Consolidated Pay Thread

[bradyk]

Mate I hear what you are saying, but at the end of the day the buck stops with the coach.

The game plan was also shit, it’s very defense oriented and out d was not up to the attack from the lowly Cowboys.

Our attack sucks because we have a winger playing fullback. A fullback playing wing. Not a good enough winger playing on the other wing. A centre that's more assist orientated. Another centre who's a winger (before the move we barely had a centre playing centre anyways). Inexperienced halves due to our best half being injured 1/3 of the time. Props that offer nothing in attack, one can barely pass a ball and they're both slow as shiz. A manufactured hooker that has faults in almost every area except speed (which he barely uses). One solid second rower that offers very little in attack. Our attacking minded second rower just got the sack so we're going to have to use a second rower that struggled to play there one year ago, who we're possibly not even going to re-sign (or are we going to play that second rower who just got dropped and has been horrible since we signed him?). The lock that everyone hates that's probably our best attacking option in our forward pack. Is that not what you see?

Just to add to this we have maybe one to three players (two of them pretty debatable) that are in the top half of the competition in their position.

The Cowboys roster is much better than ours. It's amazing what an extra 2-3m lets you do to a team isn't it.

 

[D- voice]

Here's my 2 cents worth...
I need to make it clear...I have no issues with Deano !
But...We should never forget, he signed with full knowledge of our problems, Michael McGuire did and made his choice !
Pay has every right to believe he could become a top coach and grab his opportunities.
But...I'll take you back to 1995, Pay signed a lucrative contract to stay with the Bulldogs during the supper league war, yet when the (greater) counter offer came from the ARL he didn't hesitate to lift his leg and piss on our contract and club by defecting to the slimy Eels,
I am not holding a grudge...I know it's long ago and water under the bridge, equally as a supporter I believe we have the right to demand much better than what we have been getting.

 

[bradyk]

Here's my 2 cents worth...
I need to make it clear...I have no issues with Deano !
But...We should never forget, he signed with full knowledge of our problems, Michael McGuire did and made his choice !
Pay has every right to belief he could become a top coach and grab his opportunities.
But...I'll take you back to 1995, Pay signed a lucrative contract to stay with the Bulldogs during the supper league war, yet when the (greater) counter offer came from the ARL he didn't hesitate to lift his leg and piss on our contract and club by defecting to the slimy Eels,
I am not holding a grudge...I know it's long ago and water under the bridge, equally as a supporter I believe we have the right to demand much better than what we have been getting.

And in 2021 the expectations will be much higher on the roster and Pay. If we underperform Pay will be moved on and we'll get someone else. If a top coach is available he'll be here probably regardless how Pay goes.

 

[DinkumDog]

Does Steve Georgallis deserve his shot?

Interesting point.
He did have the success in 2018 with our lower grades.
If there is to be a short term change he might be considered because he’s with the club already as opposed to bringing in someone external for a shorter term assignment which I see as less likely.
I think the club will be good to Deano whatever happens, managing his exit or restructuring the coaching staff.
Like the playing roster I’m sure there’s a plan, it’s just not public.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Interesting point.
He did have the success in 2018 with our lower grades.
If there is to be a short term change he might be considered because he’s with the club already as opposed to bringing in someone external for a shorter term assignment which I see as less likely.
I think the club will be good to Deano whatever happens, managing his exit or restructuring the coaching staff.
Like the playing roster I’m sure there’s a plan, it’s just not public.

I think Steve's time has passed for another shot. The perfect time to do it would have been just after we won reserve grade and he had a great relationship with alot of the players that have now left.

 

[DinkumDog]

I think Steve's time has passed for another shot. The perfect time to do it would have been just after we won reserve grade and he had a great relationship with alot of the players that have now left.

Don’t disagree mate. My point was more that if a change were to happen it would most likely be internal and more caretaker until a more permanent solution was implemented - not unlike when Dymock took over from Moore pre Hasler. Time will tell.

 

[D- voice]

Can this great club afford to stay in the doldrums any longer ?
In my opinion...NO
The solution...
The club should do the impossible to convince Bellamy with a mighty offer and a new challenge !
What ever extra we pay him we will save on the massive overs we will have to pay to attract marquee players, If we get any !!!
For the last several years our salary cap money has been wasted year in year out with only excuses for results !!!

 

[DoggyStyla]

And in 2021 the expectations will be much higher on the roster and Pay. If we underperform Pay will be moved on and we'll get someone else. If a top coach is available he'll be here probably regardless how Pay goes.

2021 is too late, he won’t attract better players!
It’s time for a change!

 

[bradyk]

2021 is too late, he won’t attract better players!
It’s time for a change!

What are you talking about? 2021 is when we get millions of our salary cap back. Money or success (which includes the coach) is the main attraction to players. We have to spend 95% (?) of our salary cap so we'll be bringing players in (prepare for overs, we're no exception as we're not a top team currently). We aren't going to get a top coach before the roster. It doesn't work that way. There is also no one available for 2021. 2022 will be the year we get a new coach imo. Brown and the Knights were able to recruit well. Is Brown a top coach to you? The answer is no so please stop spreading that we can't attract players because of Pay (we're also in a much better position then the Knights were in 2017). I think it's weird that we haven't been too active in the transfer market yet (only signing Luke Thompson) as I would of thought as soon as November hit we would of started recruiting as there was a larger player pool to pick from but that's on the board/recruitment team.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Don’t disagree mate. My point was more that if a change were to happen it would most likely be internal and more caretaker until a more permanent solution was implemented - not unlike when Dymock took over from Moore pre Hasler. Time will tell.

Yeah could possibly be a cheaper caretaker option if they've already decided to go in a different direction before the season resumes. I doubt that's what the club will do though

 

[DinkumDog]

Yeah could possibly be a cheaper caretaker option if they've already decided to go in a different direction before the season resumes. I doubt that's what the club will do though

It would normally be a results decision rather than a financial one, but with club revenues down with no crowds even if the season resumes that's got to be a factor.
But I agree - if the reason resumes Pay will see it out - he's contracted for the year and he no doubt wants his job and wants his contract extended.
If it doesn't resume (or a lot later than 28 May) and because he's currently stood down without pay, ultimately he's probably going to have to seek employment elsewhere - he's got to look after his family.
So timing could be a factor for his tenure going either way - and I'm sure that's all being discussed at the moment.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Can this great club afford to stay in the doldrums any longer ?
In my opinion...NO
The solution...
The club should do the impossible to convince Bellamy with a mighty offer and a new challenge !
What ever extra we pay him we will save on the massive overs we will have to pay to attract marquee players, If we get any !!!
For the last several years our salary cap money has been wasted year in year out with only excuses for results !!!

You do realise that there is a NRL Salary Cap on Coaching and other non playing staff? We can’t offer Bellamy more money than any other club could.

Go Dogs

 

[Kempsey Dog]

it actually does but mainly because the coach doesnt make a single interchange until 29mins into the game when Taumalolo is dominating our middles... perhaps fatigue was the result here and our middles needed a rest, but coach had to follow his shit pre conceived plan

Haha how's the disagree on this lol . It's pure fact we all saw it happen haha

 

[Gabe]

It is obviouse Pay is not an NRL level head coach.
He is perhaps one of the best defence coaches in the comp, but not a head coach at this level.
We should have folded on Pay round 6-8 last year!

There are not any obviouse options, but doing nothing is negligent.

I think Griffen could perhaps be a good fit to develop our young squad and get us back to finishing 5-8th regularly.

Last year was the first time in over 50 years we failed to make the finals or playoffs 3 years in a row!

We need a better CEO while we are at it.

 

[2ndphase]

What are you talking about? 2021 is when we get millions of our salary cap back. Money or success (which includes the coach) is the main attraction to players. We have to spend 95% (?) of our salary cap so we'll be bringing players in (prepare for overs, we're no exception as we're not a top team currently). We aren't going to get a top coach before the roster. It doesn't work that way. There is also no one available for 2021. 2022 will be the year we get a new coach imo. Brown and the Knights were able to recruit well. Is Brown a top coach to you? The answer is no so please stop spreading that we can't attract players because of Pay (we're also in a much better position then the Knights were in 2017). I think it's weird that we haven't been too active in the transfer market yet (only signing Luke Thompson) as I would of thought as soon as November hit we would of started recruiting as there was a larger player pool to pick from but that's on the board/recruitment team.

I normally skip your posts because you keep on repeating yourself over and over and over again...

But you want to give Pay a shot at our fresh salary cap picking players that he wants to build a team..
Which in my opinion he wont be able to attract quality players because most players move to teams to become a better player and to win premierships or even the finals.

Yes money does come into play as well but they want to learn under a good coach.

Dean Pay has proven over the last 3 years not one player has improved!
You tell me what Pays actually game plan is id really like to know..

So getting back to you wanting Pay to pick his own team. What if he picks his team and fails 2 years later then we bring in a new coach "FINALLY " and he wants his own team and then we start all over again...
So we waste another 3-4 years to give Pay another shot. NO THANKS!!
Im sick of Pays boring defensive game style trying to grind out games.
Its the clubs job to get memberships and to put bums on seats to keep this great club going with exciting footy and to win premierships.
You said yourself that Pay is playing players out of position and you still want to give him another shot!

This is the perfect time to get a new coach to build his own team from scratch.
Now that is the biggest attraction that we have had for years.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

It is obviouse Pay is not an NRL level head coach.
He is perhaps one of the best defence coaches in the comp, but not a head coach at this level.
We should have folded on Pay round 6-8 last year!

There are not any obviouse options, but doing nothing is negligent.

I think Griffen could perhaps be a good fit to develop our young squad and get us back to finishing 5-8th regularly.

Last year was the first time in over 50 years we failed to make the finals or playoffs 3 years in a row!

We need a better CEO while we are at it.

He was the Raiders defensive coach and their defence improved once he left them...so?

 

[D- voice]

You do realise that there is a NRL Salary Cap on Coaching and other non playing staff? We can’t offer Bellamy more money than any other club could.

Go Dogs

Desperate times needs desperate measures...
Other than 2012, since 2010 our attack has been absolutely dismal, no flow no rhythm we take chances pushing passes in every attacking raid, we run around like headless chooks on the 20 meters line.
We are in desperate need to be attractive in attack again !
Unfortunately the rules changes has taken away The Dogs Of War mentality from us !!!

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I normally skip your posts because you keep on repeating yourself over and over and over again...

But you want to give Pay a shot at our fresh salary cap picking players that he wants to build a team..
Which in my opinion he wont be able to attract quality players because most players move to teams to become a better player and to win premierships or even the finals.

Yes money does come into play as well but they want to learn under a good coach.

Dean Pay has proven over the last 3 years not one player has improved!
You tell me what Pays actually game plan is id really like to know..

So getting back to you wanting Pay to pick his own team. What if he picks his team and fails 2 years later then we bring in a new coach "FINALLY " and he wants his own team and then we start all over again...
So we waste another 3-4 years to give Pay another shot. NO THANKS!!
Im sick of Pays boring defensive game style trying to grind out games.
Its the clubs job to get memberships and to put bums on seats to keep this great club going with exciting footy and to win premierships.
You said yourself that Pay is playing players out of position and you still want to give him another shot!

This is the perfect time to get a new coach to build his own team from scratch.
Now that is the biggest attraction that we have had for years.

We're sort of hitting a period similar to 2009 next year where we can bring In a chunk of players that bring experience in key positions or are still relatively young that are yet to hit their peak but are not NRL rookies.

Kimmorley - Friend
Ennis - Mahoney
Morris - Cotric
Hannant - Thompson

I don't want to waste next season with Pay again...

 

[bradyk]

I normally skip your posts because you keep on repeating yourself over and over and over again...

But you want to give Pay a shot at our fresh salary cap picking players that he wants to build a team..
Which in my opinion he wont be able to attract quality players because most players move to teams to become a better player and to win premierships or even the finals.

Yes money does come into play as well but they want to learn under a good coach.

Dean Pay has proven over the last 3 years not one player has improved!
You tell me what Pays actually game plan is id really like to know..

So getting back to you wanting Pay to pick his own team. What if he picks his team and fails 2 years later then we bring in a new coach "FINALLY " and he wants his own team and then we start all over again...
So we waste another 3-4 years to give Pay another shot. NO THANKS!!
Im sick of Pays boring defensive game style trying to grind out games.
Its the clubs job to get memberships and to put bums on seats to keep this great club going with exciting footy and to win premierships.
You said yourself that Pay is playing players out of position and you still want to give him another shot!

This is the perfect time to get a new coach to build his own team from scratch.
Now that is the biggest attraction that we have had for years.

Two things to this. The reason I repeat myself is because of people like you OR I'm replying to a different user.

I don't think Pay is a top coach but I don't think we're going to be able to get a top coach and at best we'd be doing a sideways swap which I fail to understand why when Pay has met the expectations that have been placed on him (and actually done better - if you disagree with this then for whatever reason you've been living under a rock AND you're unable to compare our roster to any of the other teams - there are only two rosters in the NRL we're competitive with). This isn't a perfect time to get a top coach because one isn't available! In 2022 there are potentially two top coaches that are available.

You say Pay can't attract players but Brown was able to at the Knights who were in a much worse position than us. This is why I repeat myself because people like you quote me even tho I've already given you the answer. Pay being the reason we can't attract players ends here. There is literally no argument you can make.

Yes, I don't agree with where all the players are playing. Meaney isn't a top fullback either so to keep DWZ happy I get it, the difference between the two is negligible. The Reimis move to centres smells to me like JAC is coming. The rest of the squad I can't really complain with and it's almost the same squad I'd pick.

 

[bradyk]

We're sort of hitting a period similar to 2009 next year where we can bring In a chunk of players that bring experience in key positions or are still relatively young that are yet to hit their peak but are not NRL rookies.

Kimmorley - Friend
Ennis - Mahoney
Morris - Cotric
Hannant - Thompson

I don't want to waste next season with Pay again...

Thompson
Cotric/JAC
Friend
Milford/Fifita

This is best case scenario. The scenarios after that aren't as pretty to look at (can we expect best case scenario at this point?). This was always my problem with waiting 6 months so far to really get into the transfer market (we've only signed Thompson and there were a few props at the time that we wanted beforehand as fans - e.g. Arrow, Taukeiaho, Flegler).