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News Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs to host Canberra Raiders in 2020 NRL pre-season trial in Port Macquari

Discussion in 'Bulldogs Discussion' started by Spoonman84, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. speedy2460

    speedy2460 Kennel Enthusiast

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    Confusion about attack and defence. Some say attack is the best form of defence. Thats OK in a military sense but not necessarily in RL.
    The reality is that the club needs to get the defence right, and build the attack on the back of it. If the defence is right, the attack will happen.
     
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  2. GDR

    GDR Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded x2 Premium Member

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    no it also applies in Rugby league and most sports around the world .. if you spend all the time in the opponents red zone then:
    a) you tire them out
    b) its extremely hard to score a try from 90 metres out.

    Defence is attitude , if defence is bad there is something rotten in the club, generally speaking.

    However attack is not based on effort, it is based on skill, knowledge, cohesion, speed, strength and confidence.. The coach cant really do much about skill, speed and strength if the attitude is right, but he has a hell of a say in Knowledge, Cohesion and Confidence.
    it doesn't get much simpler than that
     
  3. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    This Tolman 4th tackle shyte is wearing a bit thin, "get in the way" FFS what's he supposed to do when someone passes the ball to him, not catch it, knock it on, let it sale on past? The problem is not with the receiver it's the passer that shouldn't be passing it to him on the 4th (or 5th). We need to stop dumping the blame on Tolman, he's not the only forward that someone inappropriately passes the ball to late in the tackle count. The fault lies with whoever it is that is passing the ball in that direction and it's far from the halves only that are guilty of it.

    Go Dogs
     
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  4. Slovenia Steve

    Slovenia Steve Kennel Enthusiast

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    Have to agree with this. The question is why he's being given the ball on the 4th tackle in those positions. Doubt he's the one who's calling the shots etc. so seems only logical that the playmaker is questioned rather than the forward who ends up with it surely?
     
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  5. Slovenia Steve

    Slovenia Steve Kennel Enthusiast

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    Hmm makes sense. Would argue that perhaps it's not true in all sports, but can definitely agree with league.

    Aren't you saying then that defence can't be coached? You can coach them to have the right attitude, but tactically it's not as big an issue? Or are you connecting the two?
     
  6. GDR

    GDR Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded x2 Premium Member

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    I feel by this comment that youve never played rugby league or any team sport for that matter..

    Every team has a hog, that pushes people out of the way to get the ball or stands in the way and it leaves others no other choice than to pass the ball to him.

    growing up in every team sport I played, there was always one of these blokes...
     
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  7. GDR

    GDR Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded x2 Premium Member

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    not saying defence cannot be coached, but it is extremely basic coaching, with at least 80% of defence coming from attitude... (wrestle coaching excluded)
     
  8. Chris Harding

    Chris Harding Steam Powered Dog Premium Member

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    True; but we did leak points early last season. It really buggered our for and against later in the year.
     
  9. btrainben

    btrainben Kennel Immortal

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    He's supposed to not get in the way. He shouldn't be there in the first place. Either run a hard decoy through the line like he should or stay out the back out of the picture like most other middle forwards would in that situation if they weren't running a hard decoy line.

    Like Rota said, hogs like Gallen and Tolman can't help but get in the way because they want the ball as much as possible.

    No one can fault Tolman's effort or his brilliant defense. But if anyone thinks that Tolman isn't accountable for getting in the way in attack is watching a different game to me. It's more than a coincidence that he's done this under Bellamy, Hasler and Pay.

    But to your point, if we had smarter and more experienced halves and a hooker the last several seasons, they would have told Tolman to get the fuck out of the way or just not give it to him in those situations.
     
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  10. KiwiDog7

    KiwiDog7 Kennel Immortal

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    Suggest you go watch a few games more closely and you will see many examples of him pushing through and taking the pill on 4

    The one that really pisses me off is when we make a rare break upfield and from the next play the ball we looking for a quick wide shift then low and behold Tolman comes from no where for a hit up

    Some might say a stat paddler

    GO DOGS!
     
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  11. wendog33

    wendog33 Kennel Addict

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    The coach has the responsibility of ensuring hogs don't disrupt his gameplan.

    Tolman on the 4th, Tolman attempting bargeover tries, Tolman tackling piggyback style for 10 post contact metres is so ingrained in Bulldogs playing style these days, that Pay MUST be including it in his gameplan. Otherwise he is a very poor coach not to see the over use of Tolman in sets.

    Love Tolman's efforts. 100% for his club and team mates but there are several instances, every game, where play breaks down due to his dominance in the set.

    On the other hand he is the first to get there to support a break.

    Can't bag the bloke as he has been a real first class clubman but too small and becoming ineffective now for long minutes in the frontrow.
     
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  12. GDR

    GDR Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded x2 Premium Member

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    Peter Tunks constantly refers to him as a hog and stats paddler (not those exact words).
     
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  13. GDR

    GDR Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded x2 Premium Member

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    yeah I have to agree, the coach should have done more to stop this, but I get a feel from his press conferences, he encourages the behaviour ..
     
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  14. speedy2460

    speedy2460 Kennel Enthusiast

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    Hard to argue with the posters on the Tolman matter. Its true the halves need to be more selective in who they pass to.
    But its hard when the other players dont get themselves into a position to take a pass.
    Tolman is always pushing forward, (like he has done for years) and a few of the others need to take a lesson on his enthusiasm.
     
  15. Slovenia Steve

    Slovenia Steve Kennel Enthusiast

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    Well, having never played league before nor really gone into all the technical side of things I really can't comment on the finer points of the game if I'm honest. Makes sense what you're saying though and will leave it to more knowledgeable posters to agree / disagree :grinning:)
     
  16. Slovenia Steve

    Slovenia Steve Kennel Enthusiast

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    Fair points. Again though wouldn't you say it's up the halves to be organising the team so that they're in the correct positions? And the coach to ensure the players are trained to do that? Maybe it's just that all of them are crap ... or were for long periods over the last few years.

    hopefully with Shifty in things are a little more structured on that point?
     
  17. Slovenia Steve

    Slovenia Steve Kennel Enthusiast

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    That fact he continued to play Tolman would probably give you point some merit.
     
  18. GDR

    GDR Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded x2 Premium Member

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    I'm far from an expert, but I am a student of the game and have been for approx. 30 years... and I may in fact be wrong on this, but from the outside looking in, I don't think I am.

    There are very limited choices in the defensive structures teams can adopt, with the main variables being wrestle, fitness and effort, impacting the efficiency of a teams defence.

    Without question Wrestle and the referees interpretation of a teams wrestle, has become increasingly more important over the past 15 years..
     
  19. KiwiDog7

    KiwiDog7 Kennel Immortal

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    On that point with the wrestle

    We sucked last year in that department
     
  20. Wahesh

    Wahesh The Forefather of The Kennel

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    Isn't wrestling being phased out of the game slowly with all these ridiculous rule changes that are introduced every year?
     

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