Dean Pay - Mega Thread

[Vlasnik]

I agree why postpone the inevitable??? With Mbye signing or set to sign with the tigers why wouldn't we let him go before the June 30 dead line. The tigers would have to start paying him earlier and we would save a little extra money this year by letting him go before the dead line.

 

[Wahesh]

No more new Mbye threads please. We all have our 2 cents, let's all discuss it together.

 

[Wahesh]

I agree why postpone the inevitable??? With Mbye signing or set to sign with the tigers why wouldn't we let him go before the June 30 dead line. The tigers would have to start paying him earlier and we would save a little extra money this year by letting him go before the dead line.

Why not? Because we need our fullback for the remainder of this year. The Salary Cap shit is for NEXT YEAR. Let's have him with us for this year and then free up the space from NEXT YEAR. Perhaps we can at least avoid the wooden spoon.

 

[bcmf]

Why not? Because we need our fullback for the remainder of this year. The Salary Cap shit is for NEXT YEAR. Let's have him with us for this year and then free up the space from NEXT YEAR. Perhaps we can at least avoid the wooden spoon.

I kinda want us to get the spoon. If we are thinking along the lines of “short term pain for long term gain”, a spoon position would surely put the blow torch to pay, whom in my opinion is out of his depth.

I imagine this situation —> we release mbye, get Meaney and realise he is a dud like his mate cogger. Mbye carries on at the tigers and everyone is like wtf and looks at pay.

 

[Wahesh]

I kinda want us to get the spoon. If we are thinking along the lines of “short term pain for long term gain”, a spoon position would surely put the blow torch to pay, whom in my opinion is out of his depth.

I imagine this situation —> we release mbye, get Meaney and realise he is a dud like his mate cogger. Mbye carries on at the tigers and everyone is like wtf and looks at pay.

People keep blaming Pay. What will it take for people to understand the inherited the mess, he didn't create it. It's like speaking to a brick wall.

 

[Bob dog]

If he goes who will be our fullback?
Mbye went ok for mine, even if he needs improvement, Mbye to stay.

 

[Vlasnik]

Why not? Because we need our fullback for the remainder of this year. The Salary Cap shit is for NEXT YEAR. Let's have him with us for this year and then free up the space from NEXT YEAR. Perhaps we can at least avoid the wooden spoon.

No.....I'd rather start repairing the damage sooner rather than later. The money we would save by letting Mbye go earlier could go towards a back ended contract or suring up players like Lewis, Martin, Woolford..........etc, etc. It is always better ripping of a band-aid quickly rather than slowly. Let's face it if Mbye does sign with the tigers as reported he is then nothing more than a stop gap measure at fullback for us.

 

[Wahesh]

No.....I'd rather start repairing the damage sooner rather than later. The money we would save by letting Mbye go earlier could go towards a back ended contract or suring up players like Lewis, Martin, Woolford..........etc, etc. It is always better ripping of a band-aid quickly rather than slowly. Let's face it if Mbye does sign with the tigers as reported he is then nothing more than a stop gap measure at fullback for us.

And paying at least $300,000 of that for him to play for another team? Have we not learnt from the Graham & Kasiano experiments?

 

[Novdoggie]

Hey mate,

He turns young players into future stars. We saw this at all the clubs he has coached at.

Holland on the bench is for effectiveness.

Klem off the bench is cause he is better for it.

He doesn’t have the roster he needs.


How about all you dudes shut up about the above. Especially about the roster. If you give dean pay the keys i guarantee you, our team will be full of Holland’s and tolmans in each position. Just look at cogger, Meaney and jmk.

Well said mate.

Too many armchair coaches thinking they know the answers looking from the outside in and not prepared to cop the losses but want to sook and blame everything and anyone including a coach who is doing his damn hardest to turn things around and try new things for the better of the team that he has been given to work with. And these people call themselves true Bulldog supporters..Pffft!!

 

[Vlasnik]

And paying at least $300,000 of that for him to play for another team? Have we not learnt from the Graham & Kasiano experiments?

It's better than paying him his full contract which a lot of people quote 750K but is more like 800k-900k due to the ratchet clause written into his contract. I have heard how much he loves the dogs but unfortunately not enough to renegotiate his contract even though his knows the trouble we are having with the cap and even though he himself knows he is over paid.

 

[TigerGoneLoose]

If you let him go now it would free up 400k for this season.

Look to your longest term contract, assuming its 2021. Then frontload your highest paid players contract to this season.

Frees up 400k in that year. Shortens the pain.

You guys are in for a tough couple of years but at the end of it, whoever your coach is at the time will have the luxury of signing whoever they like.

Same happened at the Tigers. Players being on long term backloaded contracts etc. 2017 every player came off contract and Ivan was able to sign a new team. Had its complications with Ted, Moses and Woods but luckily they’re all gone.

 

[Novdoggie]

I was willing to give Pay time but his rotations and some selections are woeful... if he picked the best 17 and rotated them properly then I'd 100% solely blame the team... Dean is out of his depth

Not rotating them properly? You should give examples.

jmk how do you know if he wasn't injured?

rfm he was injured.

Renouf playing his first NRL game played 20mins

Priest 30mins.

Martin and Jackson two of our best played 80mins not needing to come off.

Klemmer our best played 51mins and when he came on we were on top so perfect timing to come on and was effective.

Seriously, I think the blame game against Pay is an easy way for people to blame someone when really they don't know what's really happening. Pay had the players ready and it showed in the first half when we were on top. In the second half no one to blame bar some individual players either not up to standard or their heads are elsewhere. Back off Pay and allow him time to fix the mess he has inherited.

 

[Spoonman84]

Looking at the open market there's no one out there that's really going to turn us around so I would us the Mbye money to re-negotiate every back ended contract left in our cap. According to Hill at the forum there was 7-10 contract that are still backended and it will continue to be a thorn in our side until they are gone.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I cant think of anyone who has flourished whilst working under Stuart.
Dean Pay has coached a lot of young SOO players and has been very successful with them.
He has won a lot of the SOO clashes, so he has got the ability.
However, it doesnt matter how good he is, he cannot perform miracles,
and it would take a miracle for this team to ever challenge for a premiership.
Its common knowledge that the previous coach inflicted almost terminal damage to the club.
It will take a while for that damage to be repaired.
I understand that plans are in place to rebuild the balance of the team, and to get on the right side of the ledger.
It will just take time, so be patient and give support.

Pay was successful at an under 20's level. Not really anything to get excited about. 20's is all attack no D which is what Pay does. Pay's coaching career is bad at first grade level. Defence coach/assistant at Raiders in 2014 - 2017 they averaged 16-20 scored against them and when they win it was 44-22. That's pathetic. There only half decent season was 2016. Pay I don't think has the brains to be the top coach, maybe a head trainer. This talented youth you speak of which Pay has got Cogger, Meaney, JMK, Lichaa all duds man.

 

[The DoggFather]

Whyd he resign lichaa you imbecile?

Because he fell for the 3 games Lichaa played for a contract.

 

[The DoggFather]

If he fucks off before June 30...

1. Holland
2. Morris
3. Olive
4. Morris
5. Hoppa

If he fucks off next year...

1. Holland
2. Morris
3. Olive
4. Morris
5. Mbye (only because fuck montoya) * Hoppa

EDIT actually fuck the **** off no matter what lol

 

[JUNKYARD DOGS]

If he fucks off before June 30...

1. Holland
2. Morris
3. Olive
4. Morris
5. Hoppa

If he fucks off next year...

1. Holland
2. Morris
3. Olive
4. Morris
5. Mbye (only because fuck montoya) * Hoppa

EDIT actually fuck the **** off no matter what lol

Im of the same opinion, if he has in fact signed.
I am one that actually likes the bloke and be more than happy if this is all BS, BUT if signed go now is preference for me. Free some cash up. We aint doing shit this year, might aswell relive some pain

 

[BlackDawg]

We simply cant wriggle out of the inept brainless decisions of our previous management and coach. That is the bottom line. The 2021 season is the renaissance of the dogs. Until then we are simply trying to prevent a wooden spoon. Buying Woods & Foran was the final nail in the coffin. Foran in particular shows the lack of governance and due diligence in our recruitment. In any case we can moan about it all we like but we just gotta ride out this mess until 2021. Until then we should stock the fridge with bottom dollar rising talent and not bother with any marquees whatsoever.

 

[EB18]

Strong mail parra is shopping Corey Norman around. Lets do whatever it takes to get him. Foran and Norman in the havles we work.

 

[froggy]

The jury has to be out on Pay. He has a lot of excuses for why we are going terrible. But it is too easy to just say give him 3 years before we can judge him. Pay needs to be put on notice that we are not a club willing to lose three years just to then say we gave you a chance. He needs to be seen to be improving either the squad or the way we are playing in the meantime.

Not dropping Montoya is indicative of Pay's coaching style. He is not prepared to risk changes. The fact that Olive showed what can happen when fresh talent is injected into the side is enough to show what change can achieve. The problem though is that the Olive change was forced on Pay and he didn't initiate it.

Pay's standing amongst fans would have increased greatly if he had dropped Montoya and put Olive in the centres and pushed Hoppa onto the wing before Jmoz's injury. That would have been proactive coaching. Instead he waited for an injury to change a backline that has scored the least amount of tries this year.