The Real Outcomes of BLM

[Hacky McAxe]

This is thought provoking.

View attachment 17116

Speaking of such. Anyone know what's happened with that trial lately?

Haven't been following it much myself.

 

[Dawgfather]

I

The odd part here is that Wendog merely shared a photo and said that it was thought provoking. You are the one that brought up the race aspect and then used that to accuse her of racism.

Projecting much?

I know enough Of particular posters thoughts on things to safely assume what the message was.

if I’m wrong I’ll withdraw.

 

[Flanagun]

I’m not interested in telling any specific people anything.

I’m just articulating an opinion in cyber space. Not sure which part of that is offensive. You can choose yourself if you have the patience or energy to respond to me.

I’d suggest it would be better if you articulated an actual response instead of going halfway and then acting as though it’s beneath you.

Didn’t really ask for your advice.

 

[wendog33]

I

I know enough Of particular posters thoughts on things to safely assume what the message was.

if I’m wrong I’ll withdraw.

Bye

 

[Dawgfather]

What's the go with the Breonna Taylor case? I just saw it was confirmed that it was not a 'no knock warrant'. Also from what I've read, the whole thing eventuated because police were there to deal with her boyfriend who was a drug dealer.

Her bf fired at police, police shot back and accidentally killed her as she was caught up in the cross fire.

Can someone who has some knowledge of the case describe why people are so angry about the case?

It sounds like a tragedy that she died as she hadn't done anything wrong, but where is the case for 'racism' in this one?

*Edited* from what I've now understood, there were suspicions Breonna Taylor was involved in her boyfriends drug dealing. I still think it's a tragedy she died, given it was her boyfriend who shot at the cops and not her.

 

[Flanagun]

What's the go with the Breonna Taylor case? I just saw it was confirmed that it was not a 'no knock warrant'. Also from what I've read, the whole thing eventuated because police were there to deal with her boyfriend who was a drug dealer.

Her bf fired at police, police shot back and killed him (and her) as she was caught up in the cross fire.

Can someone who has some knowledge of the case describe why people are so angry about the case?

It sounds like a tragedy that she died as she hadn't done anything wrong, but where is the case for 'racism' in this one?

*Edited* from what I've now understood, there were suspicions Breonna Taylor was involved in her boyfriends drug dealing. I still think it's a tragedy she died, given it was her boyfriend who shot at the cops and not her.

Where are you getting this info from? I think there's a bit of misinformation here.

1) There is no evidence of her boyfriend Kenneth Walker being a drug dealer. He wasn't even a suspect. Wasn't even named in a search warrant. Breonna's address was apparently on the warrant because police had seen a package being collected from the home by the main suspect. The suspect claimed that he was having packages of clothes delivered to hear house because he feared they would be stolen if he had them delivered to his own home. Say what you will about the reliability of the suspect, but it is not an implausible story, especially given no drugs were found on the premises and the Louisville US postal inspector had been asked to investigate whether bpackages being delivered to the address were suspicious and had determined they were not.

2) Police had located the main suspect prior to forcibly entering Taylor's home. Why they needed to break the door down when they had already located the suspect and may or may not have known he had been apprehended, I do not know.

3) Neighbours said they did not hear police announce themselves, so there is every chance Kenneth Walker didn't either and thought he was defending the place from an intruder, which he was legally entitled to do.

4) Apparently police fired 20 rounds into the apartment in resposnse to one shot from a man who probably thought he was dealing with a home invasion. One of them has already been indicted for firing ten rounds into the apartment blindly, some of which went through the wall into the adjoining apartment.

This link provides a pretty balanced fact check of falsehoods on both sides of the account. https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...-taylor-fact-check-7-rumors-wrong/5326938002/

 

[Dawgfather]

Where are you getting this info from? I think there's a bit of misinformation here.

1) There is no evidence of her boyfriend Kenneth Walker being a drug dealer. He wasn't even a suspect. Wasn't even named in a search warrant. Breonna's address was apparently on the warrant because police had seen a package being collected from the home by the main suspect. The suspect claimed that he was having packages of clothes delivered to hear house because he feared they would be stolen if he had them delivered to his own home. Say what you will about the reliability of the suspect, but it is not an implausible story, especially given no drugs were found on the premises and the Louisville US postal inspector had been asked to investigate whether bpackages being delivered to the address were suspicious and had determined they were not.

2) Police had located the main suspect prior to forcibly entering Taylor's home. Why they needed to break the door down when they had already located the suspect and may or may not have known he had been apprehended, I do not know.

3) Neighbours said they did not hear police announce themselves, so there is every chance Kenneth Walker didn't either and thought he was defending the place from an intruder, which he was legally entitled to do.

4) Apparently police fired 20 rounds into the apartment in resposnse to one shot from a man who probably thought he was dealing with a home invasion. One of them has already been indicted for firing ten rounds into the apartment blindly, some of which went through the wall into the adjoining apartment.

This link provides a pretty balanced fact check of falsehoods on both sides of the account. https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...-taylor-fact-check-7-rumors-wrong/5326938002/

Interesting. I'll do some more reading.

What I'm trying to get to is why her name is often brought up in the context of racist police shooting. Is there some evidence that these police shot her because she was black?

 

[Dawgfather]

More 'peaceful' protests in America overnight. 2 police officers shot by 'protestors'.

2 Officers Shot in Louisville Protests Over Breonna Taylor Charging Decision

A grand jury didn’t charge any officers with killing Ms. Taylor in her apartment, prompting protests nationwide. A former detective was indicted on three counts of “wanton endangerment.”

www.nytimes.com

 

[Hacky McAxe]

What's the go with the Breonna Taylor case? I just saw it was confirmed that it was not a 'no knock warrant'. Also from what I've read, the whole thing eventuated because police were there to deal with her boyfriend who was a drug dealer.

Her bf fired at police, police shot back and accidentally killed her as she was caught up in the cross fire.

Can someone who has some knowledge of the case describe why people are so angry about the case?

It sounds like a tragedy that she died as she hadn't done anything wrong, but where is the case for 'racism' in this one?

*Edited* from what I've now understood, there were suspicions Breonna Taylor was involved in her boyfriends drug dealing. I still think it's a tragedy she died, given it was her boyfriend who shot at the cops and not her.

It's a tragic case of mix up and police screw up but here's the details:

- the boyfriend who fired at police was not a drug dealer and had no prior convictions

- police had a search warrant for the apartment as they thought that her former boyfriend was selling drugs out of the apartment at some stage. This was bad Intel as she had broken up with him a long time ago

- Her current boyfriend at the time who was in the apartment was not a drug dealer and had no criminal charges

- police say that they knocked and declared themselves, and then breached the apartment after no one responded

- The boyfriend claims that they got out of bed because they heard banging at the door and they thought it was her ex-boyfriend (the drug dealer), then they breached the door without saying who they were

- The boyfriend thinking it was the ex-boyfriend, fired a single shot toward them that hit one of the officers in the leg

- the police returned fire with two officer shooting about 8-10 round each at them and another officer outside shooting 10 rounds through a window with a blind over it with no line of sight of what he was shooting at (which is against protocol)

- the officer who fired blindly through the window was fired but no other charges were originally laid. After the protests they arrested the officer then recently indicted him for recklessness and breaching protocol but they couldn't charge any officer with murder as they don't know who's bullets hit her

- she was shot 5 times

Basically it's a tragic situation that was made a lot worse by police not following protocol. The worst parts were that:

1) one officer blindly firing into an apartment where he could have hit anyone. For all he knows there could have been kids and elderly in there and he didn't care. Just started shooting randomly

2) the police response to this was to fire him and they thought that was sufficient even though he likely killed an innocent woman because of his neglect for human life and protocol

3) the officer that copped the bullet in the leg, basically came out criticising the police for firing his mate. Saying that she was a criminal and got what she deserved even though she wasn't a criminal

 

[Flanagun]

Interesting. I'll do some more reading.

What I'm trying to get to is why her name is often brought up in the context of racist police shooting. Is there some evidence that these police shot her because she was black?

Well, you've got to ask the question, would they have even bothered to secure a no knock warrant or broken the door down over a soft suspect in a non violent drug case in a predominantly white community? I personally have my doubts. At very least it seems there was some police ineptitude involved and the blatant misinformation that is circulating is pretty clear evidence of racist attitudes on behalf of those who are creating those lies.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Interesting. I'll do some more reading.

What I'm trying to get to is why her name is often brought up in the context of racist police shooting. Is there some evidence that these police shot her because she was black?

I think it was a combination of the police officer firing blindly into an apartment that could have had any number of innocent people in there, along with the fact that police didn't do much in response, and one of the officers basically said that she was a criminal and died for it and he didn't get reprimanded for it.

Can't say for sure that it's racism but it definitely feels that way.

 

[Flanagun]

I think it was a combination of the police officer firing blindly into an apartment that could have had any number of innocent people in there, along with the fact that police didn't do much in response, and one of the officers basically said that she was a criminal and died for it and he didn't get reprimanded for it.

Can't say for sure that it's racism but it definitely feels that way.

Why are they banging doors of soft suspects down anyway? Is that standard procedure there? Seems absurd and totally reckless to me.

 

[Dogna88]

I think it was a combination of the police officer firing blindly into an apartment that could have had any number of innocent people in there, along with the fact that police didn't do much in response, and one of the officers basically said that she was a criminal and died for it and he didn't get reprimanded for it.

Can't say for sure that it's racism but it definitely feels that way.

Yeh i dunno. In this event its seems we are painting police stupidity, procedure failures, warrant failures with the racism brush.

That said, i know little about the event apart from what i have read in the past few posts.

My issue with warrants in the US is their grounds for application can be broad and are not restrictive as they are here in Aus. Procedures for executing the warrants are cowboy like.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yeh i dunno. In this event its seems we are painting police stupidity, procedure failures, warrant failures with the racism brush.

That said, i know little about the event apart from what i have read in the past few posts.

My issue with warrants in the US is their grounds for application can be broad and are not restrictive as they are here in Aus. Procedures for executing the warrants are cowboy like.

Yeah, it's definitely not cut and dry and 100% racist. It's more likely just police stupidity. The racial aspect is more about the fact that an innocent woman was killed because of police neglect and no one was charged. Many believe if the woman was white then the officer would have been behind bars the next day.

 

[Dogna88]

Yeah, it's definitely not cut and dry and 100% racist. It's more likely just police stupidity. The racial aspect is more about the fact that an innocent woman was killed because of police neglect and no one was charged. Many believe if the woman was white then the officer would have been behind bars the next day.

I thought there were charges? Its would be near impossible to prove manslaughter let alone murder. I dont know the appropriate charge in the US for police negligence.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I thought there were charges? Its would be near impossible to prove manslaughter let alone murder. I dont know the appropriate charge in the US for police negligence.

Not initially. Originally they fired the officer and were done with it. They didn't place charges until the protests had been going for a while.

The shooting happened about 6 months ago.

 

[Dawgfather]

Not initially. Originally they fired the officer and were done with it. They didn't place charges until the protests had been going for a while.

The shooting happened about 6 months ago.

The other way of interpreting this is that there were no charges involved until violent mobs started protesting about it. Governors and mayors attempting to avoid a repeat of countless other american cities which suffered rioting and looting, may be willing to offer 'sacrificial lambs' in the form of charges against officers, just to avoid their cities being damaged.

 

[Dogna88]

Not initially. Originally they fired the officer and were done with it. They didn't place charges until the protests had been going for a while.

The shooting happened about 6 months ago.

What charges were they?

I totally agree that the US warrant application process and the execution process are heavily flawed. Like its mind boggling how much power they have with so little accountability (warrants).

But for those expecting manslaughter/murder charges. Need to forget the reasons behind the warrant, need to forget the entry or who the people were or were not. Thats all for the coroner to make recommendations on the monumental fuck up. To prove murder, the prosecutors would need alot more to prove intent of an individual than the fuck ups of a system.

And yes. The guy only fired one bullet. But for those who have never been in a situation where there are multiple gun shots in a small room. You can't tell where the gun shots are coming from. I highly doubt. In those 2, maybe 3 seconds of shooting, that any officer there would realise the guy had stopped shooting.

 

[Flanagun]

The other way of interpreting this is that there were no charges involved until violent mobs started protesting about it. Governors and mayors attempting to avoid a repeat of countless other american cities which suffered rioting and looting, may be willing to offer 'sacrificial lambs' in the form of charges against officers, just to avoid their cities being damaged.

Wow, I'm amazed even you could make a suggestion like this.

The reckless idiot who was charged fired ten rounds blindly into an apartment through a closed window. Not only is it highly likely he killed Breonna Taylor, he could well have killed innocent people living in the next apartment. If you are even entertaining the possibility he didn't deserve it, you're off your rocker, mate.

 

[Dawgfather]

Wow, I'm amazed even you could make a suggestion like this.

The reckless idiot who was charged fired ten rounds blindly into an apartment through a closed window. Not only is it highly likely he killed Breonna Taylor, he could well have killed innocent people living in the next apartment. If you are even entertaining the possibility he didn't deserve it, you're off your rocker, mate.

I’d need to see more evidence before convincing myself one way or the other. I didn’t say I believed the interpretation, I simply said it’s another possible interpretation.

We’ve already seen political prosecutions like the one in Atlanta after Rayshard Brooks drove drunk, resisted arrest, assaulted police, stole a taser and then fired at police....only for the police to be charged for shooting him dead.