Message to Pay and Tolman

[steeliz]

I anticipate we're going to have a very disgruntled player in tolman.

He won't be loved by pay the way des loved him.

He's in serious chance of losing his starting position to both klemmer and woods

Talau and fualalo are already showing they're more effective than tolman

And I just don't see tolman having the tools to up his game. It's too late for that, he's late 20s and he's not blessed with the size of klemmer and woods. Tolman should have been adding explosive power to his game years ago, it's way too late for him to do that now.

After Eastwood, Tolman should be the first forward to be sent packing. At least with Eastwood you know the potential is there to provide something different under the right coach

And lol at lichaa being blamed for tolman getting in the way consistently

I think you may be wrong there. Pay played with Simon Gillies who had a very similar role to the natural game that Tolman has.

If anything, Pay (hopefully) would understand how to use a player with Tolmans abilities properly and not the way Des has been using him.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Everytime Tolman did get the ball all the players just carried on like nothing out of the ordinary happened, no sign of frustration, ever. Must have been a coaching tactic.

Last season belmore vs cowboys. Tolman did a great job of getting in the way multiple times and our players showed frustration but not too much, they'd be chastised by des for taking on the teachers pet

 

[CaptainJackson]

I think you may be wrong there. Pay played with Simon Gillies who had a very similar role to the natural game that Tolman has.

If anything, Pay (hopefully) would understand how to use a player with Tolmans abilities properly and not the way Des has been using him.

Your comparing the 90s to today.

Is pay also going to bring out the same tactics as the 90s too?

 

[albatross]

Ive said this over and over on here tolman is perfect to come off the bench after klem and woods have destroyed the opposition and just tackle his heart out then put the others back on

Because Tolman is the idiot executing that stupid play time and time again

And went looking for it on a far to regular basis

I'm sending him the message to dink it in his thick skull

I hope that answers your question

You have anything productive to add?

When he wasn't making 2 metres on the fourth, he was loitering in the ruck and disrupting the dummy half. It happened over and over. That's not Des, it's just lazy. Honest toiler but better suited to NSW cup.

 

[steeliz]

Your comparing the 90s to today.

Is pay also going to bring out the same tactics as the 90s too?

No I am talking about the balance of a 1st grade pack. That much hasn't changed.

 

[steeliz]

Last season belmore vs cowboys. Tolman did a great job of getting in the way multiple times and our players showed frustration but not too much, they'd be chastised by des for taking on the teachers pet

That is just 1 game out of 6 yrs of Des.

 

[bcmf]

He has no footy iq. Yes Des asks him to take the 4th hit up but do you really need to be involved in fucking everything? You're not Thurston.

On the same note, Des probably had this fucking system, restricting everyone.

Just glad this era is over. It is just a fuck up and a waste of time.

 

[Phalangist]

I've often wondered if the reason Tolman was taking those hitups late in the tackle count is because he's been the closest runner to Lichaa or not. While Mbye was in the hooking role he had more inclination to pass to a half than a forward late in the count which makes me wonder how much of it was game plan and how much of it was that our primary hooker has questionable decision making skills. Running is instinctive and Lichaa is ok with that when he decides to make the effort. Passing requires some thinking and timing which I think might be the achilles heel of Lichaa. I'll wait and see if Lichaa can play well when he's not desperate for a contract (if we re-sign him). I guess the question remains to be answered still. And given that we've not yet confirmed that we've retained him it might not get answered at our club.

I have no issue with Pay giving Lichaa another chance. But it's make or break for him. He can't run the ball with every set so at times he's going to need to distribute the ball and in my opinion he'll need to do a better job of it than he has for the last few years. For a long time I used to think Buderas was over-rated as a hooker but in reality and with some hindisght I have watched some of his games since maturing and noticed that his best asset was that he allowed those around him to play hard by being able to give them well timed passes. That seems like a relatively simple ability, but some hookers can and some can't. Ennis had that ability too although with us his DH running wasn't as frequent and he didn't show much inclination to kick in general play until the last couple of months playing for us. People thought he was crap as a result, but our forward pack stil looked good while he was here and haven't looked that good playing alongside Lichaa.

I don't mean to death ride Lichaa for no reason. I was one of the last to start criticizing him on here. His defense is pretty solid and as he showed in the last few rounds he can do good things with his running game. But teams will learn to read that he's going to run the ball if he does it frequently and in all likelyhood he'll get smashed a bit if he does it too often next year so he'll need to do some ball distribution without running so I hope that's something he's able to improve a lot.

I personally think Buderus was over rated

 

[tonee]

Bit much tbh

 

[Bbyss]

I think Tolman has good offloads in him, if Dean Pay let's him offload and runs straight and hard, he will be right player to keep.

 

[vegny]

Ive said this over and over on here tolman is perfect to come off the bench after klem and woods have destroyed the opposition and just tackle his heart out then put the others back on

So would most forwards coming in after klem and woods i guess.
Tolmans main strength is his ability to play long minutes. Benching him = not using his value. Might as well put in someone that can rip into a tiring defence to follow klem and woods. Thats my opinion.

 

[CaptainJackson]

No I am talking about the balance of a 1st grade pack. That much hasn't changed.

It hasn't but my point was in regards to Tolman, the game has passed him by and it's his own fault for not working on his own strength/power.

He had smoke blown up his arse by des, thinking he was one of the best props in the game when he's far from it.

Glasby is another worker, but he doesn't start for Melbourne does he? he comes off the bench and does a job.

I'm hoping we never ever see a Hasler method interchange ever again at our club. It was absolute crap and one of the main reasons teams ran over the top of us.

Tolman will be frustrated, he won't be 1st choice and he won't get the minutes he used to get. It would have to take a massive change in game play for people to reverse their decision about Tolman, I've been bagging him since 2012/13 even with our "successful" periods.

 

[vegny]

May be tolman can play lock? Can play long minute, can make lots of tackles and maybe can make more meters following klemmer and woods.

 

[Wahesh]

My question is when Tolman scored against the Dragons rd 26, was he doing what Lichaa did and that is....... ignoring Des?

 

[CaptainJackson]

May be tolman can play lock? Can play long minute, can make lots of tackles and maybe can make more meters following klemmer and woods.

I'd prefer

13. Jackson
12. Elliot
11. RFM

And then we've still yet to see if Eastwood will be re-invigorated with Pay as coach.

Simply put Tolman no longer has a spot in our forward pack, both Tualau and Fualalo are already more impressive than Tolman

 

[Chris Harding]

Have a look at how Tolman played in our last three matches. He even backed up a runaway try. Given a different attacking style, we may find Tolman one of our best players.

 

[Fear.The.Roo]

May be tolman can play lock? Can play long minute, can make lots of tackles and maybe can make more meters following klemmer and woods.

I thought that also

These days locks don't really ball play so yeah
I could see him as a lock

I'd rather him play lock than klemmer

 

[Fear.The.Roo]

Have a look at how Tolman played in our last three matches. He even backed up a runaway try. Given a different attacking style, we may find Tolman one of our best players.

I hope so

I like the guy
I just hated what I singled out in this thread

 

[steeliz]

It hasn't but my point was in regards to Tolman, the game has passed him by and it's his own fault for not working on his own strength/power.

He had smoke blown up his arse by des, thinking he was one of the best props in the game when he's far from it.

Glasby is another worker, but he doesn't start for Melbourne does he? he comes off the bench and does a job.

I'm hoping we never ever see a Hasler method interchange ever again at our club. It was absolute crap and one of the main reasons teams ran over the top of us.

Tolman will be frustrated, he won't be 1st choice and he won't get the minutes he used to get. It would have to take a massive change in game play for people to reverse their decision about Tolman, I've been bagging him since 2012/13 even with our "successful" periods.

If you don't have workers who does the tackling? Let your weapons do all the tackles then who will do the running?

Your right about Glasby, he is another worker...........Impressive State of Origin debut too. And although he doesn't start have you seen his minutes?

Tacklers like Tolman will only see the game pass them by when it becomes touch footy.

As for the Hasler interchange system and tactics, I completely agree. That is the reason some of our players (Tolman, Lichha among then) have the reputation they now do. We all saw what they could do in the last 3 weeks of the comp when they went out and played footy instead of the 'Hasler Method'

Like I said before hopefully Pay will use them properly.

 

[Fear.The.Roo]

I personally think Buderus was over rated

I'm meeting him on Wednesday
I don't want to give too much away on the public forum
But I'll be at his home on Wednesday this week