Dean Pay - Mega Thread

[BondiBulldog]

Hopefully when the new album comes out it coincides with the Dogs having a HUGE year next year.
Yeah man that's my collection, I'm a massive punk collector.
The girl is Miss Bondi

 

[albatross]

Look here boy, you were wrong for years on maybe & i think your wrong again here

Are you Foghorn Leghorn?

 

[south of heaven]

Hopefully when the new album comes out it coincides with the Dogs having a HUGE year next year.
Yeah man that's my collection, I'm a massive punk collector.
The girl is Miss Bondi

You got any deppression on wax ?

 

[BondiBulldog]

Yeah man, Depression, Gash, Mass Appeal all early HC etc
All the early OZ Punk-Victims,Saints,Radio Birman etc

 

[Heckler]

Are you Foghorn Leghorn?

Yes, i say yes i think he is boy!

 

[good doggie]

Are you Foghorn Leghorn?

Oops my bad, meant to say Boi.

 

[dogwhisperer]

It's not about just those players, there's plenty of others. He could have easily made the changes, but he wasn't proactive enough. Our right edge was getting decimated in defence all season yet the only change came when he was forced into it. Holland was literally on the bench playing hooker yet didn't get a look in until injury hit. Montoya, Hoppa and Foran were a complete disaster together yet he stuck with them and the system despite it simply never going to work.

Lewis wasn't even in the picture yet we lucked out when he eventually got a run. JMK was rushed in ahead of him for whatever crazy reason. Martin again also only got a look in only because injury. I could go on.

Is it not possible if these changes were made earlier we could have been in a far better position to push for a spot in the 8? Is it also possible these changes never occurred unless forced through injury? This is just a part of why i'm still not convinced.

And yes i called him names and i'd do the exact same again if he pulled of those ridiculous stunts. Holland at hooker like i mentioned before, Fualalo playing on an edge over Elliott when injury hit, Klemmer on the fucking bench while we start with a rookie prop, Eastwood/Priest walking into the team despite not even being close to match fit, etc.

He got plenty wrong that he shouldn't have got wrong and there's no excuses for some of these things. Did he still get some things right? Yes. Has he improved? Yes. Did i underestimate his ability to improve? Yes.

I'm still far from comfortable with him moving forward. It doesn't matter how people want to spin things but when results mattered and the pressure was on we didn't deliver. Yh it's good to get wins to finish the season but do it when it matters and when the pressures on and then i'll change my mind.

Look, you raise some very good, valid points I must say, no one can argue at those observations. But far out Man!!....Has anyone ever told you life is not perfect. Not even Bellemy or Bennett are that perfect. The guy is a budget coach in his first freakin year and learning, he is not a million dollar coach mate. You're expectations are too high ATM.
He will be heavily scrutinised in his second year and rightly so.
Sorry but blaming him for not introducing these kids earlier is a copp out big time.
Blooding them in early is a risk mate, escpecially when you're a first year coach and you have all that experiance in your squad(ala..Foran,Woods, Eastwood etc) is it safe to go with tried and tested.
Sometimes blooding in too many youngersters at one time can backfire, but it didn't with us and thank goodness for that. It's a big gamble champ
I'm not sure if you've noticed but Pay is a players coach, the players love him, especially the youngsters. Yeh, he saw what Montoya did last year and he backed him to regain that form, he gave him time, then when he decided to drop him both Brett & Josh Morris were out, so he was forced to keep him in for another week.
Everyone forgets our previous coach who never gave anyone a run. Do you remember when one of our halves would get injured, instead of promoting a halves player from the lower grades, he'd either put Jackson at 5/8th or Trex, never promoted anyone.
FFS Pay has given about 10 ISP players a run this year.
One thing I've always been, is very open to both sides of an argument, I always call a spade a spade...but one thing I cannot stand is straw man arguments.
Put it this way...if Marley is not convinced, but Lachlan Lewis is...then sorry I'm going with Lewis.

 

[dogwhisperer]

I am not convinced that the recent wins are because of Pays coaching, we need to see how the team performs next year to really see the Pay influence.

Look man, if you want to come out with that statement then you'd have to say that you're not convinced our losses were because of Pay's coaching as well.
Works both ways mate. Depends if you look at the glass half full or half empty.
I feel for Pay, he's damned if we lose and he's damned if we win.
The guy should just stick his finger up at us, leave and tell us to go rebuild our own club, then we can go back to buying overpaid hacks and then we'll all be happy right?

 

[Mr Invisible]

One thing I think Pay is doing well at, is slowly easing players in to first grade. Possibly some experience with his Origin coaching showing through there.

The players seem to want to play well for him, and it seems a really nice close knit group is forming around players and coach.

 

[dogwhisperer]

One thing I think Pay is doing well at, is slowly easing players in to first grade. Possibly some experience with his Origin coaching showing through there.

The players seem to want to play well for him, and it seems a really nice close knit group is forming around players and coach.

Nah bro, Let's go back to the Hasler days, let's go back to Desball.
We finally get someone who is slowly shaking out all the Hasler desball mentality out of the players, and we're seeing a refreshing expansive style of footy with some very bulldog like defence and we still have the negative nancies who are still not happy.

I'll tell ya a beauty. This is an example of how dumb these knuckle heads are.
Have you read how people are saying we're winning because there's no pressure on us.
Have they ever truly wondered that it might have taken some time for Pay to get the players used to the way he wants them to play after learning how to play Desball for 6 freakin years, instead of the easy cop out saying "theres no pressure on us"?
Have you seen that we're not slipping into desball when we're tired like we did in the first half of the year? Have you noticed we're not standing flat in attack anymore? Have you noticed the momentum in each play, the players aren't standing there looking at each other anymore? Has anyone noticed our front rowers don't think they are wearing the number 7 on their backs anymore?

Why doesn't anyone bring these things up?
Why do they insist on bringing up other garbage instead?
Bloody cowards...you all know who you are!

I was listening to Adam Elliott on big sports breakfast on Monday morning, I don't care what anyone says, but this kid has more heart than all of us on the kennel put together.
He said Pay always drills into them the importance of the fans. Pay always tells them to play for the fans. He tells them to take the perspective of the supporter from the outside looking in. To win for the fans.
Yes thats us the fans. Pay gives a shit about the fans. When did Hasler ever care about the fans?

As if that comment alone from Elliot doesn't make you proud to be a Bulldog!!

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Look, you raise some very good, valid points I must say, no one can argue at those observations. But far out Man!!....Has anyone ever told you life is not perfect. Not even Bellemy or Bennett are that perfect. The guy is a budget coach in his first freakin year and learning, he is not a million dollar coach mate. You're expectations are too high ATM.
He will be heavily scrutinised in his second year and rightly so.
Sorry but blaming him for not introducing these kids earlier is a copp out big time.
Blooding them in early is a risk mate, escpecially when you're a first year coach and you have all that experiance in your squad(ala..Foran,Woods, Eastwood etc) is it safe to go with tried and tested.
Sometimes blooding in too many youngersters at one time can backfire, but it didn't with us and thank goodness for that. It's a big gamble champ
I'm not sure if you've noticed but Pay is a players coach, the players love him, especially the youngsters. Yeh, he saw what Montoya did last year and he backed him to regain that form, he gave him time, then when he decided to drop him both Brett & Josh Morris were out, so he was forced to keep him in for another week.
Everyone forgets our previous coach who never gave anyone a run. Do you remember when one of our halves would get injured, instead of promoting a halves player from the lower grades, he'd either put Jackson at 5/8th or Trex, never promoted anyone.
FFS Pay has given about 10 ISP players a run this year.
One thing I've always been, is very open to both sides of an argument, I always call a spade a spade...but one thing I cannot stand is straw man arguments.
Put it this way...if Marley is not convinced, but Lachlan Lewis is...then sorry I'm going with Lewis.

It isn't about being perfect, it's about being better! A coach is always learning and improving, no matter if he's a rookie or veteran. Like i said Pay has improved, but that still doesn't change the fact that these were forced changes and that is my point here. Saying it was risky to blood them earlier or not is irrelevant in this situation.

Nah bro, Let's go back to the Hasler days, let's go back to Desball.
We finally get someone who is slowly shaking out all the Hasler desball mentality out of the players, and we're seeing a refreshing expansive style of footy with some very bulldog like defence and we still have the negative nancies who are still not happy.

I'll tell ya a beauty. This is an example of how dumb these knuckle heads are.
Have you read how people are saying we're winning because there's no pressure on us.
Have they ever truly wondered that it might have taken some time for Pay to get the players used to the way he wants them to play after learning how to play Desball for 6 freakin years, instead of the easy cop out saying "theres no pressure on us"?
Have you seen that we're not slipping into desball when we're tired like we did in the first half of the year? Have you noticed we're not standing flat in attack anymore? Have you noticed the momentum in each play, the players aren't standing there looking at each other anymore? Has anyone noticed our front rowers don't think they are wearing the number 7 on their backs anymore?

Why doesn't anyone bring these things up?
Why do they insist on bringing up other garbage instead?
Bloody cowards...you all know who you are!

I was listening to Adam Elliott on big sports breakfast on Monday morning, I don't care what anyone says, but this kid has more heart than all of us on the kennel put together.
He said Pay always drills into them the importance of the fans. Pay always tells them to play for the fans. He tells them to take the perspective of the supporter from the outside looking in. To win for the fans.
Yes thats us the fans. Pay gives a shit about the fans. When did Hasler ever care about the fans?

As if that comment alone from Elliot doesn't make you proud to be a Bulldog!!

Lol @ knuckleheads. I guess you're calling our captain Jackson a knucklehead then?

"I think we've just relaxed a little bit, there's no pressure for us to make the semis and everyone's playing a little bit more footy," Jackson said.

"This time of the year it's hard for the teams in the top eight because the teams in the bottom of the competition are willing to push a pass and put a kick in that they wouldn't have done normally."

He literally says right here the lack of pressure is helping them play a bit more footy and they're more willing to push a pass or kick. How many of our tries in recent weeks have been off the back of us just throwing the ball around and some individuals coming up with some plays? Most of them.

Then there's Smith that has also talked said this.

"We can't make finals and a few weeks ago we said 'man, let's just go and play some footy, we'll do this play, we'll do that play, it doesn't matter, we've got nothing to lose',"

Again this completely supports my point. The lack of pressure is helping us play footy, FACT. Whether this is the type of footy Pay wanted us to play all season long or not we don't know. All we know is that we're getting results when it doesn't matter and the lack of pressure is helping us perform.

Like i said before, when we get results when the pressures on then that's a completely different story and that's when i'l get excited...because although we tried all season long and stayed close we rarely ever looked like winning footy until now.

 

[Kila R Ralai]

Look man, if you want to come out with that statement then you'd have to say that you're not convinced our losses were because of Pay's coaching as well.
Works both ways mate. Depends if you look at the glass half full or half empty.
I feel for Pay, he's damned if we lose and he's damned if we win.
The guy should just stick his finger up at us, leave and tell us to go rebuild our own club, then we can go back to buying overpaid hacks and then we'll all be happy right?

Mate you are on point;
- playing players out of position.
- not promoting young players
- boring game plan
- not kicking on the last
- poor bench rotation

The list goes on, yet Pay in his rookie year comes along makes lots of positive changes and still we are not happy.

 

[justdogs]

Mate you are on point;
- playing players out of position.
- not promoting young players
- boring game plan
- not kicking on the last
- poor bench rotation

The list goes on, yet Pay in his rookie year comes along makes lots of positive changes and still we are not happy.

I'll give him 10-15 games next year, before I rate him

 

[BELMORE]

I'll give him 10-15 games next year, before I rate him

How long did it take you to hate him?

 

[dogwhisperer]

It isn't about being perfect, it's about being better! A coach is always learning and improving, no matter if he's a rookie or veteran. Like i said Pay has improved, but that still doesn't change the fact that these were forced changes and that is my point here. Saying it was risky to blood them earlier or not is irrelevant in this situation.



Lol @ knuckleheads. I guess you're calling our captain Jackson a knucklehead then?

"I think we've just relaxed a little bit, there's no pressure for us to make the semis and everyone's playing a little bit more footy," Jackson said.

"This time of the year it's hard for the teams in the top eight because the teams in the bottom of the competition are willing to push a pass and put a kick in that they wouldn't have done normally."

He literally says right here the lack of pressure is helping them play a bit more footy and they're more willing to push a pass or kick. How many of our tries in recent weeks have been off the back of us just throwing the ball around and some individuals coming up with some plays? Most of them.

Then there's Smith that has also talked said this.

"We can't make finals and a few weeks ago we said 'man, let's just go and play some footy, we'll do this play, we'll do that play, it doesn't matter, we've got nothing to lose',"

Again this completely supports my point. The lack of pressure is helping us play footy, FACT. Whether this is the type of footy Pay wanted us to play all season long or not we don't know. All we know is that we're getting results when it doesn't matter and the lack of pressure is helping us perform.

Like i said before, when we get results when the pressures on then that's a completely different story and that's when i'l get excited...because although we tried all season long and stayed close we rarely ever looked like winning footy until now.

Man, you will travel to the moon just to prove Pay is a shit coach.
Those responses from the players are just generic answers. Take it with a grain of salt.
It's like a player gets asked a question about his 5 star performance and gives a typical rugby league answer like "All credit to my forwards, they keep going forward, it makes my job easier" It's called humility mate.
Avoiding the wooden spoon is enough pressure in itself.

No worries bro, throwing the ball around ay? That's why we finished with an 86% completion rate because we threw the ball around.
It's a new style of play, Desball is being eroded away, the players are confident in their own abilities thanks to some coach making them beleive in themselves and getting them excited about footy again.

 

[GDR]

Man, you will travel to the moon just to prove Pay is a shit coach.
Those responses from the players are just generic answers. Take it with a grain of salt.
It's like a player gets asked a question about his 5 star performance and gives a typical rugby league answer like "All credit to my forwards, they keep going forward, it makes my job easier" It's called humility mate.
Avoiding the wooden spoon is enough pressure in itself.

No worries bro, throwing the ball around ay? That's why we finished with an 86% completion rate because we threw the ball around.
It's a new style of play, Desball is being eroded away, the players are confident in their own abilities thanks to some coach making them beleive in themselves and getting them excited about footy again.

Don't waste your time on egotistical morons that cannot see the Forrest from the trees.. there is only one way us supporters should be looking at the recent turn of form.. and that's with joy and pride.... I sometimes think some people want to curse the dogs to go bad just so they can say I told you so.... It's really quite sad..

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Man, you will travel to the moon just to prove Pay is a shit coach.
Those responses from the players are just generic answers. Take it with a grain of salt.
It's like a player gets asked a question about his 5 star performance and gives a typical rugby league answer like "All credit to my forwards, they keep going forward, it makes my job easier" It's called humility mate.
Avoiding the wooden spoon is enough pressure in itself.

No worries bro, throwing the ball around ay? That's why we finished with an 86% completion rate because we threw the ball around.
It's a new style of play, Desball is being eroded away, the players are confident in their own abilities thanks to some coach making them beleive in themselves and getting them excited about footy again.

So when you pulled quotes from a player to support a point it isn't a generic answer but when i do it is? Lol okay, makes sense.

The fact that you want to completely disregard the lack of pressure is completely ridiculous. 86% completion rate? That only further supports my point on the lack of pressure. Pressure plays a major part in sports, the best of the best across all sports all seem to handle pressure better than anyone else, that's why they're the best. The lack of pressure has clearly helped us, just like it did last season. The only thing up for debate is how much of an impact it has had.

And no i'm not trying to prove Pay is a shit coach, i'll even go as far as to retract all my previous statements saying Pay was a shit coach. He has got the boys up for pretty much every game and the right mindset looks to have slowly developed over the year.

This late run of form doesn't change much, when the results mattered we didn't get them. I fucking pray that the boys and staff take some of this belief in their abilities to next season, but for this to come so late and after a few key changes shows that it's more than just the boys adjusting to Pays systems.

 

[justdogs]

How long did it take you to hate him?

get a life mate, I never said that I hate him

 

[dogwhisperer]

So when you pulled quotes from a player to support a point it isn't a generic answer but when i do it is? Lol okay, makes sense.

The fact that you want to completely disregard the lack of pressure is completely ridiculous. 86% completion rate? That only further supports my point on the lack of pressure. Pressure plays a major part in sports, the best of the best across all sports all seem to handle pressure better than anyone else, that's why they're the best. The lack of pressure has clearly helped us, just like it did last season. The only thing up for debate is how much of an impact it has had.

And no i'm not trying to prove Pay is a shit coach, i'll even go as far as to retract all my previous statements saying Pay was a shit coach. He has got the boys up for pretty much every game and the right mindset looks to have slowly developed over the year.

This late run of form doesn't change much, when the results mattered we didn't get them. I fucking pray that the boys and staff take some of this belief in their abilities to next season, but for this to come so late and after a few key changes shows that it's more than just the boys adjusting to Pays systems.

Ok cool, so Pay isn’t a shit coach. I agree with you on that one.

But you really got to take it easy before you burst a blood vessel bro

 

[Howard Moon]

No team can do well without a conductor it's as simple as that, and I too was critical of Pay, but play any team in this comp with JMK, Frawley, Mbye and Lichaa as the spine and see how they fair.. that's how I look at our season up until the past couple of months with Lewis and co