Burtons best position?

Is Matt Burton a better centre or 5/8?

  • Centre

    Votes: 26 27.7%
  • 5/8

    Votes: 69 73.4%

  • Total voters
    94
  • Poll closed .

flamebouyant

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You’re probably right but the reality is he’s had two seasons there and been ineffective.

Some fans say he’s got potential and make excuses like no forward pack/halves partner etc but at some stage you gotta stop making excuses for him.

For me two seasons is enough and I’m sick of watching us get flogged.

Kiraz and Preston didn’t play average footy for two seasons and get picked every week on potential.

This situation could easily turn into something like Luke Brooks where we say “this year wasn’t his year but next year etc etc”

Burtons running and kicking game is a 4 out of 5 but his play making is 1/5 and hasn’t shown any improvement.
But hey maybe next year will be his year!
Everyone has their opinion, and at the end of the day, he had a poor year. But there are many factors as to why, and they have all been gone over a million times. I personally think the whole team deserves criticism. Preston was probably our only decent player.
 

CQDog

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In 2024 I'd like to see Burton;
Have more Line Break Assists than Deardon
Have more Try Assists than Munster
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Cleary
Have more Line Break Assists than Grant
Have more Try Assists than Luai
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Manu
Have more Line Break Assists than Tedesco
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Tino
Have more Line Break Assists than Wighton
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Manu
Have more Line Break Assists than Townsend

Oh wait, he already achieved all of the above in 2023.


Always a Bulldog
Using Chad Townsend to bump up your arguments in the big 2023 :sob: :sob:
 

stevesonthebay

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Burtons played 5/8 and did pretty good behind a pretty weak team. Even then we seen glimpses of what he can do with bombs, cut out passes and linking up. IMagine what he could do with a stronger side. Lets give him a chance at the position he thinks is best for him fist before he's has a chance to show his potential.

Besides its not like he has to be there 100% of the game as we have so many options. A Hutchinson or Tracy in the centre can easily swap for set plays or Burton can pop up anywhere and inject himself in open play.
 

dogwhisperer

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You’re probably right but the reality is he’s had two seasons there and been ineffective.

Some fans say he’s got potential and make excuses like no forward pack/halves partner etc but at some stage you gotta stop making excuses for him.

For me two seasons is enough and I’m sick of watching us get flogged.

Kiraz and Preston didn’t play average footy for two seasons and get picked every week on potential.

This situation could easily turn into something like Luke Brooks where we say “this year wasn’t his year but next year etc etc”

Burtons running and kicking game is a 4 out of 5 but his play making is 1/5 and hasn’t shown any improvement.
But hey maybe next year will be his year!
For someone who has 16 try assists and 82 average meters per game in 2023 in a shit side, I think it’s safe to say in a more dominant team with a forward pack that can bend the line and defend his stats would increase by 15-20% at least.
 

CrittaMagic69

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For someone who has 16 try assists and 82 average meters per game in 2023 in a shit side, I think it’s safe to say in a more dominant team with a forward pack that can bend the line and defend his stats would increase by 15-20% at least.
Wouldn't bet my life on that. Burton got pretty much all our good ball last season so his numbers in a shit side are already inflated. Numbers aren't the issue with Burton though, it's the eye test. The bloke could play like crap all game but step off his left foot twice in the final 10 and split the line open both times. What he does before and after these moments is the issue.
 

dogwhisperer

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Wouldn't bet my life on that. Burton got pretty much all our good ball last season so his numbers in a shit side are already inflated. Numbers aren't the issue with Burton though, it's the eye test. The bloke could play like crap all game but step off his left foot twice in the final 10 and split the line open both times. What he does before and after these moments is the issue.
I’m only 98% sure so I wouldn’t bet my life on it either. I’ll have to be 100% sure to bet my life on it.
 
Last edited:

axeman23

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In 2024 I'd like to see Burton;
Have more Line Break Assists than Deardon
Have more Try Assists than Munster
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Cleary
Have more Line Break Assists than Grant
Have more Try Assists than Luai
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Manu
Have more Line Break Assists than Tedesco
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Tino
Have more Line Break Assists than Wighton
Have the same number of Line Breaks as Manu
Have more Line Break Assists than Townsend

Oh wait, he already achieved all of the above in 2023.


Always a Bulldog

Soooo, in short: You'd like him to be an Immortal. ME TOO!!! :tearsofjoy:
 

Kempsey Dog

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IMO, after 4 page this is the most sensible comment of the lot …

If your props & forwards aren’t dominating, your half’s can’t perform at their best .. it’s been a problem for us since Klemmer, Graham and Co. left …

I can’t see it being any better coming into the new season unless Gus can pull a rabbit out of his hat .,

Burton has been our best player in a pretty average team, with next to no go forward .. so guess who opposition teams marked the most ..

Burton won’t be a great 5/8 until he has a dominate pack eating up metres for him ..
Anasta was fucking elite and had great vision, I never thought he deserved most overrated tag. It's a stretch to say Burton would do better than he did at that time.
 

BULLDOGGSFAN

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For someone who has 16 try assists and 82 average meters per game in 2023 in a shit side, I think it’s safe to say in a more dominant team with a forward pack that can bend the line and defend his stats would increase by 15-20% at least.
Well he wasn’t in the top 50 players for try assists last season and he was seeing a lot of ball. We know he has a great running game and can put up a bomb but his playmaking is average and he was top 20 for missed tackles.

The thing is he’s probably going to be playing behind a beaten forward pack (most weeks) next year too so I don’t see how his numbers/percentages are gonna change much.

I think we’re all hoping he kills it at 5/8 but after two seasons there we should know what to expect.
 

Marki

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Wouldn't bet my life on that. Burton got pretty much all our good ball last season so his numbers in a shit side are already inflated. Numbers aren't the issue with Burton though, it's the eye test. The bloke could play like crap all game but step off his left foot twice in the final 10 and split the line open both times. What he does before and after these moments is the issue.
Good summation.
He might be one of our better players but he is also the one who looks like is playing at 50% of his ability. That's what frustrating.

Kikau is completely nullified with Burton on his inside. Kikau needs a good playmaker and running 5/8th inside him otherwise he becomes an even bigger waste of money than Burton. Last season proved this.

IMO, Hutch would bring out a better Kikau for us and if that means Burton to centre outside Kikau, then that's what CC needs to do.

Everyone's ego should go in check. It's time the club and it's advancement came first.

A number of this first grade squad will not be part be part of our next premiership so stop thinking they have a mortgage on positions.

They are stepping stones.
 

Alan79

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At the end of the day I've witnessed the quality he can deliver on the odd game our team has performed around him and demanded they pay less attention to him. I wasn't that excited about signing him until I saw his halves debut at Penrith replacing Cleary. He managed to convince me he'd be a player worth building a team around.

The decision comes down to the coaching staff in the end. His skills are obvious but he needs to be closer to his best match frequently as we progress. He does have quiet games. But so does every player. There's so much expected of him because of the hype. And that hype coupled with his displayed running ability means he's heavily marked in defence. If we have loads of other threats round him that'll hopefully give him more breathing room and chances to be creative.
 

B-Train

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I don't buy into this narrative that Burton made Kikau play like shit. Burton was ordinary last year but so was Kikau with poor errors, missed tackles, fitness etc. Injury played a huge part in that with Kikau as did personal tragedy. So he has legitimate reasons for a down year..

But we've seen plenty of other good 2nd rowers play with shit halves and still dominate. Kikau will bounce back and hopefully so will Burton, but to put Kikau's form all on Burton and ignoring all of the above is ridiculous..
 

CrittaMagic69

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I don't buy into this narrative that Burton made Kikau play like shit. Burton was ordinary last year but so was Kikau with poor errors, missed tackles, fitness etc. Injury played a huge part in that with Kikau as did personal tragedy. So he has legitimate reasons for a down year..

But we've seen plenty of other good 2nd rowers play with shit halves and still dominate. Kikau will bounce back and hopefully so will Burton, but to put Kikau's form all on Burton and ignoring all of the above is ridiculous..
Burton has displayed zero ball playing nous, Kikau is going to be Trex 2.0 outside him
 

BULLDOGGSFAN

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Burton has displayed zero ball playing nous, Kikau is going to be Trex 2.0 outside him
The stats on NRL.com back that up. He’s not even in the top 50 for try assists and given he was our dominant playmaker all season that’s even worse.
NSW showed how to use him this year. Playing at centre and have a run first mentality. He can still put up a bomb if the opportunity arises.
After all his strength is his running and kicking game. Not play making…
 

Psycho Doggie

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Well he wasn’t in the top 50 players for try assists last season and he was seeing a lot of ball.
He wasn't?

Zero Tackle stats has him at 16th: https://www.zerotackle.com/nrl/player-stats/2023-nrl-top-try-assists/

NRL.com stats has him at 17th: https://www.nrl.com/stats/players/?competition=111&season=2023&stat=35

Foxsports stats has him at 14th: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...&wpa=BB44D82C3D7223D393F2AE47579FB5EA6791ABE4

I thought for a moment you might have been looking at average per game, instead of cumulative, but Foxsports (the only stat provider I can find who gives a report on averages) still has him at 22nd when viewed in this way.
 

Marki

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I don't buy into this narrative that Burton made Kikau play like shit. Burton was ordinary last year but so was Kikau with poor errors, missed tackles, fitness etc. Injury played a huge part in that with Kikau as did personal tragedy. So he has legitimate reasons for a down year..

But we've seen plenty of other good 2nd rowers play with shit halves and still dominate. Kikau will bounce back and hopefully so will Burton, but to put Kikau's form all on Burton and ignoring all of the above is ridiculous..
Yes they were both poor, but before and after the pec injury to Kikau, you could see how clunky their combo was.

At first I put it down to the way the whole team was playing but quickly realised it was Burton at 5/8th instead of centre that was the root cause.

Burton cant pass for shit. It was the Penrith 5/8th or halfback that was picking and choosing when Kikau hit the ball with speed or when he was used as an effective decoy freeing up Burton at centre and a standard draw and pass to the winger.

Burton tried numerous times to drift across and find Kikau but he either passed too late, or cramped Kikau, the centre and Fox into the corner and play broke down.

I recommend everyone watch the first 6 or so rounds as well as the last few where Kikaus runs were ineffective due to poor decision making on the inside.

I honestly think Hutch is a far better and mature 5/8th than Burton and would work better with Kikau.
 

Marki

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The stats on NRL.com back that up. He’s not even in the top 50 for try assists and given he was our dominant playmaker all season that’s even worse.
NSW showed how to use him this year. Playing at centre and have a run first mentality. He can still put up a bomb if the opportunity arises.
After all his strength is his running and kicking game. Not play making…
100% this.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Burton has displayed zero ball playing nous, Kikau is going to be Trex 2.0 outside him
Zero? Seems a bit extreme. All the stats sites have him in the top 20 for try assists.

He is 28th on NRL.com for line engaged runs, Reed is our only other player in 45th. Not bad in a team that struggled to get into attacking areas on the field. He is our top ranked player for linebreak assists, 27th, only Jakey was also in the top 50, 32nd. NRL.com has another stat called linebreak involvement. Burton is our top ranked player on that, at 17th, though our only other player on the list is Sexton at 46th with only 8 games.

Unsurprisingly he ranks very highly with his kicking game, ranked 9th for attacking kicks, 11th for kicking metres, 10th for total number of kicks. We are perhaps over reliant on him in this area, but it is hard not to be with a boot like his. I can't find any stats that break down try assists based on whether they were from a pass or off the boot, but I recall him kicking for tries quite a few times. One other stat of interest for a different reason, he did the most short drop outs, that is more a comment on our poor defense last season, but I don't recall him getting too many of them wrong, unlike someone like Latrell Mitchell, who seemed to miss quite a few of them. Even if we want to dismiss his passing game (which is at the least mildly unfair), he is clearly valuable for his kicking game. The only stat I could find that he isn't in the top 50 for is set restarts (Reed and Toby are), and perhaps he can work on that, though I'd put that down more to his attacking mindset, when he has the ball in the red zone he is looking for tries.

So I disagree that he has zero ball playing nous. Is he Cooper Cronk? No. And we should never ask him to be, but just because he isn't Cooper Cronk doesn't mean he is entirely without any ball playing nous.
 

GoTheDoggies

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The stats on NRL.com back that up. He’s not even in the top 50 for try assists and given he was our dominant playmaker all season that’s even worse.
NSW showed how to use him this year. Playing at centre and have a run first mentality. He can still put up a bomb if the opportunity arises.
After all his strength is his running and kicking game. Not play making…
Fittler is a space cadet the fact you are using him to show “how to use Burton” is comedy gold. Thanks for the laugh.
 

BULLDOGGSFAN

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Fittler is a space cadet the fact you are using him to show “how to use Burton” is comedy gold. Thanks for the laugh.
You think you know more about rugby league than Brad Fittler?
Well aren’t we all lucky to have you as part of this forum!
 
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