Russia vs Ukraine

Tassie Devil

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Dognacious said:
Despite all the noise about churches, jews, and the rest the undesputable fact is Ukraine has been a sovereign state for 30 years and has the right to fight off invaders

Also keep in mind this isnt the first ex ussr country Russia has gone after. Putins intention is to reunite the ussr and be a hero in russia for doing it. Its that simple.
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Spot. On.
 
The DoggFather

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Hacky McAxe said:
Let's face it. This was always going to devolve into the "Jews run the world" conspiracies.
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Jews don't run shit. Luciferians run the show.

Take away our own personal beliefs or lack thereof, the only religion that matters is the religion of the elite that run and own the world, whether you believe it or not.

If people research Luciferianism, they would clearly see the who/what/why of the world's events/issues.
 
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Dognacious

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It is actually impossible for Putin to win this war. His best case scenario is he completely annexes Ukraine if they do surrender (which i dont see happening). If he managed that, it would not be recognised by most of the world, and sanctions from everywhere would remain. The longer he holds Ukraine the poorer Russia would become. So annexing Ukraine would actually hurt Russia more. There is no scenario i can see where Putin "wins"
 
Tassie Devil

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Dognacious said:
It is actually impossible for Putin to win this war. His best case scenario is he completely annexes Ukraine if they do surrender (which i dont see happening). If he managed that, it would not be recognised by most of the world, and sanctions from everywhere would remain. The longer he holds Ukraine the poorer Russia would become. So annexing Ukraine would actually hurt Russia more. There is no scenario i can see where Putin "wins"
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I think this is a very fair summation tbh.

Let's say he completely annexes Ukraine or even that land bridge that they've got now. How would they hold it? At what cost?

You speak about the sanctions, which is a really good point as I don't see the Western world changing too much in regard to that, especially with European countries moving away from their dependance on Russia for gas. So, financially I don't know how they'd recover or continue tbh?

But, there's also the military side of things. At present, they're 'holding' that land bridge but at what cost? They're pumping in how many mobilised soldiers just to keep the line and are also getting attacked well within their own 'Russian controlled' territory by partisans or HIMARS. How can they continue to hold that? Especially when Ukraine won't stop.

The forces it'll take in the future to maintain this hold on Ukraine are astronomical. How will they be able to do it?

Of course, Ukraine relies heavily on international support so if that wanes they may have a greater ability to strike back at Ukraine. The longer this goes on, potentially the less the world will help them?

OK. Quite possible. But, Ukraine will never stop. There's no way. So, they'll need to keep a force there forever to stop attacks etc. so I just don't know how that's positive for them? No where in the currently control annexed region is Putin safe. No where.

So, I agree tbh. I don't see any scenario where Putin "wins". He tried to huff and puff but now ...
 
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Dognacious

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Tassie Devil said:
I think this is a very fair summation tbh.

Let's say he completely annexes Ukraine or even that land bridge that they've got now. How would they hold it? At what cost?

You speak about the sanctions, which is a really good point as I don't see the Western world changing too much in regard to that, especially with European countries moving away from their dependance on Russia for gas. So, financially I don't know how they'd recover or continue tbh?

But, there's also the military side of things. At present, they're 'holding' that land bridge but at what cost? They're pumping in how many mobilised soldiers just to keep the line and are also getting attacked well within their own 'Russian controlled' territory by partisans or HIMARS. How can they continue to hold that? Especially when Ukraine won't stop.

The forces it'll take in the future to maintain this hold on Ukraine are astronomical. How will they be able to do it?

Of course, Ukraine relies heavily on international support so if that wanes they may have a greater ability to strike back at Ukraine. The longer this goes on, potentially the less the world will help them?

OK. Quite possible. But, Ukraine will never stop. There's no way. So, they'll need to keep a force there forever to stop attacks etc. so I just don't know how that's positive for them? No where in the currently control annexed region is Putin safe. No where.

So, I agree tbh. I don't see any scenario where Putin "wins". He tried to huff and puff but now ...
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Thing is it wouldnt matter how putin annexes Ukraine, he wont win. That includes if it comes about due to the West reducing support with arms etc. I dont see the West relaxing the sanctions or recognising any annexation in any scenariio
 
Tassie Devil

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Dognacious said:
Thing is it wouldnt matter how putin annexes Ukraine, he wont win. That includes if it comes about due to the West reducing support with arms etc. I dont see the West relaxing the sanctions or recognising any annexation in any scenariio
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Yep. Spot on
 
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Aussie Cossack is trying to get refuge in the Russian embassy.....could that start a massive blue between OZ and Russia ?


He brings this stuff on himself I reckon. You dont shove a camera in somebodys mug and film.
 
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Never knew why some are calling Ukraine Nazis, just watched a docco on Ukraine, never knew they were Nazi bitches and had their own Nazis (OUN).

Also never knew they would jump from side to side (Nazis v USSR).

Only thing that didn't shock me was Murika/CIA having their hsnd in it.
 
Tassie Devil

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Dognacious said:
Russia are shelling civilians and killing them on xmas eve. How fucked up some countries are make u feel even happier to be Australian
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Some on here would like to tell us tho that Russia doesn't aim at citizens ...

Absolutely fucked up that this is happening. Yes, it's happening in other countries also but this doesn't make what's happening in Ukraine any better or worse
 
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And some on here chose Xmas day to take potshots. Nice and true to form.

I could spend the next few paragraphs explaining why Russia, which apparently is running out of weapons according to some of the resident experts, would not waste weapons on a supermarket. Especially Grads.

But more curious when, back in May when Kherson was under Russian control, Ukraine put a ballistic missile (a Tochka-U - roughly 10x bigger than a grad) into the Hola Prystan residential area and no one here said bloop? Xmas? Doesn't matter who you kill, is it the time of the year thats important?

But I'll give you a bigger question.

Why, when Kherson is on the front line, didn't Ukraine evacuate all the civilians when they had the chance? Would have been simple enough. Raises some interesting questions - most countries evacuate civilians from the front line - except Ukraine apparently.

Anyways - happy holidays to all.
 
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Doogie said:
And some on here chose Xmas day to take potshots. Nice and true to form.

I could spend the next few paragraphs explaining why Russia, which apparently is running out of weapons according to some of the resident experts, would not waste weapons on a supermarket. Especially Grads.

But more curious when, back in May when Kherson was under Russian control, Ukraine put a ballistic missile (a Tochka-U - roughly 10x bigger than a grad) into the Hola Prystan residential area and no one here said bloop? Xmas? Doesn't matter who you kill, is it the time of the year thats important?

But I'll give you a bigger question.

Why, when Kherson is on the front line, didn't Ukraine evacuate all the civilians when they had the chance? Would have been simple enough. Raises some interesting questions - most countries evacuate civilians from the front line - except Ukraine apparently.

Anyways - happy holidays to all.
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Some ppl have nowhere to go or means to get there. Millions have left the country though.

None of that excuses russia. Its 100% their fault and the war would end immediately if they went home. Ukraine has the right to be its own nation just like we do. It has been for near 30 years. For me the rest is noise and i find no fault with how ukraine achieve freedom from the terrorists
 
Doogie

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Dognacious said:
Some ppl have nowhere to go or means to get there. Millions have left the country though.

None of that excuses russia. Its 100% their fault and the war would end immediately if they went home. Ukraine has the right to be its own nation just like we do. It has been for near 30 years. For me the rest is noise and i find no fault with how ukraine achieve freedom from the terrorists
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So Ukraine can fire ballistic missiles into residential areas in held territories, full of Ukrainians I would assume but Russia cannot?

And weren't we playing this same game with Kyiv a few months ago, Russians firing on Ukrainian civilians per the Ukraine govt. Until the US said it was missiles downed by Ukraine Anti missile tech and the anti missile tech itself. Or the Ukraine's assertation that Russian attacked NATO, until it turned out it was a Ukrainian missile? Its groundhog day.

Kherson - population 280k pre war. Before the Russians turned up - say half left. 140k. According to Russia, they evacuated 115k in 10 days prior to leaving Kherson. That leaves fck all left. And they couldn't evacuate them but the Ukrainian president had time to do a tour of Kherson? Sure.

Ukraine has every right to freedom. Ukraine has every right to use every weapon at its disposal. And Ukraine has every right to play propaganda at every turn to maintain western public opinion. And its working. See above.

I'm out - off to go do some Xmas drinking.
 
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