they think the animals are being mistreated, even if they aren't.

Veganism is a tough thing. Most people are vegan because they think that all animals should not be killed or consumed. Unfortunately the world is not that simple. I'm not against the consumption of animals, just animal cruelty. Animals can be bred for meat and still live happy lives. But I also respect anyone who would abstain from eating meat. Factory farming is also terrible for the environment so that's another good reason to avoid eating meat. But there are other sides. Many vegan groups protest against animal culls. But animal culls, while horrible, are necessary for balance.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

The other major problem with factory farming is the cost factor. People had farmer aids when there was drought and flooding, but the main reason the farmers need aid is due to factory farming. We've created a culture where it's not unreasonable to eat meat 3 times per day. That creates a massive demand which is filled by factory farms. This in turn lowers the cost of meat, which means that normal farmers are no longer making much money for their meat. Basically, as a farmer if you do the right thing and protect animals from cruelty then you struggle to survive.

The same issue hit the milk industry. Farmers gather milk and sell it to supermarkets at a low percentage of the final sale cost. But supermarkets also get their milk from factory farms so farmers have to reduce their prices to match the factory farms. Fortunately we can counter this by buying the more expensive milk, but most people won't.

But cow milk raises another problem. You have to keep in mind how cow milk is produced. A cow will only produce milk after giving birth, so cows are artificially inseminated and kept pregnant as often as possible. When a calf is born it is taking away from the mother. In a normal farm setting the calf is usually raised unless it's a male in which case it's often killed early for veal. If there are an excess of female then they are killed for veal as well, but cows are very rarely in excess on normal farms. Usually the cows are taken away to another farm to be raised as meat cows. Unfortunately studies have showed that taking a calf away from its mother is just like a human child being taken away from its mother. The mother mourns the loss of the child.

Factory farms are much worse though. They often kill excess calves on the spot.

 

[Wolfmother]

It is public knowledge, it's just that it isn't shown every day. Groups like Makeitpossible.com Voiceless.org.au and animalsaustralia.org do everything they can to bring the horrible stuff to light and their reports are often shown on the news. Problem is that one news report every 6 months isn't enough and it's quickly forgotten. People also prefer to just ignore it's happening. It's like some of the atrocities that happen to humans in other countries. It makes us uncomfortable so we pretend it doesn't happen.

The groups I named above are very good at bringing this stuff to light. Unfortunately there's some not so good groups. PETA is a prime example. They have a history of lying about things to make them look worse and doing some pretty horrible stuff, including taking animals off people and putting them down because they think the animals are being mistreated, even if they aren't.

Veganism is a tough thing. Most people are vegan because they think that all animals should not be killed or consumed. Unfortunately the world is not that simple. I'm not against the consumption of animals, just animal cruelty. Animals can be bred for meat and still live happy lives. But I also respect anyone who would abstain from eating meat. Factory farming is also terrible for the environment so that's another good reason to avoid eating meat. But there are other sides. Many vegan groups protest against animal culls. But animal culls, while horrible, are necessary for balance.

These activists need to enter schools and teach kids about what really goes on.. That'll pretty much grind factory farming and cruel animal exporting to a halt in a few years

 

[Mr Invisible]

@Hacky McAxe Outof interest .. how do your views on this go, considering you are a big meat eater aren't you? Didn't you attend Meatstock?

Don't those views conflict with your comments on here?

The dominion documentary which I havent seen and don't want to see apparently shows animal cruelty in actual Australian farming.. The makers used drones, hidden cameras etc to capture true farm practises.

Most of it is old footage from overseas farms, stitched in with cleverly edited drone shots to make it appear as if it happens inside Australian farms.

All these raids were for, is to push their documentary to get more views, more ad exposure, and more money for their shonky tax free organisation (though that will change now they have lost charity status and been deemed a company). That's it. Ad revenue on Youtube = profits for the company owners pocket.

Everyones believed the lie that this is "for the animals". It's far from it.

This firmly falls into the "who gives a shit" factor for me. Let me clarify why: Does it really matter what an animal is treated like when it's destined for an eventual dinner plate ? That will never change, nor will eating meat. Farmers and primary producers aren't stupid. Quality meat get's a higher price tag. If you want to flog your cheap meat at the lowest price, then poor treatment of animals may happen. But if you want to demand top dollar for a quality piece of rib/beef, then you treat your animals well, because bruised meat is damaged meat, and has a lower score, and hence lower price tag. That's just one example but quails, and poultry is exactly the same. Caged = higher risk of damage to meat = lower asking price.

Humans are top of the food chain (despite what vegans think), and we've been eating meat for thousands of years.. since man first walked.

Plants are living things too, but I don't go around thinking "gees I wonder if that mint plant will mourn the loss of a few leaves I trimmed off it earlier". If plants had faces and limbs, I'm sure vegans wouldn't eat them either.

Heck how many vegans complain about how zoo animals are fed? The meat they get is all raw cuts. Tigers and Lions (and many other animals) can't exist purely on legumes and chia seeds.

There always has and always will be meat consumption and Australian laws are vastly different (and more controlling) than many other countries when it comes to the ethical and humane butchering of animals for human consumption.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

@Hacky McAxe Outof interest .. how do your views on this go, considering you are a big meat eater aren't you? Didn't you attend Meatstock?

Don't those views conflict with your comments on here?

Simple really. I care about animal welfare but I'm not against chowing down on a juicy steak.

Farm animals are bred for food. If they were intelligent enough then I wouldn't eat them. As they are dumb as a Penriff Panther then I'll happily eat them. But I'm against inhumane suffering. That's why I won't support any animal farming that puts the animals in unnecessary pain.

It's also why I support euthanasia. I don't think anyone or anything should be forced to suffer.

Most of it is old footage from overseas farms, stitched in with cleverly edited drone shots to make it appear as if it happens inside Australian farms.

It's a mixture of footage. Some old, some new. Most of the stuff they show happens right now in factory farms 'cause it's legal.

This firmly falls into the "who gives a shit" factor for me. Let me clarify why: Does it really matter what an animal is treated like when it's destined for an eventual dinner plate ?

Why not do the same for humans. Humans are eventually going to die so why isn't torture legal? Or to put it as a closer analogy. If someone contracts a terminal disease and is given 12 months to live, should we be free to make that person's life a living hell for the next 12 months?

That will never change, nor will eating meat. Farmers and primary producers aren't stupid. Quality meat get's a higher price tag. If you want to flog your cheap meat at the lowest price, then poor treatment of animals may happen. But if you want to demand top dollar for a quality piece of rib/beef, then you treat your animals well, because bruised meat is damaged meat, and has a lower score, and hence lower price tag. That's just one example but quails, and poultry is exactly the same. Caged = higher risk of damage to meat = lower asking price.

Nah, it's the opposite. Caged means that the animal moves around less which means that there is less muscle or more fat which gives you a better quality meat. This is why game meat is so tough. Beating the animals (which doesn't actually happen often in Australia fortunately) only leads to a tougher hide but softer meat. If you want the best quality meat, restrict the animals movement then massage the animal constantly to prevent muscle formation.

Plants are living things too, but I don't go around thinking "gees I wonder if that mint plant will mourn the loss of a few leaves I trimmed off it earlier". If plants had faces and limbs, I'm sure vegans wouldn't eat them either.

Not sure how that's relevant. Plants don't have pain receptors. Animals have the same pain receptors as humans. Depending on the animal though. Fish for example, have a completely different pain system.

Heck how many vegans complain about how zoo animals are fed? The meat they get is all raw cuts. Tigers and Lions (and many other animals) can't exist purely on legumes and chia seeds.

This is why most vegans don't adopt cats. But the ones that do are idiots. I have seen vegans kill cats because they refused to feed them meat.

There always has and always will be meat consumption and Australian laws are vastly different (and more controlling) than many other countries when it comes to the ethical and humane butchering of animals for human consumption.

Kill laws in Australia are actually really good. Unfortunately it's the living animal laws that's a problem.

 

[Realist90]

Must feel good to dismiss facts and live in fairy land

I literally stated 3 facts in my post. You’re not a vegan which you confirmed, you’re a strong female which you confirmed, but a vegan and female are remarkably close in nature. Nagging type species that if they don’t get their way, men suffer.
So I ask who is actually dismissing facts?

 

[Wolfmother]

I literally stated 3 facts in my post. You’re not a vegan which you confirmed, you’re a strong female which you confirmed, but a vegan and female are remarkably close in nature. Nagging type species that if they don’t get their way, men suffer.
So I ask who is actually dismissing facts?

So by saying vegans and females are similar then you're subsequently saying that men and women are similar too because vegans are both male and female.

 

[K E]

So by saying vegans and females are similar then you're subsequently saying that men and women are similar too because vegans are both male and female.

No, you've got it wrong. I think what he's trying to say is that vegans/women are inferior to people who enjoy a steak/cheeseburger/men.

It's fact, tbh. Those who enjoy a steak/men are vastly superior to anything/one else.

 

[Wolfmother]

No, you've got it wrong. I think what he's trying to say is that vegans/women are inferior to people who enjoy a steak/cheeseburger/men.

It's fact, tbh. Those who enjoy a steak/men are vastly superior to anything/one else.

So by your statement "that people who enjoy steak/cheeseburger/men , are superior to anyone else "makes your first statement that "women are inferior" untrue because women are part of the 'people' collective therefore your assessment is flawed...case closed your honor

 

[Hacky McAxe]

No, you've got it wrong. I think what he's trying to say is that vegans/women are inferior to people who enjoy a steak/cheeseburger/men.

It's fact, tbh. Those who enjoy a steak/men are vastly superior to anything/one else.

Those who enjoy a steak or a enjoy a man...

I always knew Realist was secretly gay

 

[The DoggFather]

Those who enjoy a steak or a enjoy a man...

I always knew Realist was secretly gay

Secretly? Lol

 

[south of heaven]

This type of information needs to be made public. Vegans are getting a hard time being thrown into the same basket as Bible bashers trying to force their 'beliefs' onto others when in fact they're actually trying to educate people with facts

Actually a lot of what vegans state as fscts is total bullshit .