Holland to Center

[Deathspell]

Owned

Owned,as if that one line African-American slang is supposed to carry any weight with a true blue Aussie.The only time I'm effected by that frivolous immature comment is after I lose a trial knowing full well my client is innocent.
I've got a personal vendetta against that scum and during the Bennelong's club January meeting at the Opera House I confronted him and directed some hurtful,spiteful choice words.You might insult him with your keyboard but if the opportunity presents itself again I have no hesitation in embarrassing Des in front of his peers.
So please,drop it and don't ever go there,trust me I'm an expert in verbal conflicts.

 

[wendog33]

Owned

That right edge needs an overhaul,JJ is not suited to 2nd row,Montoya is too hot and cold and Hoppa is working hard but looking ineffective.
Doesn't help that our middle 4 are letting us down,but I'm hoping with JJ at lock,he'll be able to structure the middle defense (props) better.Then maybe,we can afford to replace Lichaa,who's currently our best middle defender,with a better point of attack hooker.
Martin's fitness was an issue first few ISP games.He's now regaining the form that won him the 2016 Intrust 2nd rower of the year,even his kicking has improved.

Watch the try again.
1) At 4:23 Cronk takes on the line using Liu and Napa as decoys on Lichaa and Elliott (where the fuck was Woods?).
2) Cronk offloads to Kleary,who takes on JJ whilst Cordner runs decoy into Foran.
**Tedesco chimes in (Mbye should have moved across fast following the ball,or there should have been an extra man if Woods marked Napa and Lichaa was able to slide with the defense).
3) Kleary offloads to Tedesco just before JJ tackles him.
**Tedesco runs towards Hoppa with Mitchell and Manu on his outside (now there is a 3 on 2 overlap).Mbye still not across,Foran,JJ,Lichaa and Elliott committed.Woods created the overlap by being out of position and not following Napa.
**Montoya and Hoppa caught having to make a quick decision,does Hoppa take Tedesco,leaving a 2 on 1 with Mitchell and Manu against Montoya,or follow the pass to the outside hoping Tedesco doesn't cut out Mitchell.If Tedesco passes to Mitchell the ball can be turned back on the inside to Tedesco,who was meters out from try line.
4) Hoppa gets beaten on inside at 4:28.
There isn't 1 team in the world that could have stopped that try.

Wow why don't you write a book on your opinions, I don't care for them but maybe someone would buy it.
You should get off your high horse and stop trying to lecture me on the game I've been watching for 30plus years fucker, especially seeing you've been here for 5 mins.
People like you scrounge up a few stats and 'facts' to support you, therefore thinking you speak some undeniable truth.

Yeah I get shitty for a few days too. Sweet as mate, and I won't call you Des (even if I'm thinking it) haha.

Well I've been enjoying your contributions and analyses Deathspell.

As a matter of interest, what is your best team of the players we do have currently at the club?

 

[kaluah8123]

Owned,as if that one line African-American slang is supposed to carry any weight with a true blue Aussie.The only time I'm effected by that frivolous immature comment is after I lose a trial knowing full well my client is innocent.
I've got a personal vendetta against that scum and during the Bennelong's club January meeting at the Opera House I confronted him and directed some hurtful,spiteful choice words.You might insult him with your keyboard but if the opportunity presents itself again I have no hesitation in embarrassing Des in front of his peers.
So please,drop it and don't ever go there,trust me I'm an expert in verbal conflicts.

Change your name to despell and keep monitoring those stats as you will graduate with honours if Des ever opens a coaching school.

I hope it was interesting reading for you googling the phrase “owned” prior to you posting this reply. You have made it an educational afternoon.

Anyways keep up with your posts as they are an interesting read and I am meaning this in a genuine way unlike the above 2 paragraphs.

 

[Deathspell]

Change your name to despell and keep monitoring those stats as you will graduate with honours if Des ever opens a coaching school.

I hope it was interesting reading for you googling the phrase “owned” prior to you posting this reply. You have made it an educational afternoon.

Anyways keep up with your posts as they are an interesting read and I am meaning this in a genuine way unlike the above 2 paragraphs.

As long as we all have a laugh and we don't get personal and cross the line,it's all good,remember us Bulldog fans have thick skin.

 

[kaluah8123]

As long as we all have a laugh and we don't get personal and cross the line,it's all good,remember us Bulldog fans have thick skin.

Not Desmissing any of your facts but I would be one of many on here that watches the game for what it is, rugby league.. Stats are a valuable coaching tool but I don’t believe you can form an opinion on stats. Nothing personal about to you about any comments made they are all light hearted and I agree with a lot of things you have said regarding the rugby league we are playing.

Someone else asked this question but who is in your best starting 13?

Mine is...

1 mbye
2 bmoz
3 jmoz
4 hoppa
5 Holland
6 JMK
7 Foran
8 woods
9 Brown
10 klem
11 Elliot
12 RFM
13 Jackson

14 fualalo
15 Eastwood
16 Tomaga
17 Licha

 

[Dingo]

Well I've been enjoying your contributions and analyses Deathspell.

As a matter of interest, what is your best team of the players we do have currently at the club?

Why tag me if you have nothing to say to me? A bit passive-aggressive Wendy.

 

[wendog33]

Why tag me if you have nothing to say to me? A bit passive-aggressive Wendy.

Sorry Bulldogger ...my clumsy fingers using my phone screen tagged in your post..I thought it was just a simple post to the topic...certainly not trying to be a smarty.

 

[Bull Terrier]

So a half back playing at LEFT centre in the reggies is now the replacement for our RIGHT centre who does little wrong week in and week out. Almost all of the criticisms levelled at Hoppa are due to the poor defensive efforts of Jackson, including last week. Perhaps we can drop Jackson and bring Lewis in. Makes about as much sense.

Jackson is definetly not the same player. But his not responsible for hoppa falling over oppositon instead off tackling them. His defence is terrible and certainly not 1st grade standard.

 

[Bad Billy]

Bro WTF are you talking about? "Run ball hard and with intent","very soft and grabby in defense',looks to me you either don't watch our games objectively or you need to see an optometrist! Constructive criticism is great,but you need to back it up with facts not emotional bs.

The following stats are averaged per game. All stats excludes opposition players and Bulldogs Frawley,Brown and Tualau who have not played more then 2 NRL games this year.
Below are Hoppa's attacking and defensive stats,compared to the other 18 Bulldog players and 46 NRL centers.

Attack:

Runs:......................................3rd with 14.7...(after props Klemmer and Woods);..............2nd NRL center (after P.Sami Titans)
Meters run:.............................3rd with 118m..(after props Klemmer and Woods);..............5th NRL center
Runs over 8m:.........................4th with 8........(after Klemmer,Woods and RFM);.....equal...7th NRL center
Kick returns and meters:...........4th ................(after Mbye,B.Morris and Montoya);..equal..7th NRL center

Try assists:.....................equal 5th..................(best after spine);...............................equal 16th NRL center
Line break assists:..........equal 2nd..................(after Foran);.....................................equal..4th NRL center
Tackle breaks:................equal 3rd with 2.9.....(after Mbye and RFM);.......................equal..7th NRL center
Offloads:................................ 3rd with 1.3.....(after Woods and RFM);.....................equal..4th NRL center
Effective offloads:................... 3rd with 0.9.....(after Woods and RFM);.....................equal..5th NRL center
General play passes:.................5th with 6.6....(best after spine);..........................................3rd NRL center

***Hoppa has managed to achieve these stats in a one dimensional,slow,predictable,non creative,forward dominated structured team!

Defense:

Tackles:............................11th with 12.7...(best of our three-quarters,closest is J.Morris '13th'with 9.3);..........equal 13th NRL center
Tackle efficiency:........equal 8th with 90% (similar to JJ with 90% and Tolman 91%);......................................equal...4th NRL center

Missed tackles:..................15th with..0.9...(JJ '1st' with 2.3 and Foran '2nd' with 2.0);.....................................equal 31st NRL center
Ineffective tackles:..............9th with 0.7...(Foran '1st' with 1.4 and JJ '4th' with 1.0);.......................................equal 11th NRL center
Tries caused:..............equal 3rd with 0.7...(Montoya '1st' with 1.3 and JJ '4th' with 0.6);.................................equal 10th NRL center
Line breaks caused:.....equal 5th with 0.5...(Montoya '1st' with 0.7,Foran '3rd' with 0.6 and JJ '6th' with 0.4);..equal 15th NRL center
Errors:........................equal 5th with 0.6...(Foran '1st' with 1.1 and Montoya '2nd' with 1.0);..........................equal 26th NRL center

***All 4 members on our right side defense are fairing poorly,it's not exclusive to Hoppa.This is a due to the poor work rate of the Bulldogs middle forwards.
Lichaa is the only middle forward with acceptable stats,averaging 32.3 tackles per game (12th best hooker) for 93% efficiency (4th best hooker).

Average per game for Props/lock positions: (compared to 89 players, 55 are props and 34 are locks).

Woods:.....37th (17th prop + 20th as lock);............Tackles 24.0 for 91% efficiency.
Klemmer:.47th (equal 25th prop + 22nd as lock);..Tackles 21.9 for 93% efficiency.
Fualalo:....60th (32nd prop + 28th as lock);...........Tackles 20.6 for 92% efficiency.
Tolman:...52nd (24th lock + 28th as prop);............Tackles 21.5 for 91% efficiency.
Elliott:......73rd (30th lock + 43rd as prop);............Tackles 17.9 for 90% efficiency.

***Eastwood and Fine have not been included because they only averaged 12 tackles (83% efficiency) and 8 tackles (94% efficiency) respectively.

I've got no problem in criticizing Hoppa as I'm about to do to JJ,if he was playing as poorly as you say.
Do you expect Hoppa to lead every attacking stat in our team or the NRL? Could it be that our right side attack is poor because JJ is so pathetic in attack as a 2nd rower?

50 second rowers have played this year after discarding F.Winterstein (Manly) and Sorenson (Sharks).
JJ doesn't even rate amongst the top 20 attacking second rowers in the NRL.He's the 31st best for meters gained with a poor average of 73m per game.He's totally ineffective with 7.1m in average meters per run only beating W.Matthews (Titans) with 6.7m.

After Pay played JJ as right center,when Mbye was injured against Souths,he quickly realized that we are the only NRL team that needs to carry a dedicated back instead of an impact player,because none of our forwards except for Fine (if he's on the bench) can play center.This exhausts our interchanges,reducing the bench to a fucking joke! Thank God Pay used his creativity and turned this precarious situation to our benefit against the Cows. Besides being caught out of position numerous times JJ made it easy for Souths to stack,gang tackle and concentrate on our potent left edge,nullifying it during that important last quarter of the game.That's when you should have been using your fingers and toes to count your curses.

Holy shit !?!
Turns out hoppa is the greatest center to play the game ?!?
Why does he look like a lost 6yo out there then ?

 

[Deathspell]

Holy shit !?!
Turns out hoppa is the greatest center to play the game ?!?
Why does he look like a lost 6yo out there then ?

Because he's on an edge that has an out of form winger,a half that's continuously caught out of position in defense and a 2nd row that only averages a pathetic 73m per game.
Hoppa shouldn't be beating Montoya a winger in dummy half runs and beating JJ by 40% in average meters run.You ain't going to see flash runs from a team that starves it's backs.
We had 10 fucking sets in Easts quarter and our dud halves couldn't create 1 overlap for either edge that's worse the 6yo.
Kleary get's 1 shot and he creates a try.He get's Napa to run decoy at Elliott,Liu to run decoy at Lichaa,he runs at JJ as Cordner runs decoy at Foran,Kleary throws a pass to Tedesco before JJ got him.Now he's created an overlap 5m out ffs.Tedesco,Mitchell and Manu against Hoppa and Montoya.He started move at 4:23 and try was scored at 4:28.Where was Woods?Napa is his mark,he was out of position,didn't even try to come across and recover his blunder,you don't see sight of him throughout the try.Bro we've got bigger issues then Hoppa at least he puts the grafting work that puts most of our big heads to shame.

 

[Bad Billy]

Because he's on an edge that has an out of form winger,a half that's continuously caught out of position in defense and a 2nd row that only averages a pathetic 73m per game.
Hoppa shouldn't be beating Montoya a winger in dummy half runs and beating JJ by 40% in average meters run.You ain't going to see flash runs from a team that starves it's backs.
We had 10 fucking sets in Easts quarter and our dud halves couldn't create 1 overlap for either edge that's worse the 6yo.
Kleary get's 1 shot and he creates a try.He get's Napa to run decoy at Elliott,Liu to run decoy at Lichaa,he runs at JJ as Cordner runs decoy at Foran,Kleary throws a pass to Tedesco before JJ got him.Now he's created an overlap 5m out ffs.Tedesco,Mitchell and Manu against Hoppa and Montoya.He started move at 4:23 and try was scored at 4:28.Where was Woods?Napa is his mark,he was out of position,didn't even try to come across and recover his blunder,you don't see sight of him throughout the try.Bro we've got bigger issues then Hoppa at least he puts the grafting work that puts most of our big heads to shame.

The meters he makes means nothing if his side continues to concede 3 tries p.g.
While clearly Montoya and Foran are contributing to our defensive woes on that edge, absolving hoppa of any responsibility because he takes some runs out of our own end is not something I’m prepared to do.
He’s made as many terrible decisions as Montoya this season.

 

[Bad Billy]

Watch the try again.
1) At 4:23 Cronk takes on the line using Liu and Napa as decoys on Lichaa and Elliott (where the fuck was Woods?).
2) Cronk offloads to Kleary,who takes on JJ whilst Cordner runs decoy into Foran.
**Tedesco chimes in (Mbye should have moved across fast following the ball,or there should have been an extra man if Woods marked Napa and Lichaa was able to slide with the defense).
3) Kleary offloads to Tedesco just before JJ tackles him.
**Tedesco runs towards Hoppa with Mitchell and Manu on his outside (now there is a 3 on 2 overlap).Mbye still not across,Foran,JJ,Lichaa and Elliott committed.Woods created the overlap by being out of position and not following Napa.
**Montoya and Hoppa caught having to make a quick decision,does Hoppa take Tedesco,leaving a 2 on 1 with Mitchell and Manu against Montoya,or follow the pass to the outside hoping Tedesco doesn't cut out Mitchell.If Tedesco passes to Mitchell the ball can be turned back on the inside to Tedesco,who was meters out from try line.
4) Hoppa gets beaten on inside at 4:28.
There isn't 1 team in the world that could have stopped that try.

You can break that down any way you like, but my lifetime of playing footy, tells me; hoppa had a clean shot at a, basically stationary Mitchell, and came up with nothing.
There was no excuse for missing that tackle.

 

[Oatley Dog]

Jackson is definetly not the same player. But his not responsible for hoppa falling over oppositon instead off tackling them. His defence is terrible and certainly not 1st grade standard.

He's missed 8 tackles all season. Jackson has missed 18. You keep blaming Hoppa for the inside players mistakes. He can't trust Montoya and Jackson is a dud this year. Any other centre would've missed 30 by now if they were surrounded by that.

 

[Oatley Dog]

cant agee with that, Hoppa's defence has been woeful and has cost us points and games. Stats as you know are misleading sometimes, if we go on stats Tolman is the greatest front rower playing the game.

Tolman has never been regarded like that. He has never been more than a wholehearted tradesman who gives it everything he has every week. Defence isn't just about tackling. It's about systems and being able to rely on those inside and outside of you to do their job. That's why centre is the hardest position on the field. You have to make key decisions with every play. He no doubt has made a couple of wrong decisions so far this season but when you have a freeway coming in your direction every game and those inside and outside you acting like witches hats then its amazing that he has only missed a few. In fact if you go through the list of missed tackles by centres across the competition he is in the bottom 2 or 3 for missed tackles. So there are 30 worse defending centres in the game than Hoppa this year. Its time to get off his back and recognise that Hoppa isn't the problem. It's inside him that is costing us on the right side.

 

[Nasheed]

Definitely think if we are serious we need to see more of Holland.

 

[Nasheed]

Holland is a) Shit, and b) Shit.

I’d rather anyone in lower grades get a crack ahead of him.

this makes no sense as we score 90% of our poibnts in the 50% of time we are on the field.

 

[jasonsmith11]

holland to wing and brett morris to fullback if winning is important

 

[finchie]

Holy shit !?!
Turns out hoppa is the greatest center to play the game ?!?
Why does he look like a lost 6yo out there then ?

Hoppa is a flop
Wish he’d go back to being a Mormon permanently
Useless slow arse flop of a centre
Give me a lolesi, Harris, Tonga even a Matuai any day of the week

 

[Gabs]

He's missed 8 tackles all season. Jackson has missed 18. You keep blaming Hoppa for the inside players mistakes. He can't trust Montoya and Jackson is a dud this year. Any other centre would've missed 30 by now if they were surrounded by that.

Does it actually count as a missed tackle if Hoppa doesn't even lay a hand on the player? Because that has happened numerous times including the Mitchell try.

 

[Oatley Dog]

Does it actually count as a missed tackle if Hoppa doesn't even lay a hand on the player? Because that has happened numerous times including the Mitchell try.

Well if it did he would still be in the top 3 or 4 centres defensively because it happens to all of them. Bottom line is that Hoppa in his first season at centre in a long time is doing much better than blokes across the competition who have been doing it for years - blokes who will play origin on both sides this year.