It's in the fundamentals..

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bulldogsmyte

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Hi fellow suffering doggies fans

I became a doggies supporter as a kid since the mid 70's when I saw what I still consider the best player I've ever seen (both statistically and his ability to win games single handed).

It's been well documented by virtually everyone here why our team is so crap (Des) but I just want to give my two cents worth to the underlying issues in our team. It's a long spiel but bear with me.

Picture the following true scenario. There are two guys in a park throwing a football around. One is a 6 foot tall 90kg Samoan lookalike who bench pressed 350 pounds in high school, has 18 inch arms, six pack, does the human flag, beats the crap out of black belts in sparring sessions and run 40 metres in just over 4 seconds in jeans and a long sleeve shirt. In other words a genuine physical freak. The other is a 70kg 5 foot 7 chinaman that you walk by and wouldn't notice.

One guy is throwing the ball one handed grid iron style 30 to 40+ metres. The other can barely throw it past 20m one or two handed. I'm the guy throwing spiral balls 40m and I'm the 5 foot 7 chinaman. The other guy is my best friend.

I can throw the ball twice the distance of my friend because of TECHNIQUE not because of strength. I have a throwing arm from my background in tennis and throwing footballs and brandings in high school lunchtime. My friend is 10 times the athlete I am. His arm is twice the size of mine. At uni all the lebs and gym junkies would challenge him in the cafeteria to arm wrestles and he beats them all in seconds. But he can't throw tennis balls or footballs. He does not have the technique.

"Future Immortal" Cameron Smith is no physical specimen but he throws perfect spiral passes because of technique. Roger Federer is nowhere near the physical specimen of Rafa, yet won 17 majors with a crappy 20 year old Wilson racquet from the Sampras era because of his superior technique. Thank God he finally upgraded to a modern racquet and won more majors.

Our team is crap because it lacks fundamentals. Our team lacks technique in every critical facet of the game. There is NO ONE in our team that can do just ONE of the following consistently:

1) Throw a quick spiral ball over 5m, 10m, 20m and 30m+ and hit a teammate's chest in front.
Our passes are slow, shitty end on end and usually go BEHIND a teammate
2) Under pressure quickly count the number of players in BOTH teams on either side of the ruck and identify an overlap
3) The ability to read two formations and know the best option of the following: run, pass or kick, pass shallow/deep, pass short/long, kick short/long
4) Beat their opposition player with foot speed/foot work/correct angle.
5) Make the right decision under pressure
6) Co-ordinate the attack to have multiple runners in unison to put the opposition under pressure rather than repeat the predictable crappy ineffective block plays
7) Kick accurately. Mybe has no feel for the ball when he kicks. He kicks the ball 20 m dead when we're in the red zone.

Our team is not fit. We have the biggest forward pack in the NRL because they are OVERWEIGHT and not because of bulging muscles.

Because of the above our team can never consistently create overlaps, break the line or finish off breaks. Whenever the dogs do make a break they rarely score because they can't count, pass, kick or make the right decision.

How many times has our team made a break and on the next play with an obvious overlap Mybe or Lichaa throws the ball to the wrong side or wrong player?

It doesn't matter how hard our players try. It's not about gym strength, or "the grind", or arm wrestle or any of the shit that Des talks about. Our team does not have the fundamentals to compete. Our team has no intelligence.

It's like attempting to do 4 Unit Maths when you can't do 2U Vege Maths. You can't do 4U Maths unless you can master 3U Maths. Can't do 3U Maths unless you can master 2U Maths. Can't do 2U Maths unless you can do algebra, trig, calculus etc. Can't do any of that unless you can count.

Given the crap players we still have signed up next year this would be my solution.
First teach all spine and key players the fundamentals and proper technique of those critical skills. Team list:

1 Mybe. He can't read the game or kick properly but he is the fastest player we have and has to be in the spine given he's on 750k. Needs to learn how to catch bombs and position himself defensively.
2 Montaya but he needs intensive sprint training.
3 Jmoz. Has to lose fat and gain muscle mass. If he's cut with muscle at 94kg he'll be a lot quicker.
4 The quickest young guy from the lower grades and upskill his defence reading and tackling over the off season if we don’t have a decent quick recruit.
5 Bmoz. Ditto Jmoz
6 Frawley to undergo serious skills training or some young new guy
7 Foran vice captain
8 Woods if he's coming
9 the new guy from Cronulla
10 Klemmer
11 Jackson captain
12 RFM

Bench:
14 Graham without the captaincy if he's still around. I posted in early 2014 that he should not be captain.
15 Hoppa as a reserve hooker/emergency half/ball playing forward. He's too slow as an outside back but he has a decent pass and at 500k he has to be in the spine somewhere. Maybe put him at 6 if Frawley is still crap. Serious training during off season to be a decent spine player other than fullback. From what I've seen he reads the game better than Mbye which isn't saying much.
16 Danny Fualalo
17 Tolman if he's still around or one of the big young boppas.

All players except Klemmer, Jackson and RFM need to lose considerable kilos.

Unfortunately if Des is still coach then appoint a rookie coach (Dean Pay or whoever) as "coaching director" as a title. This sends a public message where Des belongs. If Des can't stand the public humiliation and resigns then there is no payout. If he cops it on the chin and meets whatever performance targets in his contract then 2018/19 will be a coaching apprenticeship for the "coaching director" to take over as head coach in 2020. If Des is still crap then the board will need to make a decision but at least the new head coach has first hand knowledge of the crap in the club and which players are not putting in upfront.
 

diddly

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The lack of skills development, or emphasis on, has been apparent in the junior grades for the last three or four years. From HM to SgBall 20s - way behind what other clubs produce
 

EXPLORER

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Hi fellow suffering doggies fans

I became a doggies supporter as a kid since the mid 70's when I saw what I still consider the best player I've ever seen (both statistically and his ability to win games single handed).

It's been well documented by virtually everyone here why our team is so crap (Des) but I just want to give my two cents worth to the underlying issues in our team. It's a long spiel but bear with me.

Picture the following true scenario. There are two guys in a park throwing a football around. One is a 6 foot tall 90kg Samoan lookalike who bench pressed 350 pounds in high school, has 18 inch arms, six pack, does the human flag, beats the crap out of black belts in sparring sessions and run 40 metres in just over 4 seconds in jeans and a long sleeve shirt. In other words a genuine physical freak. The other is a 70kg 5 foot 7 chinaman that you walk by and wouldn't notice.

One guy is throwing the ball one handed grid iron style 30 to 40+ metres. The other can barely throw it past 20m one or two handed. I'm the guy throwing spiral balls 40m and I'm the 5 foot 7 chinaman. The other guy is my best friend.

I can throw the ball twice the distance of my friend because of TECHNIQUE not because of strength. I have a throwing arm from my background in tennis and throwing footballs and brandings in high school lunchtime. My friend is 10 times the athlete I am. His arm is twice the size of mine. At uni all the lebs and gym junkies would challenge him in the cafeteria to arm wrestles and he beats them all in seconds. But he can't throw tennis balls or footballs. He does not have the technique.

"Future Immortal" Cameron Smith is no physical specimen but he throws perfect spiral passes because of technique. Roger Federer is nowhere near the physical specimen of Rafa, yet won 17 majors with a crappy 20 year old Wilson racquet from the Sampras era because of his superior technique. Thank God he finally upgraded to a modern racquet and won more majors.

Our team is crap because it lacks fundamentals. Our team lacks technique in every critical facet of the game. There is NO ONE in our team that can do just ONE of the following consistently:

1) Throw a quick spiral ball over 5m, 10m, 20m and 30m+ and hit a teammate's chest in front.
Our passes are slow, shitty end on end and usually go BEHIND a teammate
2) Under pressure quickly count the number of players in BOTH teams on either side of the ruck and identify an overlap
3) The ability to read two formations and know the best option of the following: run, pass or kick, pass shallow/deep, pass short/long, kick short/long
4) Beat their opposition player with foot speed/foot work/correct angle.
5) Make the right decision under pressure
6) Co-ordinate the attack to have multiple runners in unison to put the opposition under pressure rather than repeat the predictable crappy ineffective block plays
7) Kick accurately. Mybe has no feel for the ball when he kicks. He kicks the ball 20 m dead when we're in the red zone.

Our team is not fit. We have the biggest forward pack in the NRL because they are OVERWEIGHT and not because of bulging muscles.

Because of the above our team can never consistently create overlaps, break the line or finish off breaks. Whenever the dogs do make a break they rarely score because they can't count, pass, kick or make the right decision.

How many times has our team made a break and on the next play with an obvious overlap Mybe or Lichaa throws the ball to the wrong side or wrong player?

It doesn't matter how hard our players try. It's not about gym strength, or "the grind", or arm wrestle or any of the shit that Des talks about. Our team does not have the fundamentals to compete. Our team has no intelligence.

It's like attempting to do 4 Unit Maths when you can't do 2U Vege Maths. You can't do 4U Maths unless you can master 3U Maths. Can't do 3U Maths unless you can master 2U Maths. Can't do 2U Maths unless you can do algebra, trig, calculus etc. Can't do any of that unless you can count.

Given the crap players we still have signed up next year this would be my solution.
First teach all spine and key players the fundamentals and proper technique of those critical skills. Team list:

1 Mybe. He can't read the game or kick properly but he is the fastest player we have and has to be in the spine given he's on 750k. Needs to learn how to catch bombs and position himself defensively.
2 Montaya but he needs intensive sprint training.
3 Jmoz. Has to lose fat and gain muscle mass. If he's cut with muscle at 94kg he'll be a lot quicker.
4 The quickest young guy from the lower grades and upskill his defence reading and tackling over the off season if we don’t have a decent quick recruit.
5 Bmoz. Ditto Jmoz
6 Frawley to undergo serious skills training or some young new guy
7 Foran vice captain
8 Woods if he's coming
9 the new guy from Cronulla
10 Klemmer
11 Jackson captain
12 RFM

Bench:
14 Graham without the captaincy if he's still around. I posted in early 2014 that he should not be captain.
15 Hoppa as a reserve hooker/emergency half/ball playing forward. He's too slow as an outside back but he has a decent pass and at 500k he has to be in the spine somewhere. Maybe put him at 6 if Frawley is still crap. Serious training during off season to be a decent spine player other than fullback. From what I've seen he reads the game better than Mbye which isn't saying much.
16 Danny Fualalo
17 Tolman if he's still around or one of the big young boppas.

All players except Klemmer, Jackson and RFM need to lose considerable kilos.

Unfortunately if Des is still coach then appoint a rookie coach (Dean Pay or whoever) as "coaching director" as a title. This sends a public message where Des belongs. If Des can't stand the public humiliation and resigns then there is no payout. If he cops it on the chin and meets whatever performance targets in his contract then 2018/19 will be a coaching apprenticeship for the "coaching director" to take over as head coach in 2020. If Des is still crap then the board will need to make a decision but at least the new head coach has first hand knowledge of the crap in the club and which players are not putting in upfront.
No way I can be bothered reading all that
I got as far as technique and thumbed it up
 

khan

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Every rugby league player is blessed with "something" that has brought em to where they are currently, if a coach does not identify "it" or don't allow the player to play to their strength and, "control" every single thing about that players ability then you simply don't have what this player "brings" so in other words you have a team full of "lost" individuals that are playing a game that they've grown up playing all their lives, as a team, now alllll "alone".

Onya supercoach des.
 

Chris Harding

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Hi fellow suffering doggies fans

I became a doggies supporter as a kid since the mid 70's when I saw what I still consider the best player I've ever seen (both statistically and his ability to win games single handed).

It's been well documented by virtually everyone here why our team is so crap (Des) but I just want to give my two cents worth to the underlying issues in our team. It's a long spiel but bear with me.

Picture the following true scenario. There are two guys in a park throwing a football around. One is a 6 foot tall 90kg Samoan lookalike who bench pressed 350 pounds in high school, has 18 inch arms, six pack, does the human flag, beats the crap out of black belts in sparring sessions and run 40 metres in just over 4 seconds in jeans and a long sleeve shirt. In other words a genuine physical freak. The other is a 70kg 5 foot 7 chinaman that you walk by and wouldn't notice.

One guy is throwing the ball one handed grid iron style 30 to 40+ metres. The other can barely throw it past 20m one or two handed. I'm the guy throwing spiral balls 40m and I'm the 5 foot 7 chinaman. The other guy is my best friend.

I can throw the ball twice the distance of my friend because of TECHNIQUE not because of strength. I have a throwing arm from my background in tennis and throwing footballs and brandings in high school lunchtime. My friend is 10 times the athlete I am. His arm is twice the size of mine. At uni all the lebs and gym junkies would challenge him in the cafeteria to arm wrestles and he beats them all in seconds. But he can't throw tennis balls or footballs. He does not have the technique.

"Future Immortal" Cameron Smith is no physical specimen but he throws perfect spiral passes because of technique. Roger Federer is nowhere near the physical specimen of Rafa, yet won 17 majors with a crappy 20 year old Wilson racquet from the Sampras era because of his superior technique. Thank God he finally upgraded to a modern racquet and won more majors.

Our team is crap because it lacks fundamentals. Our team lacks technique in every critical facet of the game. There is NO ONE in our team that can do just ONE of the following consistently:

1) Throw a quick spiral ball over 5m, 10m, 20m and 30m+ and hit a teammate's chest in front.
Our passes are slow, shitty end on end and usually go BEHIND a teammate
2) Under pressure quickly count the number of players in BOTH teams on either side of the ruck and identify an overlap
3) The ability to read two formations and know the best option of the following: run, pass or kick, pass shallow/deep, pass short/long, kick short/long
4) Beat their opposition player with foot speed/foot work/correct angle.
5) Make the right decision under pressure
6) Co-ordinate the attack to have multiple runners in unison to put the opposition under pressure rather than repeat the predictable crappy ineffective block plays
7) Kick accurately. Mybe has no feel for the ball when he kicks. He kicks the ball 20 m dead when we're in the red zone.

Our team is not fit. We have the biggest forward pack in the NRL because they are OVERWEIGHT and not because of bulging muscles.

Because of the above our team can never consistently create overlaps, break the line or finish off breaks. Whenever the dogs do make a break they rarely score because they can't count, pass, kick or make the right decision.

How many times has our team made a break and on the next play with an obvious overlap Mybe or Lichaa throws the ball to the wrong side or wrong player?

It doesn't matter how hard our players try. It's not about gym strength, or "the grind", or arm wrestle or any of the shit that Des talks about. Our team does not have the fundamentals to compete. Our team has no intelligence.

It's like attempting to do 4 Unit Maths when you can't do 2U Vege Maths. You can't do 4U Maths unless you can master 3U Maths. Can't do 3U Maths unless you can master 2U Maths. Can't do 2U Maths unless you can do algebra, trig, calculus etc. Can't do any of that unless you can count.

Given the crap players we still have signed up next year this would be my solution.
First teach all spine and key players the fundamentals and proper technique of those critical skills. Team list:

1 Mybe. He can't read the game or kick properly but he is the fastest player we have and has to be in the spine given he's on 750k. Needs to learn how to catch bombs and position himself defensively.
2 Montaya but he needs intensive sprint training.
3 Jmoz. Has to lose fat and gain muscle mass. If he's cut with muscle at 94kg he'll be a lot quicker.
4 The quickest young guy from the lower grades and upskill his defence reading and tackling over the off season if we don’t have a decent quick recruit.
5 Bmoz. Ditto Jmoz
6 Frawley to undergo serious skills training or some young new guy
7 Foran vice captain
8 Woods if he's coming
9 the new guy from Cronulla
10 Klemmer
11 Jackson captain
12 RFM

Bench:
14 Graham without the captaincy if he's still around. I posted in early 2014 that he should not be captain.
15 Hoppa as a reserve hooker/emergency half/ball playing forward. He's too slow as an outside back but he has a decent pass and at 500k he has to be in the spine somewhere. Maybe put him at 6 if Frawley is still crap. Serious training during off season to be a decent spine player other than fullback. From what I've seen he reads the game better than Mbye which isn't saying much.
16 Danny Fualalo
17 Tolman if he's still around or one of the big young boppas.

All players except Klemmer, Jackson and RFM need to lose considerable kilos.

Unfortunately if Des is still coach then appoint a rookie coach (Dean Pay or whoever) as "coaching director" as a title. This sends a public message where Des belongs. If Des can't stand the public humiliation and resigns then there is no payout. If he cops it on the chin and meets whatever performance targets in his contract then 2018/19 will be a coaching apprenticeship for the "coaching director" to take over as head coach in 2020. If Des is still crap then the board will need to make a decision but at least the new head coach has first hand knowledge of the crap in the club and which players are not putting in upfront.
We have a Centre of Excellence and top trainers keeping our players fit. Slow play comes from allowing the opposition more than 70% possession, and consecutive sets for the first 30-40 minutes of a game. Tackling consistently, and chasing players for lengthy periods is what tires us; and it is exhaustion that put the team off its game. If the team can stop dropping balls and giving away stupid penalties, they might be able to concentrate on playing football. Confidence is the biggest thing they need right now. The techniques are there, otherwise they would not be in first grade; they have just forgotten where they left them, that's all.
 

SPEARTAKVIDREFS

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Whenever I hear Des talking, its as if hes in denial or delusional. Watching him in the change room Thursday night on tv. It didnt read as a coach instructing his captive audience, a team listening to instruction. Alot of the points you brought up are to me is simply 'Coaching'. The basics, laying the foundation. Its not rocket science, its footy. I often think "what the fuck does he do all week with this team". With each week that passes its as if this team is playing for the first time together firstly in attack but now it appears in defence. There getting worse. I honestly believe he has lost the ability to coach. Its mind boggling.
 

Novdoggie

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That is a very well structured post....I'm Glad Des is rubbing onto you
 

GDR

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Even the most skillful player can loose confidence and ability if they keep getting fed negative instructions... our halves are useless because they have never been allowed to be a play maker .. over time every halves duty has been removed from our halves because the coach wants to coach with numbers .. how is a 6 or 7 meant to gain any confidence if there told , don't kick on the last , don't stand at first receiver etc.. negativity breeds inability....
 

bulldogsmyte

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Whenever I hear Des talking, its as if hes in denial or delusional. Watching him in the change room Thursday night on tv. It didnt read as a coach instructing his captive audience, a team listening to instruction. Alot of the points you brought up are to me is simply 'Coaching'. The basics, laying the foundation. Its not rocket science, its footy. I often think "what the fuck does he do all week with this team". With each week that passes its as if this team is playing for the first time together firstly in attack but now it appears in defence. There getting worse. I honestly believe he has lost the ability to coach. Its mind boggling.
I agree with you 100%. It's not rocket science it's basic footy skills. And our team doesn't have them. I broke it down to the smallest detail in the highly unlikely event that someone influential in the club read kennel posts! It is mind boggling that our players don't have the technique to pass properly/accurately/efficiently. Andrew Johns has mentioned it many times on tv that the doggies constantly pass the ball to behind the player rather than in front of the player.
 

Magilla

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We have a Centre of Excellence and top trainers keeping our players fit. Slow play comes from allowing the opposition more than 70% possession, and consecutive sets for the first 30-40 minutes of a game. Tackling consistently, and chasing players for lengthy periods is what tires us; and it is exhaustion that put the team off its game. If the team can stop dropping balls and giving away stupid penalties, they might be able to concentrate on playing football. Confidence is the biggest thing they need right now. The techniques are there, otherwise they would not be in first grade; they have just forgotten where they left them, that's all.
Are u on drugs? What a load of dribble.
 

bulldogsmyte

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We have a Centre of Excellence and top trainers keeping our players fit. Slow play comes from allowing the opposition more than 70% possession, and consecutive sets for the first 30-40 minutes of a game. Tackling consistently, and chasing players for lengthy periods is what tires us; and it is exhaustion that put the team off its game. If the team can stop dropping balls and giving away stupid penalties, they might be able to concentrate on playing football. Confidence is the biggest thing they need right now. The techniques are there, otherwise they would not be in first grade; they have just forgotten where they left them, that's all.
You are correct on some of the points above but I don't believe many of our players are as fit as the elite players in the NRL. Jmoz has a double chin and is definitely not cut like Josh Mansour and other gun players. He is considerably fatter now compared to 2012 when he was on fire. When Jmoz took his shirt off there was plenty of flab and you can't be serious about Eastwood and Kasiano being fit.
 

bulldogsmyte

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Even the most skillful player can loose confidence and ability if they keep getting fed negative instructions... our halves are useless because they have never been allowed to be a play maker .. over time every halves duty has been removed from our halves because the coach wants to coach with numbers .. how is a 6 or 7 meant to gain any confidence if there told , don't kick on the last , don't stand at first receiver etc.. negativity breeds inability....
True but it's both poor coaching and player ability. Against Souths after scoring a try Frawley knocks on from the kick off. Another time after breaking the line the ball goes to Frawley who knocks on. As a halfback he's supposed to have superior ball handling skills compared to the average player but he makes the most basic errors. The scary thing is that Frawley is currently the best halfback in the club.
 

Stargate44

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Why Is It??? That Because A Player Is "FAST" ....
He Should Play FB...
Why Is It???
There Are Other Qualities That Make A "Great" Fullback...
After Watching Mybe In The Last 2 Games ......
Defence isn't ONE OF THEM......
 
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bulldogsmyte

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Why Is It??? That Because A Player Is "FAST" ....
He Should Play FB...
Why Is It???
There Are Other Qualities That Make A "Great" Fullback...
After Watch Mybe In The Last 2 Games ......
Defence isn't ONE OF THEM......
I'll clarify why I put Mbye as fullback. Not because he's a great fullback but because we're stuck with him and at 750k he needs to be in the spine somewhere and we can't afford to get a topline fullback with the salary cap. Hoppa doesn't have the fast twitch muscles to be an attacking fullback but Mbye does. Defence is a technique that can be taught with proper training and development. Genuine speed can't be taught as it's in the DNA.
 
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Stargate44

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I Agree In Hoppa Is NOT A FB...
Mbye Isn't Either Full Stop............
However.......... Maybe Worth A Go????......
 

XR6T

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I'll clarify why I put Mbye as fullback. Not because he's a great fullback but because we're stuck with him and at 750k he needs to be in the spine somewhere and we can't afford to get a topline fullback with the salary cap. Hoppa doesn't have the fast twitch muscles to be an attacking fullback but Mbye does. Defence is a technique that can be taught with proper training and development. Genuine speed can't be taught as it's in the DNA.



You obviously haven't seen Kasiano run when he sees Okunbor behind the opposition goal posts......




images (41).jpg
 

bulldogsmyte

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I Agree In Hoppa Is NOT A FB...
Mbye Isn't Either Full Stop............
However.......... Maybe Worth A Go????......
It's called the lesser of two evils! Mybe is a crap halfback. He coudn't organise a chook raffle or a root in a brothel.
He has decent passing technique but has no vision. Hoppa has better vision but has no turn of foot. As soon as our line is broken by the opposition they simply run around Hoppa so the only time Hoppa can defend at fullback is our goal line defence. That's a big IF he can get there in time.

The only guy in our team with genuine speed over 10m to 100m with aerobic fitness is Mybe. So FB is the only feasible position he can play and add value to the team at 750k. Given that our club stupidly resigned Hoppa at supposedly 500k he has to play somewhere and since we don't have a great hooker its the position where he can add most value to the team. He certainly has more feel for the ball when he kicks compared to Mybe.

You don't need genuine speed as a hooker - see Cameron Smith. He ain't fast physically but he's fast mentally. And from what I've seen Hoppa has lot more footy smarts and finesse than Mybe.
 

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I read 2 paragraphs only... and I can say I agree with everything the OP posted!
 

flamebouyant

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Why Is It??? That Because A Player Is "FAST" ....
He Should Play FB...
Why Is It???
There Are Other Qualities That Make A "Great" Fullback...
After Watching Mybe In The Last 2 Games ......
Defence isn't ONE OF THEM......
A fullback makes maybe 5-10 tackles a game. Sometimes none. A modern hooker is expected to make between 30 and 50 depending on how many minutes they play. So saying mbye cant tackle or defend, which i disagree with anyways, is actually irrelevant.
IIn any case, mbye has speed to burn and good footwork. He can kick, although not amazingly well, he has a bullet like pass (did you see him do freddies pass off? He broke the backboard!) And he played a lot of his junior footy at fullback for the noosa pirates. So what argument can you offer for not giving him a go??
Not only do i think he would be great in the fullback position, i also think hoppa would be better off in the centres or backrow. Win win in my opinion really.
 
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