The Ashes Discussion Thread

[The-Game]

Bloody pathetic, top/middle order needs a flush out and the bowlers do to.

 

[sgodllubsti]

absolutely pathetic effort from the Australian cricket team, if this is the best 11 batsman and bowlers we can produce it will be some time before we win a series against any country.

the most over paid over rated team of sportsmen ever, cricket Australia need to have a serious look at it self from the ceo through to the conditioners. why has the Australian institute of sport and all grades of cricket in every state of Australia failed to produce cricketers of the quality we have been used to for so long.
where are our next stars of the game

 

[Stoofy]

absolutely pathetic effort from the Australian cricket team, if this is the best 11 batsman and bowlers we can produce it will be some time before we win a series against any country.

the most over paid over rated team of sportsmen ever, cricket Australia need to have a serious look at it self from the ceo through to the conditioners. why has the Australian institute of sport and all grades of cricket in every state of Australia failed to produce cricketers of the quality we have been used to for so long.
where are our next stars of the game

I think they should forget about Australia & Australia A sides.

They should have a Test Side & 1 Day / Twenty 20 side. There is different style of players for each sides. Siddle is made for Tests. Watson should not be in the Test but possibly 1 day side. Hughes should not be in any side.

 

[Stoofy]

Bloody pathetic, top/middle order needs a flush out and the bowlers do to.

The bowlers are not too bad. In a couple years they will come good.

They are better at batting than our top order batters!

Also where is Pat Cummins & Josh Hazlewood? Are they injured?

 

[Flanagun]

I think they should forget about Australia & Australia A sides.

They should have a Test Side & 1 Day / Twenty 20 side. There is different style of players for each sides. Siddle is made for Tests. Watson should not be in the Test but possibly 1 day side. Hughes should not be in any side.

Completely disagree about Hughes.

He is much improved...not many of our batsmen have showed fight like he did in the first innings of the first test. Agar got all the praise (deserved praise of course...it was an awesome knock), but Agar had no real expectation on him to score runs. The fact Agar played one of the best knocks of all time by a tail ender shouldn't detract from the maturity and poise Hughes showed in compiling his own score. If he had batted as impatiently as some of his top order team mates, Agar never would have had his chance to make history. His problem is the same as just about every batsman in our order right now....consistency. He should be given a decent amount of time to establish himself as a regular in the top order now. He still needs to improve further but I think is actually a good prospect. His technique is much improved since he came back into the side.

Watson is a show pony and has some definite deficiencies in terms of temperament and technique. I wouldn't mind seeing him dropped just for that in all honesty. The question with Watson is more about whether his ego is undermining discipline and certain ideals the coaching staff are trying to impart of the team. If so, he should go. In terms of his ability. He is DEFINITELY good enough to be in the test side....especially while he is bowling.

One day and test sides should be similar with specialist players for each side as has been the case for a number of years. T20 should just be a showcase game. Pick big bash specialists, most of whom never have a chance of getting into the test side and don't waste test quality players' time on T20 I say (sadly whether they play international T20 or not, most will still seek out the fat pay packets of the IPL BBL etc)

The sad fact is as ordinary as our batting order is right now, there is nobody really waiting in the wings to be given a chance. I don't think there is much point in team changes etc when there are no obvious replacements out there. Why would you trade an inconsistent player for a less gifted one who is likely to be less consistent? Our batsmen have ability. We need to look at the coaching structure and set up that is currently failing them. Saying this player or that player shouldn't be a test player is all good and well, but it won't solve the problem if the new players brought in have the same issues.

 

[jo7resh]

our bowlers are not the problem they are the only chance we have got in this series

look what they have bowled out england for in the first two test they havent scored over 400 which i consider good

if our bastman could score over 200 that would be an achievement

 

[Stoofy]

Completely disagree about Hughes.

He is much improved...not many of our batsmen have showed fight like he did in the first innings of the first test. Agar got all the praise (deserved praise of course...it was an awesome knock), but Agar had no real expectation on him to score runs. The fact Agar played one of the best knocks of all time by a tail ender shouldn't detract from the maturity and poise Hughes showed in compiling his own score. If he had batted as impatiently as some of his top order team mates, Agar never would have had his chance to make history. His problem is the same as just about every batsman in our order right now....consistency. He should be given a decent amount of time to establish himself as a regular in the top order now. He still needs to improve further but I think is actually a good prospect. His technique is much improved since he came back into the side.

Watson is a show pony and has some definite deficiencies in terms of temperament and technique. I wouldn't mind seeing him dropped just for that in all honesty. The question with Watson is more about whether his ego is undermining discipline and certain ideals the coaching staff are trying to impart of the team. If so, he should go. In terms of his ability. He is DEFINITELY good enough to be in the test side....especially while he is bowling.

One day and test sides should be similar with specialist players for each side as has been the case for a number of years. T20 should just be a showcase game. Pick big bash specialists, most of whom never have a chance of getting into the test side and don't waste test quality players' time on T20 I say (sadly whether they play international T20 or not, most will still seek out the fat pay packets of the IPL BBL etc)

The sad fact is as ordinary as our batting order is right now, there is nobody really waiting in the wings to be given a chance. I don't think there is much point in team changes etc when there are no obvious replacements out there. Why would you trade an inconsistent player for a less gifted one who is likely to be less consistent? Our batsmen have ability. We need to look at the coaching structure and set up that is currently failing them. Saying this player or that player shouldn't be a test player is all good and well, but it won't solve the problem if the new players brought in have the same issues.

Maybe Im a bit harsh on Hughes.

The coaching staff could be a problem but the players need to be a lot more patient when batting. Their shot selection has been quite poor.

If the players only had the heart of Siddle...... He just never gives up!

 

[Stoofy]

our bowlers are not the problem they are the only chance we have got in this series

look what they have bowled out england for in the first two test they havent scored over 400 which i consider good

if our bastman could score over 200 that would be an achievement

They did last night with the help of the bowlers. Agar looked good but was given out caught behind on review. Crap decision as there was no hot spot, no noise, no nothing.

 

[Natboy]

I don't want to talk about it

 

[Flanagun]

Maybe Im a bit harsh on Hughes.

The coaching staff could be a problem but the players need to be a lot more patient when batting. Their shot selection has been quite poor.

If the players only had the heart of Siddle...... He just never gives up!

I agree with you about patience being a big problem....I think it is partly the Twenty 20 influence and partly an attitude/ mindset issue....coaching might not specifically be the issue either...I didn't phrase that quite right. I'm talking more about our high performance adacemies etc...coaching structures, but ones players go through long before they play for Australia....the amound of T20 being played no doubt has an effect on the attention deficiency of batsmen, but it doesn't explain everything...ie how some other nations whose players play just as much of the shortest form are producing better test batsmen.

Not saying the players are absolved of responsibility...far from it. Like you, I think they need to show some heart and fight. It's just that the talent pool beneath them is very thin also....so before each team chage selectors really have to ask themselves will this make our team better? Dropping players only works if you've got someone else to put in who will do a better job. Dropping the occasional player can inspire an attitude change and improve that player, no doubt...but chopping and changing too often also creates a culture of fear which could make the team perform even worse (if that's possible) so it's a delicate balance.

I don't know what the answer is really. Many experts say we need more foirst class cricket on the domestic schedule...this couldn't hurt.

I DO think Hughes is unfairly maligned by many people. He has improved a lot and has actually showed willingness to become a better batsman technically. For that, I respect him. Hius results are already starting to improve and with a little more time I think he will develop into a solid and dependable player. If Watson would work as hard as Hughes he could be one of the best batsmen in the world.

Hard not to love Siddle....very passionate player and makes things happen just due to his energy and will....agreed more players in the 11 could take a leaf from his book.

 

[jo7resh]

They did last night with the help of the bowlers. Agar looked good but was given out caught behind on review. Crap decision as there was no hot spot, no noise, no nothing.

Well I was referring to just the batsman to score 200 hundred before we even get to our bowlers batting

And yes that was a bullshit call

Hughes should be opening Watson doesn't look happy and Clarke should be first drop or Rogers IMO and bring Warner to open

 

[Stoofy]

Well I was referring to just the batsman to score 200 hundred before we even get to our bowlers batting

And yes that was a bullshit call

Hughes should be opening Watson doesn't look happy and Clarke should be first drop or Rogers IMO and bring Warner to open

Warner to open. We need some fire in our line up.

He could be the new Adam Gilchrist. If we have a good anchor he can really go for it & get rid of the new ball.

 

[The-Game]

Well I was referring to just the batsman to score 200 hundred before we even get to our bowlers batting

And yes that was a bullshit call

Hughes should be opening Watson doesn't look happy and Clarke should be first drop or Rogers IMO and bring Warner to open

Clarke needs to bat at 4 not 5, Watson don't look happy, and honestly half the time he doesn't look interested even being out there. Even Pattinson needs some big improvements, dunno where the likes of Hilfy, Johnson, Bollinger all are.

Just so bloody frustrating watching them get their as5es whupped.

 

[Horse]

A good read provided by Brydon Coverdale from cricinfo.



Forget Tests, BBL is where it's at
Despite the disappointment at Lord's overnight, Cricket Australia had its eyes on the main game on Monday morning: a longer BBL in the upcoming home Ashes summer
Brydon Coverdale
July 22, 2013
Comments: 9 | Login via | Text size: A | A


Four or five hours after Michael Clarke's men crumpled to their humiliating loss at Lord's, Cricket Australia sent out a press release. It contained good news, information that should warm the hearts of cricket lovers throughout the country, the fans who had stayed up over the past four nights, watching the national team's embarrassing attempts at competing with England.

"Cricket Australia's strategy for the BBL is working."

Phew.

"The league has been successful in attracting a new, diverse fan base in its first two years with its mix of big hits, great value and explosive action."

What a relief.

"More than 13% of people who attended the BBL last season were experiencing live cricket for the first time. Families also made up more than 50% of our crowds which is exactly the target audience that we want to attract to T20."

Stats! Great idea! Nobody can argue with figures!

Like, for example, the percentage of Australia's runs scored by last-wicket pairs in this Ashes series (31%). Or the number of years (28) since Australia last lost six consecutive Tests, a run of defeats they matched overnight. Or the number of Australian batsmen averaging over 40 in Tests this year, excluding those who have now retired (0).

Or the number of mentions in the CA press release of the BBL as "cricket" (1), compared to the number of times it is referred to as "entertainment" (3).

Or the number of days from the opening match of the upcoming BBL season until the final (58) compared with last summer's tournament (44). Yes, Cricket Australia said earlier this year they would tighten the BBL schedule up, but now they have decided that a two-month domestic Twenty20 competition over the middle of summer is actually better for the game, fans, players and stakeholders.

Especially when the stakes are so significant. This summer, the BBL will be broadcast on free-to-air television for the first time, after Channel Ten forked out AUD $100 million for the rights over the next five years. That means that almost every day over the summer holidays, you can settle in for some cricket entertainment from the comfort of home.

If the return Ashes series in Australia from November to January becomes too depressing, you can change channels, watch Aaron Finch or Luke Pomersbach whack a hundred off 50 balls and marvel at how much batting talent Australia possesses. Young batsmen Australia-wide will be keen to prove their credentials in the BBL, which occupies an exclusive window on the domestic calendar from December 20 until the end of the regular season matches on January 27.

At the start of February a squad will fly out for three Tests in South Africa, and what better way to audition for a role against the world's No.1-ranked Test team than with six weeks of "big hits" and "explosive action" for the Melbourne Renegades or the Brisbane Heat? Or the Sydney Watchful-Leaves-Outside-Off-Stump? Sorry, Sixers.

Cricket Australia's press release on Monday morning was accompanied by a series of releases from the various BBL teams, confirming their fixtures or a list of players so far signed. It was good to see how many promising young batsmen will be honing their techniques in the BBL from mid-December until mid-February.

Kurtis Patterson, for example, has signed with the Sydney Thunder. In November 2011, Patterson became the youngest batsman to score a century on debut in Australian first-class cricket when at 18 he scored 163 in a Sheffield Shield game for New South Wales. He has struggled in grade cricket since then but will learn some terrific habits during another BBL season, having been part of the Sixers squad last summer.

Let's hope others like Joe Burns, Jordan Silk, Alex Doolan, Peter Forrest and Nic Maddinson work on their batting during the eight weeks of the BBL. For two months, batsmen can put away all those dreary leaves and forward defensive strokes that they've been using during the Sheffield Shield. How about a ramp shot instead? Joe Root showed its value to Test cricket once he reached 180 at Lord's.

In other player movement news, Shane Warne has retired, and Michael Hussey will join the Sydney Thunder. His former team, the Perth Scorchers, were "bitterly disappointed" to lose Hussey, a veteran of four BBL games for the Scorchers. There's just no loyalty in cricket entertainment these days.

Clearly, Hussey was lured by the chance to fly in to ANZ Stadium in a specially painted Sydney Thunder helicopter, an event of appropriate dignity for one of Australia's finest cricketers of the past two decades. It was well conceived, perfectly timed, and a clear illustration that Cricket Australia's strategy for the BBL is working.

Yes, it's good to know that despite the disappointment at Lord's, Cricket Australia had its eyes on the main game on Monday morning.

 

[rainman]

The sad thing is this is a once in 8 year event, and we have ****ed it up

 

[Horse]

Latest since Lords...

- Pattinson ruled out for the series with stress fractures in the lower back, Jackson Bird likely replacement in the starting XI. Bit of push for Chadd Sayers to join the squad as cover also
- Pietersen in doubt for the 3rd tests, James Taylor likely replacement.
- Watson & Rogers won't travel to Hove for the tour match against Sussex, will instead remain in London to work on technical issues.

 

[Captain Kickass]

Gather round the campfire lads .... Uncle CK has a story.

Back when 'CK' was an 10-year old tacker emulating classic catches in the backyard, Aussies were delicately placed on the world ranking, and we were on the brink of emerging into world superpowers. The key to it all, was the players they chose. It wasn't just their on-field talents. 'Mentality' went along way towards selection.

Allan Border - Hard as nails. Sick to the back teeth of losing.
Dean Jones - Brash, "dont-giva-fugg" mentality with the bat. 110% in the field.
David Boon - "F*ck you, I'm staying at the crease all day" mentality. 110% with the bat.
Craig McDermott - Pathological hate for batsmen. 110% with the ball.
Merv Hughes - Pathological hate for opposition. 110% with the ball
Steve Waugh - Tenacious as a pit-bull with a rope between his jaws as a junior, complete with a bag of tricks. 110% all game, every game.
Ian Healy - Fitness fanatic. Mentally agile gamesman. A thinker. A planner. A nuisance. 110% all game, every game.

These players were the basis of our future dominance.
We saw some 15+years of excellence and execution as a result.

Mark Taylor, Mark Waugh, Matt Hayden, Justin Langer, Adam Gilchrist, Shane Warne, Glenn McGrath, Ricky Ponting, Darren Lehmann, etc, etc ... all cut from the same template. Hard-nosed gamers who knew how to win, knew how to bunker down and defend, knew how to smell blood and attack.

You look around at the line-up we got, and there simply isn't enough of the right 'mentality'. Just like 20+ years ago when we were battlers on the world stage, it's the starting blocks for a future generation of competitive types.

Find me a 6 batters who walk out with a "f*ck you I'm gonna be here all day" frame-of-mind, and "value" their wicket ... There's none in our upper-order at the moment. Maybe Clarkey ? The rest are more "let's see how we go".

Find me bowlers who have a pathological hate for their opposition ... Siddle fits the bill. Ball #200 is coming down with the same venom as ball #2. He treats every single batter as some d*ckhead who's in his way. (Side-note : Siddle reminds me of an old team-mate at indoor. He once took 4 wickets off 4 balls at the end of a pairing, and upon clean bowling the batter for the 4th wicket on the last ball of the pair, he told both batters " ... (*points*) You can f*ck off, and (*points*) YOU can f*ck off as well !")

Starc and Johnson are likely types but need an extra gear when the going gets tough. Bird looks the goods, but hasn't been asked to get cranky. Patto and Watto are brittle boned batsmen-come-bowlers and need proper conditioning via repetition.

Spinners are the icing on the cake of a good attack. Try as we might to replace Warne, types like him are once-in-50 year occurrences. Stop looking for game-breakers. We need tradesmen.

 

[Stoofy]

Interesting story but I thought you were Uncle Arthur.

Anyway my favourite batsmen was Adam Gilchrist. The bowlers were scared of him & he would capitalise most times.

The only current players that would get into those old sides would be M Clarke, P Siddle & recently retired M Hussey. Agar might fit in the future.

 

[Horse]

I would be very surprised if Agar is retained in the next match.

It was a terrible decision by the selectors to blood him in this series, he simply isn't ready. IMO there's very little difference between what he tosses up and what a club 1st grader would, which funnily enough - is the level Agar was playing 12 months ago.

 

[pillow]

Warner hit 193 vs the saffas A side last night, Maxwell 103*