Australia day / invasion Day shit fight thread

[Dawgfather]

This is the thing, mate. Many people do, even though the date doesn't make a shred of difference. These stubborn people are the reason many of us take issue with Australia Day. It is not the idea of a day celebrating the nation, in itself, it is the fact a large number of vocal a-holes resist the push to make it more inclusive at every turn. Let's celebrate the nation, for sure.....but let's just choose to do it on a date

I didn't just ask whether you had visited remote parts of the country. I asked whether you had made any effort to hold meaningful conversations with elders or other members of these remote Indigenous communities about the challenges they face.

Nobody (including the media) denies that these problems exist in these communities and nobody claims that conciliatory gestures such as changing the date of a national holiday will magically make these problems go away.....but I think anyone with common sense should be able to see that issues such as low self esteem and a sense of disconnection from our national identity help to perpetuate these destructive (and often self destructive) cycles...and that acknowledging this basic truth will do more good than harm. Nobody is even trying to present this as a be all, end all solution to problems which clearly run much deeper. Just another step in the process of attempting to build trust with elders and social workers in remote communities which might help us form a more cooperative approach in order to help us address these serious issues and challenges in a more meaningful way.

And please stop pretending this is an issue that affects all Aussies equally. We could change the date tomorrow and it would not negatively impact the self esteem or sense of identity of Australians in any form of meaningful way.

The only identities this issue threatens are the identities of those who want to be both patriotic and loyal to their cultural background and find it hard to reconcile these two goals based on the stubborn insistence that we continue to celebrate a day that is supposed to symbolise our unity on a date which holds deeply painful connotations for many.

If you are so confident this is just an issue that has been confected by white inner city academics, what is your opposition to a poll which is specific to Fist Nations people to determine their views on the change the date debate? If you are confident the majority of Indigenous Australians don't have an issue with the current date, what are you afraid of?

If you’re suggesting that the changing of the date affects people mostly of on ethnicity, then I’d suggest that’s plainly racist. Not just racist but also clearly inaccurate.

Yes, if you want to interrogate me, because I was semi-living in those remote places I would often have conversations with locals of all persuasions including white aussies, aboriginal aussies and also some foreign workers.

I’m fine if a company wants to go out and exclusively ask questions to aboriginals about changing the date. It’s a free world, why shouldn’t they be allowed to?

 

[Flanagun]

If you’re suggesting that the changing of the date affects people mostly of on ethnicity, then I’d suggest that’s plainly racist. Not just racist but also clearly inaccurate.

Yes, if you want to interrogate me, because I was semi-living in those remote places I would often have conversations with locals of all persuasions including white aussies, aboriginal aussies and also some foreign workers.

I’m fine if a company wants to go out and exclusively ask questions to aboriginals about changing the date. It’s a free world, why shouldn’t they be allowed to?

Lol....trying to throw the racist label at me now? That's just projection at its finest. There is nothing racist about stating a fact. Australia Day has only been celebrated in its current incarnation and on its current date for less than 40 years. Changing the date would have zero negative impact on our collective national self esteem. Our national identity survived just fine for 200 years without an Australia day celebration on Jan 26 and it would continue to survive just fine if we moved the holiday to a date everybody could get behind. If the conversation was about abolishing the holiday entirely, you may have a point. It is not and you do not. I've not seen you provide one credible argument as to how it would have a negative impact on us as a nation....just more "they are trying to steal our identity" projection. The only identity theft we should be talking about is the cultural identity theft of our first nations people which took place over the first 170 or so years of our nation's post colonial history. Not because we should use the past as a reason to dislike, or disrespect the nation we have become, but because acknowledging the uglier truths of our past is the best was to try to understand perspectives of those who are uncomfortable with a celebration being held on Jan 26.

Asking for you to specifically address my question is not interrogation, any more than unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence is a compelling argumentative tool.

I hope someone conducts that poll one day. It may not change anything in the scheme of things, but at very least I think it would in all likelihood disprove some of your broad and unsupported generalisations.

 

[N4TE]

A interesting fact. I was at the Big Day Out on the famous Cronulla Riots day but I did get that infamous text in a mass text egging on the violence. Most of my mates were at a friends joint in Cronulla that day watching the shit going on from their balcony. Also that infamous picture on the train with the bogan Aussie blokes wearing Australian flags throwing punches at the Lebanese guy all went to my high school in different years. Peakhurst High was considered the “Aussie” school on the area. I think some got locked up for that. AnywY just interesting rid bits of that day.

 

[Dawgfather]

Lol....trying to throw the racist label at me now? That's just projection at its finest. There is nothing racist about stating a fact. Australia Day has only been celebrated in its current incarnation and on its current date for less than 40 years

"Although it was not known as Australia Day until over a century later, records of celebrations on 26 January date back to 1808, with the first official celebration of the formation of New South Wales held in 1818".

Changing the date would have zero negative impact on our collective national self esteem.

It may or it may not. You have no idea what would happen. Once the date was changed, what else might change. Would the new date still be a celebration or would we all have to attend 'sorry day' activities where we bow down based on whether or not we have particular skin colour?

If the conversation was about abolishing the holiday entirely, you may have a point. It is not and you do not.

There is no clear understanding as to what these activists actually want. Mostly because these are groups of angry young uni kids who haven't even worked out how to formulate well rounded thoughts.

There is no well articulated stance on the issue, nor is there a well articulated 'solution. You should never agree to anything without knowing what it is you are agreeing to.

1. They are unable to agree with themselves on which date they believe is 'less offensive'
2. They have not said whether the nature of the national holiday should day (i.e. what activities take place)
3. They have not said what significance the new day will have (will it still be a celebration of Australia, or will it start to include activities that teach Australians to be ashamed of themselves?

but because acknowledging the uglier truths of our past is the best was to try to understand perspectives of those who are uncomfortable with a celebration being held on Jan 26.

Rubbish. Most of primary and high school and the general narrative in the media as well as in corporate Australia is constantly reminding people about events from the past (to the point where there is no longer a balanced view of our history). Kids are constantly taught at school about how awful and racist Australia was/is.

I hope someone conducts that poll one day. It may not change anything in the scheme of things, but at very least I think it would in all likelihood disprove some of your broad and unsupported generalisations.

I look forward to someone doing that poll as well. Particularly if they collect their data based on postcode, and a number of other factors so people can see where this push is coming from.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Suggesting we hold referendums on things that affect the entire nation, and then suggesting only people with one ethnicity in the country should vote on it, sounds like something out of Nazi Germany.

Problem is that if you hold a referendum on the whole nation then you don't get an accurate representation. Considering that the question is, "does the Aboriginal community want the date changed?", then it's pointless asking non-Aboriginals.

It wouldn't be a referendum though. It would be a Plebiscite. Then based on the results of the Plebiscite we would know if the majority of the Aboriginal community want the date changed. If they do then it's up to Parliament to decide if a date change goes ahead. If the majority don't support it then we will know it's not the community backing it and the debate can be put to bed.

 

[Dawgfather]

Problem is that if you hold a referendum on the whole nation then you don't get an accurate representation. Considering that the question is, "does the Aboriginal community want the date changed?", then it's pointless asking non-Aboriginals.

It wouldn't be a referendum though. It would be a Plebiscite. Then based on the results of the Plebiscite we would know if the majority of the Aboriginal community want the date changed. If they do then it's up to Parliament to decide if a date change goes ahead. If the majority don't support it then we will know it's not the community backing it and the debate can be put to bed.

Holding a private poll just for aboriginals is perfectly fine.

However, suggesting that a national holiday should be changed, but only if one particular ethnicity of people within the country says so, is racism at it's finest.

 

[N4TE]

A interesting fact. I was at the Big Day Out on the famous Cronulla Riots day but I did get that infamous text in a mass text egging on the violence. Most of my mates were at a friends joint in Cronulla that day watching the shit going on from their balcony. Also that infamous picture on the train with the bogan Aussie blokes wearing Australian flags throwing punches at the Lebanese guy all went to my high school in different years. Peakhurst High was considered the “Aussie” school on the area. I think some got locked up for that. AnywY just interesting rid bits of that day.

Also just for nostalgia sake check out the fucking lineup that year at the BDO..

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Holding a private poll just for aboriginals is perfectly fine.

However, suggesting that a national holiday should be changed, but only if one particular ethnicity of people within the country says so, is racism at it's finest.

Only if the move causes major inconvenience for a single race. If the majority of the Aboriginal community say that they refuse to celebrate Australia day as long as it's on the 26th, then not moving it would be racist.

 

[Mr 95%]

Only if the move causes major inconvenience for a single race. If the majority of the Aboriginal community say that they refuse to celebrate Australia day as long as it's on the 26th, then not moving it would be racist.

Exactly Hacky..

 

[Dawgfather]

Only if the move causes major inconvenience for a single race. If the majority of the Aboriginal community say that they refuse to celebrate Australia day as long as it's on the 26th, then not moving it would be racist.

haha. It's becoming painful pointing out the obvious so often, but your logic is so backwards it's hilarious.

There is no way you can have made it through university and are a scientist....actually pause that thought - I think it actually makes a lot of sense that you made your way through uni with thoughts like that.

 

[Rodzilla]

The problem is too many people give a fuck about small matters like what we call the day

Call it the Pauline Hanson kkk celebration for all I care, or the Ernie dingos got my baby stolen generation payback celebration day, that important thing is the day off ffs

 

[Hacky McAxe]

haha. It's becoming painful pointing out the obvious so often, but your logic is so backwards it's hilarious.

There is no way you can have made it through university and are a scientist....actually pause that thought - I think it actually makes a lot of sense that you made your way through uni with thoughts like that.

Your trolling is weak but your racism is strong. Both are a fail. If your trolling improves you may get a D-, but right now you're an F.

 

[Dawgfather]

If the majority of the Aboriginal community say that they refuse to celebrate Australia day as long as it's on the 26th, then not moving it would be racist.

I thought this forum had a 'stance' against racism:

https://www.thekennel.net.au/forum/...ill-result-in-a-week-ban.116366/#post-3799456

 

[Dawgfather]

Would the kennel's team of moderators have enough back bone to apply the racism policy against one of it's own?

 

[N4TE]

Would the kennel's team of moderators have enough back bone to apply the racism policy against one of it's own?

Who are you even talking to bro?

 

[Dawgfather]

Who are you even talking to bro?

I was considering tagging Tones or one of the other people who claim to be 'moderators', but remembered that I didn't want to be a low life snitch like many of Hacky's folks.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I was considering tagging Tones or one of the other people who claim to be 'moderators', but remembered that I didn't want to be a low life snitch like many of Hacky's folks.

Please tag them, you'll be getting banned for your racism again

 

[N4TE]

I was considering tagging Tones or one of the other people who claim to be 'moderators', but remembered that I didn't want to be a low life snitch like many of Hacky's folks.

I think I reported one of your posts once because it was quite inappropriate so you can consider me a boneyard dog (seeing we are using gaol terminology) which if I think about it is quite appropriate for a forum called The Kennel.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I thought this forum had a 'stance' against racism:

https://www.thekennel.net.au/forum/...ill-result-in-a-week-ban.116366/#post-3799456

It does. But the forum also takes leniency on people who can't understand when they are being racist. Hence why you're still here.

Honestly, there's pretty much zero chance that someone could take my comments as racist in anyway. So either you're a complete idiot, which I know you're not, or you're trolling. In which case, your trolling is weak. Troll someone else.