Black Lives Matter Leader calls for Christian churches to be attacked

[The DoggFather]

Didn't the Taliban do the same sort of bullshit.

Yep, first thing the goat fuckers did was attack our Churches.

 

[KambahOne]

I'm not sure of your point, but yes of course it's entirely wrong and grossly criminal for anyone to abuse a child including a catholic priest.

You said no one should attack a place of worship, I asked would that include a victim?

 

[KambahOne]

Corruption is not specific to any society, it's specific to humans in general. I agree we should work to weed out corruption, abuses of power at all levels and within all institutions.

I disagree. Corruption and abuse of power is systematically entrenched in western ideals and culture and it goes all the way to the very top. Let me give you an example.

The position of leader of the western world, not the person but the position, has the authority to pardon someone rightfully convicted under the western rule of law and justice system you so revere. The most powerful position in the western world can pardon a criminal at their whim, that is an entrenched abuse of power.

Look at every level of government all the way down to local councils and you will find entrenched abuses of power in their policies, procedures and practices. Why do you think State Governments are closing local councils? The corruption is so entrenched the only way to get rid of it is to get rid of the council.

Look at every corporation, company, business even charities and you will find policies and practices that are abuses of power. Underpaying workers is an abuse of power and that practice is endemic within business. Business lobby groups such as the Minerals Council of Australia and the Business Council of Australia are abuses of power imo. I can't pay professionals to lobby pollies all day about my issues, business can and do and usually get what they want.

The fall out from the 2008 GFC was the greatest abuse of power I have ever seen. Greedy corporations and businesses were engaged in criminal actions and conned the market for profit. The workers of the world paid for all that greed with their taxes funding public bailouts as well as the workers loosing their superannuation, meanwhile the leaders of those corporations and businesses used the public bailout money for their bonuses.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You see western civilisation as this beacon of hope for the rest of the world, problem is the rest of the world can see our western ideals for what they are, a perfect way to fark over other people for profit. China, Russia, they are more western today then they have ever been and they abuse power and are more corrupt today then they have ever been. Coincidence? No. They are learning and putting into practice our western ideals and the world is getting worse as a result.

 

[JayBee]

I disagree. Corruption and abuse of power is systematically entrenched in western ideals and culture and it goes all the way to the very top. Let me give you an example.

The position of leader of the western world, not the person but the position, has the authority to pardon someone rightfully convicted under the western rule of law and justice system you so revere. The most powerful position in the western world can pardon a criminal at their whim, that is an entrenched abuse of power.

Look at every level of government all the way down to local councils and you will find entrenched abuses of power in their policies, procedures and practices. Why do you think State Governments are closing local councils? The corruption is so entrenched the only way to get rid of it is to get rid of the council.

Look at every corporation, company, business even charities and you will find policies and practices that are abuses of power. Underpaying workers is an abuse of power and that practice is endemic within business. Business lobby groups such as the Minerals Council of Australia and the Business Council of Australia are abuses of power imo. I can't pay professionals to lobby pollies all day about my issues, business can and do and usually get what they want.

The fall out from the 2008 GFC was the greatest abuse of power I have ever seen. Greedy corporations and businesses were engaged in criminal actions and conned the market for profit. The workers of the world paid for all that greed with their taxes funding public bailouts as well as the workers loosing their superannuation, meanwhile the leaders of those corporations and businesses used the public bailout money for their bonuses.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You see western civilisation as this beacon of hope for the rest of the world, problem is the rest of the world can see our western ideals for what they are, a perfect way to fark over other people for profit. China, Russia, they are more western today then they have ever been and they abuse power and are more corrupt today then they have ever been. Coincidence? No. They are learning and putting into practice our western ideals and the world is getting worse as a result.

Really?

You ever heard of Lebanon?

 

[KambahOne]

I can't and won't see Christianity as the West. Sure their have been and still are unGodly men trying to push that but I refuse to acknowledge them.

Religion is faiths worst enemy.

What a brilliant quote. FYI - I'll be plagiarising that.

 

[KambahOne]

Really?

You ever heard of Lebanon?

Yep.

 

[ouwet]

@ouwet can you confirm this is your view too?

Bloody oaths... I am not a dirty Arab (Racist? mehhh hundreds of years of oppression allows me too be).

 

[The DoggFather]

What a brilliant quote. FYI - I'll be plagiarising that.

Be my guest my bro.

PS I have to add I'm happy when I find people who know the difference between Faith and religion.

 

[Dawgfather]

The fact that corruption exists within democracies is not an argument for democracies being a bad idea. If you think democracies are a bad idea, the question is 'bad in comparison to WHAT'? what system of government are you suggesting is within ready reach that would do a better job?

I disagree. Corruption and abuse of power is systematically entrenched in western ideals and culture and it goes all the way to the very top. Let me give you an example.

Are you suggesting that corruption and abuse of power is limited to the western world? Surely I don't need to tell you how crazy this argument would be. I'm not defending corruption or abuses of power, both are abhorent but both have existed since the dawn of time. Do you really think that holding up 'black lives matter' signs and putting black squares on your instagram feed is going to suddenly stop corruption and abuses of power after a few thousand years?

The position of leader of the western world, not the person but the position, has the authority to pardon someone rightfully convicted under the western rule of law and justice system you so revere. The most powerful position in the western world can pardon a criminal at their whim, that is an entrenched abuse of power

I personally find this part of the American system odd, and I don't understand the reasoning for it well enough to have a debate about it. Then again many aspects of the american system are strange to me (e.g. the election of district prosecutors and judges) rather than our system where judges are appointment by government.

FYI I'm not someone who blindly defends my side of politics (conservative) my religion (catholic) or my preferred political system (e.g. american democracy).

For example conservatives in America have done an awful job of presenting an alternative to the BLM protests to the point where BLM have run over the top of the police and politicians and corporates to the point where people are so fearful that they will literally do anything to avoid being targeted by BLM.

Another example, some catholic priests abused their power and committed unspeakable crimes against young children for many years. This is disgusting and has created an enormous amount of distrust in the catholic church.

In terms of democracy, you can take your pick for examples of people abusing their power within democracies all over the world. Thankfully there are generally checks on power and systems in place and generally these people are eventually brought to account.

Look at every level of government all the way down to local councils and you will find entrenched abuses of power in their policies, procedures and practices. Why do you think State Governments are closing local councils? The corruption is so entrenched the only way to get rid of it is to get rid of the council.

Part of the reason state governments wanted to close local councils was financial, part of it was ideological (conservatives do not like big government) and part of it was for efficiency (why have so many councils for such little areas).

Again, the fact that corruption and abuses of power occur, does not mean we should suddenly get rid of democracy. Mainly because there is no alternative that would do a better job, but also because destroying the system would create worse outcomes for all involved from a public safety, financial and quality of life perspective.

The fall out from the 2008 GFC was the greatest abuse of power I have ever seen. Greedy corporations and businesses were engaged in criminal actions and conned the market for profit. The workers of the world paid for all that greed with their taxes funding public bailouts as well as the workers loosing their superannuation, meanwhile the leaders of those corporations and businesses used the public bailout money for their bonuses.

I never looked into why the GFC happened, but your description seems to be pretty fair based on everything i've heard and read. I generally agree with you, businesses and corporations are prone to abusing their power for the sake of profit if you let them. There needs to be a level of monitoring and checks on them to ensure it doesn't happen again.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You see western civilisation as this beacon of hope for the rest of the world, problem is the rest of the world can see our western ideals for what they are, a perfect way to fark over other people for profit. China, Russia, they are more western today then they have ever been and they abuse power and are more corrupt today then they have ever been. Coincidence? No. They are learning and putting into practice our western ideals and the world is getting worse as a result.

If you just asked me, I'd be happy to tell you exactly what I think about western civilisation. I think the concept of western civilisation and the ideals that it strives for are definitely a beacon of hope. However, like all humans in the world and all institutions in the world it is flawed to the extent that human beings are involved as all humans are inherently flawed. It is why we need to always ensure that businesses and government are accountable to 'the people', that penalties for people who abuse their power are a deterrent and that there are regulatory bodies in place who can monitor and discover abuses of power before they get out of control.

 

[Flanagun]

I think you'll find a high percentage of black people are Christian and studies have been produced suggesting they are more likely to be Christian than other Americans, so I doubt they will be attempting to destroy the ideals of the church.

The question as to why Jesus is depicted as white in westernised churches is a valid one and does seem to be a case of whitewashing history (and theology)..... but of course it should be debated, I don't support the idea of anyone vandalising or attacking any place of worship.

As for Shaun King, I don't think it's accurate to describe him as a leader of the BLM movement and I do think he was speaking metaphorically.

 

[Dawgfather]

I think you'll find a high percentage of black people are Christian and studies have been produced suggesting they are more likely to be Christian than other Americans, so I doubt they will be attempting to destroy the ideals of the church.

The question as to why Jesus is depicted as white in westernised churches is a valid one and does seem to be a case of whitewashing history (and theology)..... but of course it should be debated, I don't support the idea of anyone vandalising or attacking any place of worship.

As for Shaun King, I don't think it's accurate to describe him as a leader of the BLM movement and I do think he was speaking metaphorically.

In relation to your point on Shaun King, I don't know how anyone could conclude that comments like this are metaphorical given protestors have shown for the past few weeks they are willing to:

Drive cars at police cars
deface historic churches
take over entire city blocks
Kill police officers
Topple statues

 

[Flanagun]

In relation to your point on Shaun King, I don't know how anyone could conclude that comments like this are metaphorical given protestors have shown for the past few weeks they are willing to:

Drive cars at police cars
deface historic churches
take over entire city blocks
Kill police officers
Topple statues

1. Most protestors have been protesting peacefully. The rioting and looting and vandalism of public or private property is not the norm.

2. He said these depictions should come down, not be torn down. I'm no fan of Shaun King....and I can't speak with 100 per cent certainty about his motivations, but nor can you. I haven't seen reports of widespread attempts to deface churches and tear down monuments, so I think it's a bit of a long bow to accuse him of trying to provoke.

3. King is no leader of any movement, but you know who is? The President of the United States. In recent weeks Trump has called COVID Kung Flu (fanning flames of anti Chinese racism which targets individuals and not governments), has called himself a President of law and order and then used tear gas, rubber bullets and flash bangs to disperse crowds of peaceful protesters so he could awkwardly clutch a bible at a nearby church for a photo op, has threatened to use military force to stop protesters, has shared claims protesters are terrorists on social media, has openly implied testing for COVID-19 should be reduced to reduce numbers of recorded cases and has brazenly encouraged people to ignore social distancing guidelines whilst his country is in the grip of a pandemic. He even encouraged protesters to openly challenge state authority by breaching social distancing laws to participate in anti lockdown protests. How can he be serious about expecting BLM protesters to abide by his own curfew laws when he doesn't respect state authority? If we are going to talk about influential people using words to encourage irresponsible, damaging and reckless attitudes and actions, I think the conversation should start with Trump, not with a guy like Shaun King - who is not a leader of the movement in any case. Trump is a much bigger threat to the ideals of western democracy.

 

[Dawgfather]

1. Most protestors have been protesting peacefully. The rioting and looting and vandalism of public or private property is not the norm.

2. He said these depictions should come down, not be torn down. I'm no fan of Shaun King....and I can't speak with 100 per cent certainty about his motivations, but nor can you. I haven't seen reports of widespread attempts to deface churches and tear down monuments, so I think it's a bit of a long bow to accuse him of trying to provoke.

3. King is no leader of any movement, but you know who is? The President of the United States. In recent weeks Trump has called COVID Kung Flu (fanning flames of anti Chinese racism which targets individuals and not governments), has called himself a President of law and order and then used tear gas, rubber bullets and flash bangs to disperse crowds of peaceful protesters so he could awkwardly clutch a bible at a nearby church for a photo op, has threatened to use military force to stop protesters, has shared claims protesters are terrorists on social media, has openly implied testing for COVID-19 should be reduced to reduce numbers of recorded cases and has brazenly encouraged people to ignore social distancing guidelines whilst his country is in the grip of a pandemic. He even encouraged protesters to openly challenge state authority by breaching social distancing laws to participate in anti lockdown protests. How can he be serious about expecting BLM protesters to abide by his own curfew laws when he doesn't respect state authority? If we are going to talk about influential people using words to encourage irresponsible, damaging and reckless attitudes and actions, I think the conversation should start with Trump, not with a guy like Shaun King - who is not a leader of the movement in any case. Trump is a much bigger threat to the ideals of western democracy.

1. Whether or not the majority of protestors have been looting and vandalism 'is the norm' is not the point. The point is that looting and vandalism has happened on a wide scale across multiple cities in america and even spread to the UK. Thank god it never took off here in Australia. By all reports thousands of people appear to have involved themselves in looting, vandalism and rioting.
2. I've seen pictures and videos of a number of churches with graffiti and from memory with their windows broken (the one in DC).
3. Personally I found it pretty amusing to hear Trump call the virus the Kung Flu. Yes it's childish but it's also funny. I also don't think that calling a virus the 'Kung flu' incentivises anyone to be racist to chinese people, but I think it does remind people that the reason the world is in the position it is currently in is because of China and it's lies about the virus.

 

[KambahOne]

The fact that corruption exists within democracies is not an argument for democracies being a bad idea. If you think democracies are a bad idea, the question is 'bad in comparison to WHAT'? what system of government are you suggesting is within ready reach that would do a better job?

Are you suggesting that corruption and abuse of power is limited to the western world? Surely I don't need to tell you how crazy this argument would be. I'm not defending corruption or abuses of power, both are abhorent but both have existed since the dawn of time. Do you really think that holding up 'black lives matter' signs and putting black squares on your instagram feed is going to suddenly stop corruption and abuses of power after a few thousand years?

I'm saying our western ideals lend themselves to allow the abuse of power and corruption. Dyson Heydon is yet another example. A High Court Judge from the highest court in our country, a representative of the epitome of our legal system sees himself as above the law. How can someone who sees himself as that achieve the highest position within our legal system?

I personally find this part of the American system odd, and I don't understand the reasoning for it well enough to have a debate about it. Then again many aspects of the american system are strange to me (e.g. the election of district prosecutors and judges) rather than our system where judges are appointment by government.

FYI I'm not someone who blindly defends my side of politics (conservative) my religion (catholic) or my preferred political system (e.g. american democracy).

For example conservatives in America have done an awful job of presenting an alternative to the BLM protests to the point where BLM have run over the top of the police and politicians and corporates to the point where people are so fearful that they will literally do anything to avoid being targeted by BLM.

Another example, some catholic priests abused their power and committed unspeakable crimes against young children for many years. This is disgusting and has created an enormous amount of distrust in the catholic church.

In terms of democracy, you can take your pick for examples of people abusing their power within democracies all over the world. Thankfully there are generally checks on power and systems in place and generally these people are eventually brought to account.

Part of the reason state governments wanted to close local councils was financial, part of it was ideological (conservatives do not like big government) and part of it was for efficiency (why have so many councils for such little areas).

Again, the fact that corruption and abuses of power occur, does not mean we should suddenly get rid of democracy. Mainly because there is no alternative that would do a better job, but also because destroying the system would create worse outcomes for all involved from a public safety, financial and quality of life perspective.


I never looked into why the GFC happened, but your description seems to be pretty fair based on everything i've heard and read. I generally agree with you, businesses and corporations are prone to abusing their power for the sake of profit if you let them. There needs to be a level of monitoring and checks on them to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Obama did put in place numerous measures to ensure this doesn't happen again. As soon as Trump and the Retardlicans took office they got rid of them and they did so without taking that to the American people during the election. Would you consider that an abuse of power?

If you just asked me, I'd be happy to tell you exactly what I think about western civilisation. I think the concept of western civilisation and the ideals that it strives for are definitely a beacon of hope. However, like all humans in the world and all institutions in the world it is flawed to the extent that human beings are involved as all humans are inherently flawed. It is why we need to always ensure that businesses and government are accountable to 'the people', that penalties for people who abuse their power are a deterrent and that there are regulatory bodies in place who can monitor and discover abuses of power before they get out of control.

Those are some thick rose coloured glasses mate.

 

[Flanagun]

1. Whether or not the majority of protestors have been looting and vandalism 'is the norm' is not the point. The point is that looting and vandalism has happened on a wide scale across multiple cities in america and even spread to the UK. Thank god it never took off here in Australia. By all reports thousands of people appear to have involved themselves in looting, vandalism and rioting.
2. I've seen pictures and videos of a number of churches with graffiti and from memory with their windows broken (the one in DC).
3. Personally I found it pretty amusing to hear Trump call the virus the Kung Flu. Yes it's childish but it's also funny. I also don't think that calling a virus the 'Kung flu' incentivises anyone to be racist to chinese people, but I think it does remind people that the reason the world is in the position it is currently in is because of China and it's lies about the virus.

1. So valid discussion topics should be taken off the table due to the actions of a violent minority?

2. Of course some churches have been damaged....as have public and private buildings of various descriptions.... there's no evidence to connect Shaun King's words to those actions.

3. You only have to venture onto public comment threads on social media to see the high levels of anti Chinese sentiment that are bubbling over at present.....do you really think cracking stereotypical racially charged jokes is a responsible way for an elected official to behave? Do you think people really need reminding of where the virus originated? Everyone is well aware of that. The xenophobic dog whistling of the President Defect adds nothing to the conversation....it only serves as an attempt by him to avoid being held accountable for his own ineptitude and gross negligence in handling the crisis in his own country while his supporters continue to blame the Chinese and talk about how edgy their elected demagogue is. I also notice you didn't respond to any of my other points about him. The guy is a deadset societal vandal and i really don't understand why you're worried about the comments of a man who has been all but disowned by the movement you claimed he is a leader of, when someone as powerful and influential as the president is behaving so irresponsibly.