Russia vs Ukraine

[alchemist]

I see your view but will throw this back that there is the Dnipro. Pretty hard to logistically defend across a river (and Kherson is on the wrong side).

Agree about the geopolitics but don't think fear is ever a great basis for a relationship.

Kherson the city, yes? Kherson the oblast, mostly no... what's worse is that you already have Russians (including an important general and reported by TASS!) discussing the restoration of the Novorossiya territories to Russia which takes everything along the coast to and including Odessa... in that case, would a devastated and landlocked Ukraine indebted to the West for generations for a host of outdated weapons be able to wage a war of liberation against Russia? like I said, everyone is gambling BIG time

fear can be a good thing --> eg. mutually assured destruction which kept the US and the USSR from going to war with each other directly, averted the Cuban Missile Crisis, brought about the nuclear arms limitation treaties etc... lack of fear saw the European powers blindly go to war in 1914 which saw the deaths of empires and 10+ million casualties

however, the most worrying aspect of the crisis is that certain players are actually acting against their own self interest... for example, it is in Europe's self interest to buy their energy cheaply from Russia and there is no substitute outside of nuclear energy for the energy they get from Russia via pipeline for the price (eg. the ships don't exist to transport the amount of liquified natural gas they need from the US, Qatar etc. to Europe not to mention the added cost of importing the gas via ship instead of pipeline)... and yet, Europe has vowed to wean itself off of Russian energy asap including reducing Russian oil by 90% by the end of the year... it's madness... the cost of living will skyrocket, the standard of living will plummet, inflation, deindustrialization, rearmament, blackouts, rationing, famine etc... the end of Europe

 

[Doogie]

Kherson the city, yes? Kherson the oblast, mostly no... what's worse is that you already have Russians (including an important general and reported by TASS!) discussing the restoration of the Novorossiya territories to Russia which takes everything along the coast to and including Odessa... in that case, would a devastated and landlocked Ukraine indebted to the West for generations for a host of outdated weapons be able to wage a war of liberation against Russia? like I said, everyone is gambling BIG time

fear can be a good thing --> eg. mutually assured destruction which kept the US and the USSR from going to war with each other directly, averted the Cuban Missile Crisis, brought about the nuclear arms limitation treaties etc... lack of fear saw the European powers blindly go to war in 1914 which saw the deaths of empires and 10+ million casualties

however, the most worrying aspect of the crisis is that certain players are actually acting against their own self interest... for example, it is in Europe's self interest to buy their energy cheaply from Russia and there is no substitute outside of nuclear energy for the energy they get from Russia via pipeline for the price (eg. the ships don't exist to transport the amount of liquified natural gas they need from the US, Qatar etc. to Europe not to mention the added cost of importing the gas via ship instead of pipeline)... and yet, Europe has vowed to wean itself off of Russian energy asap including reducing Russian oil by 90% by the end of the year... it's madness... the cost of living will skyrocket, the standard of living will plummet, inflation, deindustrialization, rearmament, blackouts, rationing, famine etc... the end of Europe

US and USSR were adversarial to begin with so think you've gone on a different tangent. Talking more Pro or Russian leaning countries being forced to be anti Europe.

The rhetoric about the land bridge to transnistria has been floating around for a while - so nothing new.

Yeah - can see the extrapolation but it won't get there - NATO will get involved b4 that happens and then all bets are off.

 

[Cappuccino]

What's Turner in there saying?
DO IT FOR THE FACILITIES BOYS
ONCE A BULLDOG, ALWAYS A BULLDOG

 

[alchemist]

US and USSR were adversarial to begin with so think you've gone on a different tangent. Talking more Pro or Russian leaning countries being forced to be anti Europe.

The rhetoric about the land bridge to transnistria has been floating around for a while - so nothing new.

Yeah - can see the extrapolation but it won't get there - NATO will get involved b4 that happens and then all bets are off.

the US and the USSR were allies in WWII... in fact, there is a train of thought that the US kept the Soviet Union in the war through the raw materials and supplies provided and which the USSR/Russia took 60 years to repay

as for pro-Russian, former Soviet republics, former Warsaw Pact members being forced to be anti-Europe --> Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia etc. all joined NATO... the Russians only drew the line when it came to Ukraine and Georgia

as for the land bridge, it has been talked about for a long time but a top Russian general quoted by the official government media outlet talking about annexing the whole Ukrainian coast is different... the longer this goes, the more Russia will want

read Biden's op-ed... as long as Russia does not attack the US or a NATO ally, they're not getting involved

 

[Doogie]

the US and the USSR were allies in WWII... in fact, there is a train of thought that the US kept the Soviet Union in the war through the raw materials and supplies provided and which the USSR/Russia took 60 years to repay

as for pro-Russian, former Soviet republics, former Warsaw Pact members being forced to be anti-Europe --> Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia etc. all joined NATO... the Russians only drew the line when it came to Ukraine and Georgia

as for the land bridge, it has been talked about for a long time but a top Russian general quoted by the official government media outlet talking about annexing the whole Ukrainian coast is different... the longer this goes, the more Russia will want

read Biden's op-ed... as long as Russia does not attack the US or a NATO ally, they're not getting involved

Allies? Read it more as the enemy of my enemy....
Russia drew the line when Putin came to power. Ukraine and Georgia were after that.
Well, you've had members of the Duma talking it up for yonks. And the entire Russian media is the official outlet these days.

You can do whatever you want. Blow up a power station in Poland. Say its a Russian missile and away we go.

 

[likeadoggy]

Has the tv actor claimed victory against russia yet?

 

[alchemist]

Has the tv actor claimed victory against russia yet?

not yet... he is getting his boogie on

 

[The DoggFather]

not yet... he is getting his boogie on

This fried **** is a leader of a country..... no wonder the world is fucked.

 

[likeadoggy]

This fried **** is a leader of a country..... no wonder the world is fucked.

yep, and people still buy into their own demise. Mind blowing. The sooner people realise the world has changed and we’re in a truth v lies war, the better.

 

[alchemist]

This fried **** is a leader of a country..... no wonder the world is fucked.

Zelensky was an actor and comedian who was hired to star in a TV show bankrolled by an oligarch, Kolomoisky, where he played the president --> "Servant of the People"... he later ran for president on the basis of his new found fame again bankrolled by the oligarch and on a peace platform since there is an ethnic, political and even linguistic divide between West/central Ukraine and east/south Ukraine and the Donbass was in open revolt

our 21st Century Churchill

 

[Grunthos]

Apparently, Putin has cancer, the world can only hope it's the aggressive noncurable type.

 

[Grunthos]

This fried **** is a leader of a country..... no wonder the world is fucked.

Maybe, but he is kicking Putin's ass.

 

[alchemist]

Apparently, Putin has cancer, the world can only hope it's the aggressive noncurable type.

according to British intelligence, Putin is already dead and the impostor we see giving speeches is his body double

 

[alchemist]

Maybe, but he is kicking Putin's ass.

must be why all those western leaders keep calling Moscow asking for a ceasefire

 

[The DoggFather]

Maybe, but he is kicking Putin's ass.

The gig is up with Putin. All bark, no bite.

 

[The DoggFather]

Apparently, Putin has cancer, the world can only hope it's the aggressive noncurable type.

Trying to resurrect the USSR before kicking the bucket?

 

[Grunthos]

according to British intelligence, Putin is already dead and the impostor we see giving speeches is his body double

I don't think so, what might happen is he will be "retired" either to a palliative sanitorium or with a 9mm and quite possibly before the year is out.
We will know something has happened if suddenly there are tanks in red square and the ceremonial guards outside the kremlin suddenly are replaced with soldiers, then the power struggle from within will begin in earnest if it hasn't already.

 

[Grunthos]

must be why all those western leaders keep calling Moscow asking for a ceasefire

As they should, Putins war is very bad for the world's economy.

 

[likeadoggy]

Apparently, Putin has cancer, the world can only hope it's the aggressive noncurable type.

I’d prefer George Bush Jr got cancer tbh. He actually killed people for no reason.

At least Putin is attempting to keep the enemy at bay ffs.

 

[likeadoggy]

according to British intelligence, Putin is already dead and the impostor we see giving speeches is his body double

lol. Why leave it at Putin?