Train Discussion Megathread - Etiquette / Strikes / Gripes

[CaptainJackson]

That is what we all want mate, he problem is the government is intentionally muddying the waters when it comes to information. this comes down to 2 things.

1) The NIF (New Intercity Fleet)
2) A new Enterprise Agreement.

Regarding;

1) the NIF, the RTBU are insistent that essential changes (And being a driver, I do believe them to be essential to the safe operation of the train for our customers) be agreed to by the government before we discuss the new Enterprise Agreement (which expired in May LAST YEAR)

2) the EA, yes, sure we want a pay raise commensurate with inflation, the government originally offered us 0.3% then 2.5% (Including superannuation) both of which constitute a real pay cut.


NOW - The Government - They have said "We have agreed to fix the NIF", but fail to mention that it is conditional upon us agreeing to a 2.5% pay raise per year for 3 years, and some other conditions that are detrimental to us and also allow the government free reign to fuck us without lube moving forward.

They say we keep moving the goal posts, but in reality they kick goals about as good as Sam Burgess could then after they miss badly, complain that we have moved the posts, when in fact they are the same place they were all along.

Personally, I want this DONE, I want it sorted, but, so long as they keep trying to go in Dry, I'll keep fighting

The transport union have conducted themselves ethically, unfortunately the propaganda from the state governments friends in the media is something you guys have to contend with and have had to contend with physical harass from commuters

I well remember that David Elliot and Perrotet couldn't get their stories straight about answering a phone call after hours (apparently elliot doesn't answer calls after he clocks off from his 9 to 5 job) or that Bevan Shields (from the SMH) was told by his own journalists that it wasn't a strike and yet the SMH labelled it as a strike (with Bevan Shields, handpicked peter Costello editor, later producing a retraction and apology) resulting in physical harassment of train workers from commuters

 

[Natboy]

The transport union have conducted themselves ethically, unfortunately the propaganda from the state governments friends in the media is something you guys have to contend with and have had to contend with physical harass from commuters

I well remember that David Elliot and Perrotet couldn't get their stories straight about answering a phone call after hours (apparently elliot doesn't answer calls after he clocks off from his 9 to 5 job) or that Bevan Shields (from the SMH) was told by his own journalists that it wasn't a strike and yet the SMH labelled it as a strike (with Bevan Shields, handpicked peter Costello editor, later producing a retraction and apology) resulting in physical harassment of train workers from commuters

Ethically?!? I have a family member in a senior rail position so get a bit of insight aside from the media and I can’t agree they are behaving ethically sorry

 

[CaptainJackson]

Ethically?!? I have a family member in a senior rail position so get a bit of insight aside from the media and I can’t agree they are behaving ethically sorry

Dude David Elliot and perrotet have been caught lying about the negotiations with the transport union before, nor forgoing the Baralillo stench hanging over Perrotets head

Again THEY WERE CAUGHT LYING. Already in credibility stakes it's 1-0 to the unions because, again, they were caught lying.

To this date the transport union has not been caught lying in the recent spate of disagreements with the current state government

 

[Natboy]

Dude David Elliot and perrotet have been caught lying about the negotiations with the transport union before, nor forgoing the Baralillo stench hanging over Perrotets head

Again THEY WERE CAUGHT LYING. Already in credibility stakes it's 1-0 to the unions because, again, they were caught lying.

To this date the transport union has not been caught lying in the recent spate of disagreements with the current state government

Governments are all liars and fucked but it doesn’t change the union behavior mate. If Claassens isn’t lying he’s certainly misleading and changes his mind more than his underwear.


This isn’t about a payrise, it’s all about passenger safety, oh by the way it’s about a payrise now too

Even your labor premier has publicly condemned the strike action. Forcing sick people to be late for medical appointments and surgery isn’t ethical, instructing members to manually trip the payment system is not ethical, not having staff to help disabled people off trains because the staff are at a union BBQ is not ethical and stopping trains because of rubbish and graffiti? Come on. I don’t think I’ve ever been on a train without rubbish and graffiti.
I can 100% guarantee these all happened last strike.

You can’t instruct your members not to accept overtime and then want more money. The union have lost the plot. There are too many old dinosaurs who need to get with the times and have a reality check. Don’t get me started on all the anti vaxxers in the rail and how they held everyone to ransom

In my opinion from what I’ve read and been told this is 50% about a payrise, 49% about getting Labor elected and 1% about public safety (wank wank).

No offence intended Ecca and it’s nothing person but so many people didn’t have a job during the pandemic and if I was giving anyone a payrise it would be nurses, paramedics, daylight then teachers then train drivers

 

[CaptainJackson]

Governments are all liars and fucked but it doesn’t change the union behavior mate. If Claassens isn’t lying he’s certainly misleading and changes his mind more than his underwear.


This isn’t about a payrise, it’s all about passenger safety, oh by the way it’s about a payrise now too

Even your labor premier has publicly condemned the strike action. Forcing sick people to be late for medical appointments and surgery isn’t ethical, instructing members to manually trip the payment system is not ethical, not having staff to help disabled people off trains because the staff are at a union BBQ is not ethical and stopping trains because of rubbish and graffiti? Come on. I don’t think I’ve ever been on a train without rubbish and graffiti.
I can 100% guarantee these all happened last strike.

You can’t instruct your members not to accept overtime and then want more money. The union have lost the plot. There are too many old dinosaurs who need to get with the times and have a reality check. Don’t get me started on all the anti vaxxers in the rail and how they held everyone to ransom

In my opinion from what I’ve read and been told this is 50% about a payrise, 49% about getting Labor elected and 1% about public safety (wank wank).

No offence intended Ecca and it’s nothing person but so many people didn’t have a job during the pandemic and if I was giving anyone a payrise it would be nurses, paramedics, daylight then teachers then train drivers

How on earth is this about getting Labor elected?

If commuters are pissed at the transport union, which seems to be more the case rather than pissed at the state government, how does this help Labor when people assume (incorrectly) that the unions run Labor. It would have negative polling effect on Labor.

Labor hardly need this incident for elections (which is due March 2023), where people are going to forget about what happens in September 2022, and that's mainly due to the findings in ICAC and Baralillos New York job. Thats what Labor is going to run on (ICAC and fat john in new york and his contacts with bikies), they don't need the traib strikes

As far as negotiations between the unions and the state government for working conditions and pay considerations, I'm not privy to those private discussions (nor are you privy to it), so whatever is produced is conjecture to the exact details.

The state government are just as liable as the unions, to their responsibility to those commuters.

Unions will never ever be 100% on the side of forthrightness but by the same token they still do fight for workers rights and gain workers rights because employers are never 100% on the side of forthrightness

Just as there are shitty employees, there are also shitty employers. So it's completely conceivable that safety may be an issue.

Again neither you, nor I, are privy to those private discussions (I have contacts in high places and hear things too but that does not mean I know exactly what's going on and am experienced in these kind of things to know not to rely on hearsay) and the way the unions have conducted their strikes, with advance warning to commuters, is ethical in the course of industrial action.

 

[CroydonDog]

That is what we all want mate, he problem is the government is intentionally muddying the waters when it comes to information. this comes down to 2 things.

1) The NIF (New Intercity Fleet)
2) A new Enterprise Agreement.

Regarding;

1) the NIF, the RTBU are insistent that essential changes (And being a driver, I do believe them to be essential to the safe operation of the train for our customers) be agreed to by the government before we discuss the new Enterprise Agreement (which expired in May LAST YEAR)

2) the EA, yes, sure we want a pay raise commensurate with inflation, the government originally offered us 0.3% then 2.5% (Including superannuation) both of which constitute a real pay cut.


NOW - The Government - They have said "We have agreed to fix the NIF", but fail to mention that it is conditional upon us agreeing to a 2.5% pay raise per year for 3 years, and some other conditions that are detrimental to us and also allow the government free reign to fuck us without lube moving forward.

They say we keep moving the goal posts, but in reality they kick goals about as good as Sam Burgess could then after they miss badly, complain that we have moved the posts, when in fact they are the same place they were all along.

Personally, I want this DONE, I want it sorted, but, so long as they keep trying to go in Dry, I'll keep fighting

Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[BELMORE]

Yeah government should give pay rises in line with inflation that is exactly how you fix inflation and it definitely won’t make it worse

 

[Natboy]

How on earth is this about getting Labor elected?

If commuters are pissed at the transport union, which seems to be more the case rather than pissed at the state government, how does this help Labor when people assume (incorrectly) that the unions run Labor. It would have negative polling effect on Labor.

Labor hardly need this incident for elections (which is due March 2023), where people are going to forget about what happens in September 2022, and that's mainly due to the findings in ICAC and Baralillos New York job. Thats what Labor is going to run on (ICAC and fat john in new york and his contacts with bikies), they don't need the traib strikes

As far as negotiations between the unions and the state government for working conditions and pay considerations, I'm not privy to those private discussions (nor are you privy to it), so whatever is produced is conjecture to the exact details.

The state government are just as liable as the unions, to their responsibility to those commuters.

Unions will never ever be 100% on the side of forthrightness but by the same token they still do fight for workers rights and gain workers rights because employers are never 100% on the side of forthrightness

Just as there are shitty employees, there are also shitty employers. So it's completely conceivable that safety may be an issue.

Again neither you, nor I, are privy to those private discussions (I have contacts in high places and hear things too but that does not mean I know exactly what's going on and am experienced in these kind of things to know not to rely on hearsay) and the way the unions have conducted their strikes, with advance warning to commuters, is ethical in the course of industrial action.

Come on man, if peoples trains don’t arrive they don’t think oh Alex Claassens is on a committee to ensure that Labor are elected and was handing out Labor how to vote cards in a red labor T-shirt at the federal election they blame the current government. That goes with anything.

I’ve said here previously that I think Labor will win in March. I’ve also said I’m leaning towards voting for them but my second worry (after Chris Minns being so western Sydney centric) is that Minns doesn’t seem to have the balls to even call the union and tell them to pull their heads in. He admitted himself that he isn’t happy with the strike action but hasn’t called them.

I think it’s the unions more following what they’ve been instructed at the IRC rather than being ethical. Let’s see how this pans out. I very rarely catch a train so it doesn’t worry me personally but as I’ve touched on, they are all lucky they kept a very good paying job when others didn’t have a job. I’m not anti union but still can’t agree they are ethical at all

 

[BELMORE]

Come on man, if peoples trains don’t arrive they don’t think oh Alex Claassens is on a committee to ensure that Labor are elected and was handing out Labor how to vote cards in a red labor T-shirt at the federal election they blame the current government. That goes with anything.

I’ve said here previously that I think Labor will win in March. I’ve also said I’m leaning towards voting for them but my second worry (after Chris Minns being so western Sydney centric) is that Minns doesn’t seem to have the balls to even call the union and tell them to pull their heads in. He admitted himself that he isn’t happy with the strike action but hasn’t called them.

I think it’s the unions more following what they’ve been instructed at the IRC rather than being ethical. Let’s see how this pans out. I very rarely catch a train so it doesn’t worry me personally but as I’ve touched on, they are all lucky they kept a very good paying job when others didn’t have a job. I’m not anti union but still can’t agree they are ethical at all

They had a couple years off through 2020-21 and still want a pay rise

 

[Natboy]

They had a couple years off through 2020-21 and still want a pay rise

Yep and the people who refused to get vaccinated or refused to provide their vaccination status have been on full pay and only just returned to work last week!!

 

[BELMORE]

Yep and the people who refused to get vaccinated or refused to provide their vaccination status have been on full pay and only just returned to work last week!!

Yeah I heard about that last week, couldn’t believe it

 

[Natboy]

Yeah I heard about that last week, couldn’t believe it

Now a lot of them are using all the sick leave they accrued too haha. As I said before no offence to Ecca but it’s a very old school lazy culture of entitlement there and they need a clean out

 

[Ecca]

I just get the feeling that even if the government did everything your union wanted there would be something new popping up each time, at least until the election which we all know are very linked

See, this is where you are wrong.
The problem is there is a fair few things that haven't been discussed yet, and once this hurdle is cleared, then the rest can be discussed.

The government claims this is the only issue, which it isn't, it is just such a big issue that the others can't be addressed until this is dealt with

 

[Ecca]

Ethically?!? I have a family member in a senior rail position so get a bit of insight aside from the media and I can’t agree they are behaving ethically sorry

The problem is your source is siding with those with questionable ethics, so grain of salt on that one

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Pumped a panel the other night btw, fresh as fuck

 

[Natboy]

The problem is your source is siding with those with questionable ethics, so grain of salt on that one

No, they are union members too and going off what they read

 

[Natboy]

See, this is where you are wrong.
The problem is there is a fair few things that haven't been discussed yet, and once this hurdle is cleared, then the rest can be discussed.

The government claims this is the only issue, which it isn't, it is just such a big issue that the others can't be addressed until this is dealt with

What hasn’t been discussed yet and what hurdles are they?

 

[Ecca]

No, they are union members too and going off what they read

if they are in the union, their position is NOT senior..

Going off what they read... sigh, sounds like they have no valid point of reference

 

[Ecca]

What hasn’t been discussed yet and what hurdles are they?

Many parts of the enterprise agreement, including, yes PAY.
But also, the addition of, removal of and amendment of key clauses, which, both parties want different things, but they haven't even been discussed yet

 

[Natboy]

Sorry mate you sound like Alex. I’d like to know specifically what the safety issues are if it’s not about pay?

Some I know are in union and some aren’t. What they are reading ie documents from your union, the government, FWC etc. It doesn’t get more official than that.

I hope greed doesn’t backfire because robots won’t strike, call in sick or makes things political