Consolidated Pay Thread

[Bazildog]

Flanagan for 2022 is the play. Pay for one more year. That's the ruthless decision I think we need to make almost regardless of what Pay does in 2021. If Bellamy starts to show signs of leaving Storm than he should be priority over Flanagan. Unless it's those two names I think Pay gets more time at this stage. Picking up anyone (sideways swap) who isn't the right coach for us especially when Pay has done what's expected of him is just silly. If we fail to meet expectations in 2021 than I have no problem in trying someone else for 2022 who isn't Flanagan or Bellamy (who's still a long shot even being an option).

Nah, I would fight and rally plenty to oppose that fuckin cheating grub Flanagan. Find a better option if Pay doesn’t pull a rabbit out of his arse..

 

[B-Train]

Mate you 100% have the right and plenty of argument to question moving forward with Pay.

But, what is your plan B? The only 2 coaches worth pissing on are locked in for 2021 in Bellamy and and Bennett.

Flanagan is not an option in my opinion so unless you want to look at left field like Eddie Jones from Rugby...

Ricky Stuart will stay in ACT and to be honest I don’t rate him as a coach. Rooster Trent has played with the best Roster and UNLIMITED..budget, Mag is the same and everyone else is a didn’t deliver or past it..

Why can’t our board bring in a JT or a someone similar to concentrate on offence and attract other marque players?

I've acknowledged several times that the options are slim. I also think that's why they should have pursued O'Brien or Holbrook last season. Bennett isn't an option. He's a dinosaur who has done poorly with big teams for a decade plus. I agree that Flanagan shouldn't be allowed near our club and probably has the Saints job locked up anyway. Bellamy isn't an option as he'd retire or go to Brisbane if he ever left Melbourne.

Until a viable long term option arises, giving the job to someone like Henry or Griffin or someone along those lines in a caretaker role or a current assistant/Q Cup or Reserves coach with an attacking game plan would be much better than another year and a half or more of Pay.

Re-signing Pay just allows the rot to set in further and makes it harder and take longer for the next coach to clean up his mess. It also wastes great opportunities of development for several of our brightest prospects as Pay has proven he can't get the best attacking prowess out of his skilled players.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

All the Pay haters can only see negatives in everything, even when it’s a positive. Because they only look for negatives so that it confirms their already held biases.

A simple example, the negatives will only see that what we lost against Parramatta. But considering the events a couple of days before the game losing arguably our best forward and a winger with potential for being stupid idiots, plus a multi $million sponsor reneging, it was a positive that we didn’t lose by 50.

Go Dogs

All the pay supporters only see positives... Can look at it both ways dude. Despite your argument the balance sways towards him being shit as his winning percentage says so.

 

[TwinTurbo]

All the pay supporters only see positives... Can look at it both ways dude. Despite your argument the balance sways towards him being shit as his winning percentage says so.

Using your terminology the balance sways towards the players being shit, which considering our salary constraints should come as a surprise to no one. The coaching staff didn’t commit 17 errors in the Cowboys game, or completed at a miserable 61%, miss 38 tackles, give up 7 penalties and could only manage an abysmal 43% of possession. They weren’t coached to be that bad, the blame lays squarely with the players.

Go Dogs

 

[B-Train]

Using your terminology the balance sways towards the players being shit, which considering our salary constraints should come as a surprise to no one. The coaching staff didn’t commit 17 errors in the Cowboys game, or completed at a miserable 61%, miss 38 tackles, give up 7 penalties and could only manage an abysmal 43% of possession. They weren’t coached to be that bad, the blame lays squarely with the players.

Go Dogs

So the blame lies solely with the players but those same players deserve no credit for the team "overachieving" with our consecutive 12th placed finishes the last two seasons? Was that all Pay's sheer genius that resulted in some late season wins both seasons?

As others have said, with the Pay loyalists, the coach gets all the praise when we win and when we lose it's because the players stink. Well who's the one that is in charge of these players and directly responsible for their continual poor performances?

Let me guess... Anyone other than the head coach?

 

[Bazildog]

I've acknowledged several times that the options are slim. I also think that's why they should have pursued O'Brien or Holbrook last season. Bennett isn't an option. He's a dinosaur who has done poorly with big teams for a decade plus. I agree that Flanagan shouldn't be allowed near our club and probably has the Saints job locked up anyway. Bellamy isn't an option as he'd retire or go to Brisbane if he ever left Melbourne.

Until a viable long term option arises, giving the job to someone like Henry or Griffin or someone along those lines in a caretaker role or a current assistant/Q Cup or Reserves coach with an attacking game plan would be much better than another year and a half or more of Pay.

Re-signing Pay just allows the rot to set in further and makes it harder and take longer for the next coach to clean up his mess. It also wastes great opportunities of development for several of our brightest prospects as Pay has proven he can't get the best attacking prowess out of his skilled players.

Problem is Griff is probably a stop gap and Hollbrook has showed nothing yet and I am not convinced at all. We either go all in for Bellamy or start looking left field like a Rubgy coach.

I will be fucked if we do the whole rebuild shit again....

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Using your terminology the balance sways towards the players being shit, which considering our salary constraints should come as a surprise to no one. The coaching staff didn’t commit 17 errors in the Cowboys game, or completed at a miserable 61%, miss 38 tackles, give up 7 penalties and could only manage an abysmal 43% of possession. They weren’t coached to be that bad, the blame lays squarely with the players.

Go Dogs

it actually does but mainly because the coach doesnt make a single interchange until 29mins into the game when Taumalolo is dominating our middles... perhaps fatigue was the result here and our middles needed a rest, but coach had to follow his shit pre conceived plan

 

[bradyk]

So the blame lies solely with the players but those same players deserve no credit for the team "overachieving" with our consecutive 12th placed finishes the last two seasons? Was that all Pay's sheer genius that resulted in some late season wins both seasons?

As others have said, with the Pay loyalists, the coach gets all the praise when we win and when we lose it's because the players stink. Well who's the one that is in charge of these players and directly responsible for their continual poor performances?

Let me guess... Anyone other than the head coach?

It's both, but you have to understand why Pay hasn't really had the best chance to do anything when looking at our roster (and salary cap position). Even with that he's met the expectations that were put on us. Where we were predicted to finish before a ball was kicked. Technically we've overperformed and that's credit to both the coach and the players (yes, I know it isn't great to finish 12th but we were expected to do much worse, we picked up multiple wins against teams that were favourites against us). We're still not good enough to be where we want to be (and that's most likely Pay too/our coach - when the right one comes up we're most likely going to be ruthless). When we get our "reinforcements" for the 2021 season expectations will be higher. To finish ~8th assuming we recruit how I think the majority of us think we will.

If we had Thompson, Cotric/JAC, Friend and Milford/Fifita in 2019 do you think we make the finals? Each one of those players win you at least one extra game a season (and it automatically improves the rest of the squad too). I personally think we do.

 

[B-Train]

Problem is Griff is probably a stop gap and Hollbrook has showed nothing yet and I am not convinced at all. We either go all in for Bellamy or start looking left field like a Rubgy coach.

I will be fucked if we do the whole rebuild shit again....

That's what I'm suggesting.. A stop gap until a better option comes along. I don't want these coaches either but they're far more competent than Pay. At least someone like Griffin or Henry can have his teams functioning like a FG outfit unlike our continual rabble.

Bellamy is zero chance. He'll either retire or coach Brisbane if he ever leaves Melbourne. Holbrook hasn't had a chance yet to prove if he is or isn't up to the job as he inherited a horrible squad and it's two games in.

Left field suggestions would be Todd Payten, Noddy or Cronk or a young, progressive ex player along those lines who has a coaching background.

 

[Bazildog]

That's what I'm suggesting.. A stop gap until a better option comes along. I don't want these coaches either but they're far more competent than Pay. At least someone like Griffin or Henry can have his teams functioning like a FG outfit unlike our continual rabble.

Bellamy is zero chance. He'll either retire or coach Brisbane if he ever leaves Melbourne. Holbrook hasn't had a chance yet to prove if he is or isn't up to the job as he inherited a horrible squad and it's two games in.

Left field suggestions would be Todd Payten, Noddy or Cronk or a young, progressive ex player along those lines who has a coaching background.

Nah, all of those are full rebuilds and learning experiments..We either bring in a GUN we throw the fucking house at or we go for a left field option of looking at our football dept like the NFL with offence and defence coaches and bring in a football attacking gun/brain for offence.

 

[2144superman]

I don't remember much of his coaching BUT was Jason Taylor a bad coach? I would have thought he could do a lot with the attack being an ex half-back and also having spent so much time in the Roosters assisting coaching ranks he would have should have learnt a lot from Robinson and co

Another that comes to mind is;

Adrian Lam who seems to be doing a fair job with Wigan I believe.

 

[Bazildog]

I don't remember much of his coaching BUT was Jason Taylor a bad coach? I would have thought he could do a lot with the attack being an ex half-back and also having spent so much time in the Roosters assisting coaching ranks he would have should have learnt a lot from Robinson and co

Another that comes to mind is;

Adrian Lam who seems to be doing a fair job with Wigan I believe.

Taylor was too much one of the boys and not the coach, Lam, I dont know to be honest but I aslo dont here his name thrown around much by anyone..

 

[2144superman]

Taylor was too much one of the boys and not the coach, Lam, I dont know to be honest but I aslo dont here his name thrown around much by anyone..

Fair call, thanks for the reply. I didn't remember much of Taylor except that he was being hailed as a success at Parra during his time there. Fittler had the same problem at the Roosters as did Nathan Brown at the Dragons when both were coaches.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

I don't remember much of his coaching BUT was Jason Taylor a bad coach? I would have thought he could do a lot with the attack being an ex half-back and also having spent so much time in the Roosters assisting coaching ranks he would have should have learnt a lot from Robinson and co

Another that comes to mind is;

Adrian Lam who seems to be doing a fair job with Wigan I believe.

I mentioned Lam in a previous post. Said we should sign Sailor and his mate Lachlan Lam, both off contract and would come cheap and are from good stock. Would give us an easy shot at Adrian to come back and be involved with his boy in some capacity

 

[2144superman]

I mentioned Lam in a previous post. Said we should sign Sailor and his mate Lachlan Lam, both off contract and would come cheap and are from good stock. Would give us an easy shot at Adrian to come back and be involved with his boy in some capacity

Adrian seems to be doing well with Wigan and if you look at there style of play they play an open attacking brand of football.

 

[B-Train]

Nah, all of those are full rebuilds and learning experiments..We either bring in a GUN we throw the fucking house at or we go for a left field option of looking at our football dept like the NFL with offence and defence coaches and bring in a football attacking gun/brain for offence.

But there isn't a gun available and there probably won't be for several years. We can't stick with Pay until then unless we want two more years of bottom five finishes.

Not all rookie or unknown coaches are useless or would require another three years of rebuilding if appointed. Some in recent years have proven they can make an impact right away.

 

[B-Train]

Adrian seems to be doing well with Wigan and if you look at there style of play they play an open attacking brand of football.

He's been touted as an option for clubs for years. He'd be an interesting option. Even if he did have a sex tape back in the day probably when it was on actual tape! Haha..

A coach from the Super League would bring the added advantage of recruiting ESL players.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Adrian seems to be doing well with Wigan and if you look at there style of play they play an open attacking brand of football.

Yeah man he's got a decent eye for talent and a quality style of play. Wigan were struggling at the beginning of his tenure but he quickly sorted them out to make the prelim. Dunno if I'd take him as a head coach right away, but an assistant I think he'd be excellent... But if I had to pick him or Pay, Lam would get the nod

 

[2144superman]

Does Steve Georgallis deserve his shot?

 

[DoggyStyla]

Using your terminology the balance sways towards the players being shit, which considering our salary constraints should come as a surprise to no one. The coaching staff didn’t commit 17 errors in the Cowboys game, or completed at a miserable 61%, miss 38 tackles, give up 7 penalties and could only manage an abysmal 43% of possession. They weren’t coached to be that bad, the blame lays squarely with the players.

Go Dogs

Mate I hear what you are saying, but at the end of the day the buck stops with the coach.

The game plan was also shit, it’s very defense oriented and out d was not up to the attack from the lowly Cowboys.