News Staggs to test market

[Cappuccino]

We can't afford to spend 800k on another back, he will move for less.

Esp if flanno n burton go well we will need to double their contracts when their 2 yr contracts are up

 

[Cappuccino]

Kotoni cam!!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1961625103977339

 

[B-Train]

Staggs is extremely talented and might be worth that much money if he didn't have such a long injury history. Surely that would keep his price down or scare a few teams off. Any club would want to wait and see how he looks coming back from his ACL surgery before making that kind of investment.

 

[doggieaaron]

My only concern is what happens with averillo

 

[Bulldogs09]

You are travelling pretty well there mate. By my account you have 8 players out and 3 new players + some depth players. That looks like an additional 5 depth players to keep our numbers up. At an average of $200k per player that still equates to an additional $1Million and soon has an effect on the entire team balance .........50-60% of our cap tied up in perhaps 10 players........not too smart in my opinion.....

Your clearly missing the fact these blokes aren’t meant to be in first grade e.g Lewis, jmk, c Smith, britt. Yet are paid far more than they should be. A kid promoted or a depth signing (200k is not the mimimim so not to educated in what your discussing in my opinion)

Along with Napa and hoppa on around 1.3 would certainly allow some very good recruits and depth to fill the roster slots of those needing to be replaced and saving money on e.g Lewis. With burton and Flanagan our 6,7 wakeham depth and this other bo kid someone like Lewis goes and we save 200k promoting a jr or a fringe depth.

Hopefully this helps

 

[Bulldogs09]

Esp if flanno n burton go well we will need to double their contracts when their 2 yr contracts are up

Jackson off then would give us a lot of that. Dwz gone too. There’s more then enough for future planning.

They said 4 mil is off this year for us. I think Napa, hoppa, jmk, Lewis, c Smith, britt, Crichton would likely be under 3 but over 2.5.

It shows with arguably big $ to b Smith and staggs we still can afford depth/squad players around them which is what needs to be done. As I said wakeham still depth that bo kid. Lewis goes etc.

Dwz year after big $ back to cap.

Jacko year after.

Guess we will see.

 

[bradtalo]

Totally agree with Bulldogs09. What great props and edge forwards are available also ? Jackson never gets injured, plays long minutes and will be lock. Eliott, Stimson, Waddell, Doorey as back ups. Even if we shed Napa (650K back) we have 4 decent props in Thompson, Hetherington, Ogden and Atoni. RFM could play prop if needed. Edge forwards Elliott, RFM, with Waddell and Stimson and Doorey as back ups. Then we have others like Topine. If we can snag B.Smith as hooker then shed Hopa and others like Lewis etc we can easily afford Staggs or Crichton. Without another top centre we'll never compete with the top 4 teams. With Staggs or Crichton though we would actually have as good or better backs than teams like the Roosters and Souths. With a top backline our young halves and current forwards would be good enough. I'm very confident Thompson will improve this year along with Hetherington, Atoni and Ogden with Barrett's coaching and extra fitness.

Future upgrades will be easily taken care of by shedding Jackson, and DWZ etc. Promote youngsters on minimum wage which is what most of those want anyway (the ones saying we shouldn't spend big on Staggs etc). If we do spend big on a few star players more chance of younger players getting a run in the top 30 than having average players like Lewis getting decent money to play reserve grade.

 

[Bulldogs09]

Exactly my point. I’m completely aware that burton and Flanagan in 2 years will need a pay rise if kick on. Though Jackson and Dwz allow that.

If hetho develops him and Thompson could be our props. Bench props aren’t 600-650k. Cya Napa.

Hoppa out. There’s 1.3 for b Smith and staggs. We probably only need another 100-200k there really. Lewis alone gives us that when replaced by minimum wage. Now before people say minimum wage is shit depth we have wakeham and that other kid bo talked up.

Then guys like jmk britt c Smith stimson Crichton Meaney etc off contract and all on above minimum by a fair change. We can certainly replace with some good options.

Staggs and b Smith are my top two targets.

Guler or someone like this then the next if Renouf doesn’t kick on. Think Ogden is off too. If they don’t kick on theres $ for someone to try with.

If Renouf does get it together then we are well served and can look what needs most improvement though b Smith has to be priority as hooker is a must, staggs in for hoppa and we are very well set.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Jackson off then would give us a lot of that. Dwz gone too. There’s more then enough for future planning. They said 4 mil is off this year for us. I think Napa, hoppa, jmk, Lewis, c Smith, britt, Crichton would likely be under 3 but over 2.5. It shows with arguably big $ to b Smith and staggs we still can afford depth/squad players around them which is what needs to be done. As I said wakeham still depth that bo kid. Lewis goes etc. Dwz year after big $ back to cap. Jacko year after.
Guess we will see.

Having read most of your Cap management posts there are a few things that you (and others) are missing, or perhaps glossing over;

If you get rid of the Captain then someone else has to take over and they don't do it for nothing, it's a big responsibility and they will expect to get a pay rise as a result. Plus it's of no use appointing someone to lead the team who isn't an automatic, never any doubt pick for every game and hence has a contract valued accordingly. In summary I seriously doubt that we would get a captain who costs less than Jackson, especially considering his veteran player eligibility. ie; if we don't have a player eligible for the $200k Veteran Allowance then we simply don't get it. Tolman, the Mozzies are gone, Jackson and Hopoate are on your hit list, so who of your retentions has 8 years in the Top 30 with us or 10 years including other teams? If no one qualifies then we loose $200k of our Cap.

Including the Veteran Allowance the Cap is $9.7m (ignoring the 7% reduction as that won't last forever) and 30 players are required, the average being $323k. So for every $1k over $323k spent on a player you have to have another in the 30 on $1k less than $323k. But you don't get to go below $115k, the minimum for 2021.

With 30 players and an average contract term of ~3 years means that ~10 players every year have contracts expiring in 1 year from 1st November. So retaining / recruiting players is not just a next year task, it's the next 2 years. Which basically doubles the complications.

Relying on "reported" players contracts is unreliable, firstly journalists can't add up and secondly they will aim for the sensationalised $big head line (click bate). Inflating the contract value by including things that the NRL don't include in the Cap (cars, education expenses, insurance, relocation & accommodation costs etc), is a way of getting a better/bigger headline number.

It's pretty unusual to find a back up spine player on the minimum, I wouldn't want to be relying on a ~$115k player to fill the spot when a spine player is injured, on rep duty, suspended or just needs a break to freshen up for the finals. Melbourne base most of their plays around their hooker so much that they had 2 back ups for CSmith in BSmith and Grant, both of whom are on multiples of the minimum. Penrith base most of their plays around their halves, that's why they have 3 back ups. They are a bit lucky (they claim "good management") in that they have a number of grossly underpaid players who came up through their juniors, but that won't last, obviously with Burton going. They either pay more or lose the players.

As everyone knows Flanagan is on a low value contract for an NRL 1/2, we did a good deal and took advantage of the situation, but if he kills it we are looking at a substantial contract increase. If he doesn't kill it then we will be looking for someone else who will undoubtedly cost more. I'm sure the same applies to Hetherington, Averillo, Doorey, etc. In Cap planning there has to be space available to upgrade contracts every year to prevent losing players because they are underpaid. That's where not spending the last 5% can come in handy.

It's all very well to say let this player go and recruit a cheaper one who is also better, but it very rarely happens and when it does they will be looking for a pay rise the next year anyway and the year after.


Go Dogs

 

[Bulldogs09]

Having read most of your Cap management posts there are a few things that you (and others) are missing, or perhaps glossing over;

If you get rid of the Captain then someone else has to take over and they don't do it for nothing, it's a big responsibility and they will expect to get a pay rise as a result. Plus it's of no use appointing someone to lead the team who isn't an automatic, never any doubt pick for every game and hence has a contract valued accordingly. In summary I seriously doubt that we would get a captain who costs less than Jackson, especially considering his veteran player eligibility. ie; if we don't have a player eligible for the $200k Veteran Allowance then we simply don't get it. Tolman, the Mozzies are gone, Jackson and Hopoate are on your hit list, so who of your retentions has 8 years in the Top 30 with us or 10 years including other teams? If no one qualifies then we loose $200k of our Cap.

Including the Veteran Allowance the Cap is $9.7m (ignoring the 7% reduction as that won't last forever) and 30 players are required, the average being $323k. So for every $1k over $323k spent on a player you have to have another in the 30 on $1k less than $323k. But you don't get to go below $115k, the minimum for 2021.

With 30 players and an average contract term of ~3 years means that ~10 players every year have contracts expiring in 1 year from 1st November. So retaining / recruiting players is not just a next year task, it's the next 2 years. Which basically doubles the complications.

Relying on "reported" players contracts is unreliable, firstly journalists can't add up and secondly they will aim for the sensationalised $big head line (click bate). Inflating the contract value by including things that the NRL don't include in the Cap (cars, education expenses, insurance, relocation & accommodation costs etc), is a way of getting a better/bigger headline number.

It's pretty unusual to find a back up spine player on the minimum, I wouldn't want to be relying on a ~$115k player to fill the spot when a spine player is injured, on rep duty, suspended or just needs a break to freshen up for the finals. Melbourne base most of their plays around their hooker so much that they had 2 back ups for CSmith in BSmith and Grant, both of whom are on multiples of the minimum. Penrith base most of their plays around their halves, that's why they have 3 back ups. They are a bit lucky (they claim "good management") in that they have a number of grossly underpaid players who came up through their juniors, but that won't last, obviously with Burton going. They either pay more or lose the players.

As everyone knows Flanagan is on a low value contract for an NRL 1/2, we did a good deal and took advantage of the situation, but if he kills it we are looking at a substantial contract increase. If he doesn't kill it then we will be looking for someone else who will undoubtedly cost more. I'm sure the same applies to Hetherington, Averillo, Doorey, etc. In Cap planning there has to be space available to upgrade contracts every year to prevent losing players because they are underpaid. That's where not spending the last 5% can come in handy.

It's all very well to say let this player go and recruit a cheaper one who is also better, but it very rarely happens and when it does they will be looking for a pay rise the next year anyway and the year after.


Go Dogs

For one it’s not like we have players on nothing. In 3 seasons of football when Jackson is off we have guys like cotric, jac, Thompson potentially b Smith who could be here years on big $ hardly need a huge upgrade for being captain there.

Someone like Elliott if he kicks on and on top of that you could add him to take Jackson’s long term player term when the time comes.

You say we don’t get minimum wage depth, reference panthers. Burton clearly is... a kid prime example of what I’m saying maybe that bo kid is that for us? Potentially someone might be in benji a shoes? Not to mention you have forgot wakeham is depth on books already.

Also don’t dismiss Dwz off the books before Jackson too. No way a winger is paid the reported 650k he is for us when jac is reported 500k. Can’t say media figures inflated when jac is less than dwz. It comes back to the time we signed Dwz we were a mess...

The minimum wage player and low depth paid players are vital at every club. The problem we have been in is those players are paid double or more from us. We are almost out of that shit thank fjck!

The fact the bloke who has posted a photo with Arthur stated he said b Smith and staggs are our major targets are promising and logical. Hoppa and Napa out covers them almost purely because again Napa was overpaid by the flops before and hoppa was our best player for years in a shit team and paid to match it.

Hopefully we can land them both around 700k with little added. If it was 800 each I’d be happy to (with third party etc) and you would think worst case Lewis goes for a minimal wage and wakeham is our main depth then with kids and Flanagan and burton as our starters obviously.

The overpaid fringe first graders like jmk, c Smith, britt, Crichton, Ogden, meaney etc are all a way we can replace and add to the roster smarter.

We then have Dwz and Jackson freeing big $ each year to upgrade who needs it and planning. Stimson I believe is with Dwz off the books too that year who wouldn’t of come for peanuts and if he flops again can go especially with rfm Elliot doorey Jackson (for 1 more season)

 

[Spoonman84]

I'd much rather get a decent standard centre for $300k-$400k for a couple of years to bridge the gap until Schoupp or Alamoti are ready.

Of course there is a risk because Schoupp or Alamoti may never be ready but looking at the entire squad its the best option.

Blowing $700k+ on another outside back is crazy when you consider what we have already have invested there and I can't see the 'Dogs doing it.

 

[Bulldogs09]

I'd much rather get a decent standard centre for $300k-$400k for a couple of years to bridge the gap until Schoupp or Alamoti are ready.

Of course there is a risk because Schoupp or Alamoti may never be ready but looking at the entire squad its the best option.

Blowing $700k+ on another outside back is crazy when you consider what we have already have invested there and I can't see the 'Dogs doing it.

Disagree. One reason. Assuming that alamoti lives up to the hype (huge assumptions).

He’s 2 years off first grade really. By then all bar jac and staggs (assuming he signed) are at the end or a year left. Dwz certainly gone.

Not to mention if he was ready our backline would be

Allan
Jac
Alamoti
Staggs
Cotric

[emoji1]

Anyway let’s hope old mates on the money and Arthur lands them both. I’m sure we can all debate but who knows what comes. Does Dwz bail after being on the wing for a year? Does jacko cut a year short? So many things that could change our cap.

Does b Smith pass on us and leave us needing a hooker urgently with no one worth half his pay available leaving us a fuckload more?

I’m sure if we land staggs and b Smith we are top 4 potential championship threats.

Hope the club lands it! Jac and cotric as blues need to get in his ear haha

 

[Spoonman84]

Disagree. One reason. Assuming that alamoti lives up to the hype (huge assumptions).

He’s 2 years off first grade really. By then all bar jac and staggs (assuming he signed) are at the end or a year left. Dwz certainly gone.

Not to mention if he was ready our backline would be

Allan
Jac
Alamoti
Staggs
Cotric

Yeah that's fine if you're happy with the pack and hooker we have? There defiantly needs to be upgrades there which won't happen when you splash $700k + on a centre. It's not going to happen.

 

[Bulldogs09]

Yeah that's fine if you're happy with the pack and hooker we have? There defiantly needs to be upgrades there which won't happen when you splash $700k + on a centre. It's not going to happen.

Hoppa and Napa off this year covers a hooker (I’ve said b Smith has to be priority)

I don’t know yet re pack. When Stimson off if he doesn’t deliver we can get better value. Along with a bunch of others from britt Ogden c Smith Crichton meaney jmk Lewis etc all off this year.

The sad thing is they are on decent $ not minimum and they wouldn’t be at decent clubs. Wont be again with us surely.

I think Thompson and hetho could be a good pair and Renouf I’m still hoping delivers.


Jackson Elliott rfm doorey waddle topine all could be serviceable to compete there...

Then as I said stimson britt c Smith Ogden etc be replaced or step up.

Anyway as I said let’s see

 

[bradtalo]

I don't want to see any standard centres spoil a potential great backline. The backline needs to be our strength with inexperienced young halves and a decent forward pack with no real stand outs in attack besides our hooker (B.Smith)

We could re-sign Lafai for example on the cheap. Look at the difference. With a standard centre we are no real attacking threat down one side of the field. With 2 good centres we're a threat down both sides.

Remember Cotric is not a guarantee success at centre also. We need a great specialist centre and hope Cotric proves to be great also.

1 Allan
2 JAC
3 Cotric
4 Lafai
5 Okunbor

1 Allan
2 JAC
3 Cotric
4 Staggs
5 Okunbor

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I don't want to see any standard centres spoil a potential great backline. The backline needs to be our strength with inexperienced young halves and a decent forward pack with no real stand outs in attack besides our hooker (B.Smith)

We could re-sign Lafai for example on the cheap. Look at the difference. With a standard centre we are no real attacking threat down one side of the field. With 2 good centres we're a threat down both sides.

Remember Cotric is not a guarantee success at centre also. We need a great specialist centre and hope Cotric proves to be great also.

1 Allan
2 JAC
3 Cotric
4 Lafai
5 Okunbor

1 Allan
2 JAC
3 Cotric
4 Staggs
5 Okunbor

You picked a player that doesn't even have an NRL contract, of course there's a fucking difference.

 

[speedy2460]

I dont have any problem if Napa and Hopoate are moved on. They are no longer competitive.
However, I think people are being harsh on DWZ. I know he made a few errors, but every player has done that.
Once he gets his confidence back (it will take one game) he will be a real asset to the new team.
He wasnt made NZ captain because he cannot play.

 

[B-Train]

I'm surprised people aren't more scared off by his injury history considering his asking price. Or that we already have millions invested in Allen, Fox and Cotric etc so how can we justify 700k plus on Staggs when we need a hooker more than anything?

Surely we're sorted with backs for a while aside from signing some younger backs or cheaper veteran options.

 

[bradtalo]

You picked a player that doesn't even have an NRL contract, of course there's a fucking difference.

Okay here it is with Momirovski (350-400K) for example. Very average on one side of the field.

1 Allan
2 JAC
3 Cotric
4 Momirovski
5 Okunbor

For an extra 300-350K for Staggs (700K) we'd be a serious threat to all top teams on both sides of the field.

1 Allan
2 JAC
3 Cotric
4 Staggs
5 Okunbor

 

[Bulldogs09]

I'm surprised people aren't more scared off by his injury history considering his asking price. Or that we already have millions invested in Allen, Fox and Cotric etc so how can we justify 700k plus on Staggs when we need a hooker more than anything?

Surely we're sorted with backs for a while aside from signing some younger backs or cheaper veteran options.

We agree re hoooker. Though Napa and hoppa are about 100-200k short of staggs and b Smith!