News Is Pay having a fluffy?

[DoggyStyla]

I just don't get the hate some people have for Dean Pay. When he first started, it was "mission impossible" for him.
He had little money to use, as most of it was wasted by the previous incumbent and management. Thankfully
they are both gone.
He had a second tier team. Very few of them would make another first grade team.
With the limited money now available, he is trying to build a team that will be competitive.
We all should know it won't be a Premiership winning team.
This season hasn't been that bad. We could easily have won the Parra game except for a bad bounce of the ball. (2 points)
The Cowboys game was never going to amount to much considering the disruption caused by those two imbeciles.
I know the usual suspects will attack me, but that's OK

They same way I don’t get the love for Pay. He isn’t a FG coach and has proven that with not picking the correct players in the correct position. And don’t forget the constant changing of halves partners over the past few years. Have you forgotten the crap that went on with RFM in Pays first year of coaching? Or resigning Lichaa? What about signing Christian C from Panthers for a wing position? Trying to sign Reynolds?

I recall the Dogs had to hire someone to teach Pay how to relate to the players!

Give me a break! Worse coach in our proud history!

Let’s face it he should not, could not be our coach next season!

 

[DinkumDog]

If Pay wasn't chasing Reynolds then why wouldn't he deny it straight away? Why would he even entertain the notion?

McGuire, Mbye, Benji, Ennis and others have all confirmed that there were discussions taking place and Pay confirmed he was interested. Read between the lines TT, it's not that hard to put two and two together.

Anyway it likely won't happen... But why you want to argue what both clubs acknowledged was true and what's blatantly obvious is anyone's guess.

Because why would you tell your competitors exactly what you're thinking?
Why wouldn't you throw them off the scent and get the media to have a nibble at the same time?
I can't tell you how many discussions I've had in my career with those I have no intention of dealing with, but do so to get a read of what they might be thinking - or to confirm that what I'm thinking is the right way forward.
Don't assume it's all one way traffic and don't take Pay's comments too literally mate.
I know it's hard for you to give him any credit, but just because he seems like the friendly bloke from the country don't assume that he has no idea what he's doing.

 

[DoggyStyla]

Because why would you tell your competitors exactly what you're thinking?
Why wouldn't you throw them off the scent and get the media to have a nibble at the same time?
I can't tell you how many discussions I've had in my career with those I have no intention of dealing with, but do so to get a read of what they might be thinking - or to confirm that what I'm thinking is the right way forward.
Don't assume it's all one way traffic and don't take Pay's comments too literally mate.
I know it's hard for you to give him any credit, but just because he seems like the friendly bloke from the country don't assume that he has no idea what he's doing.

I not think anyone assumes Pay doesn’t know what he is doing, I think we know he doesn’t.

 

[DinkumDog]

My expectations weren’t high at all. I just want improvement and to look like we are genuinely building something. The first two games were more of the same.

This is what you don’t seem to get it with the CHN and Okonbur thing. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is the fact is the roster is significantly weaker now. It doesn’t matter how it happened but it’s happened.

I really don’t buy it that our club is so hamstrung by Corona yet it has little effect on others. Good clubs find ways around problems and it seems the Dogs just sit back and think time will solve all problems. The club can be in discussions about bloody Reynolds for weeks but can’t negotiate any other players....yeah right!

The Grant loan is a great piece of thinking from the Tigers. They get him for a year and a chance to be in his ear about staying the whole time. Even if he goes back they have thought outside the box about solving the hardest position in the game to fill. When have the Dogs done that lately?

How can the cap be used as a excuse for not developing players? If anything it makes it more important. Players make their debut and just stay at the same level. Can you really think of anyone that has made significant strides at the club in the last couple of years? Apart from the established players everyone else floats from CCup to NRL and different positions on the field.

What don't I get? Of course the roster is weaker - and what choice was the club given? Try to bury it and hope it didn't get out? There was zero chance of that once one of the girls shared her exploits on social media. The club had to get in front of it - especially given our history with Coffs etc - mud sticks whether you like it or not.
Focussing specifically on the roster though and not the incident - the players were suspended when the story broke - 10 March. The season was suspended 23 March - before the outcome of their punishments by the NRL was known. At the same time recruitment discussions were suspended by the NRL. The players were deregistered on 01 April. Recruitment discussions were only allowed to resume 04 May. That and the NRL still has not informed the club whether the two players need to be replaced or not. Can they even replace them in the absence of an instruction from the NRL?
Again it seems like you've automatically assumed the club has simply done nothing and buried their head in the sand with the problem - I don't buy that at all.

As for Grant - yeah, it's creative but who says it's all the Tigers doing? Melbourne needed a centre and got Momirovski - not all one way traffic.
And if it's so genius - why did they screw it up to begin with when the original deal proved Melbourne to be over the cap?
Regardless it's a good bit of thinking but hardly one that's going to win the Tigers a premiership this year - so let's not get too carried away with it.

To answer your last question - Meaney definitely improved last year (you asked for one player). I thought he was solid at fullback (not particularly creative in attack, but good in defence) and when he moved to the wing he improved each week and ended up scoring 6 tries in the run home. This year we haven't seen much of him because he didn't get any ball. It's possibly fair to say that Pay's experiment with Lewis is over (barring more injuries) and hopefully with Foran back our outside backs start seeing more ball and have a chance to create/finish some attacking plays.

Anyway mate - it's been a good debate - it's good on here when it doesn't descend into farce, so thanks for that.
We clearly don't agree on much club wise and that's fine - I'm waiting until after 30 June to see what else is announced for 2021 and hopefully in the back half of the year there is a bit more optimism on TK for what's ahead. Cheers.

 

[GA45]

It's clear as day that the club tried to work out a deal to sign Reynolds. Pay himself acknowledged it publicly several times.

Thankfully it's unlikely to eventuate but hopefully other potential recruits are of a much higher calibre.

Just because someone mentions it doesn’t mean we are signing him. I’m sure the club would have loved to have Reynolds back at minimum wage but why would the tigers do that. Too many here get their nickers in a knot over the mention of a name but the reality is the club very rarely lets anybody know who we are chasing until they are signed.
The kennel is still in uproar about Reynolds being discussed but in reality we just signed Wakeham for another couple of seasons. It’s not all doom and gloom guys

 

[DoggyStyla]

Just because someone mentions it doesn’t mean we are signing him. I’m sure the club would have loved to have Reynolds back at minimum wage but why would the tigers do that. Too many here get their nickers in a knot over the mention of a name but the reality is the club very rarely lets anybody know who we are chasing until they are signed.
The kennel is still in uproar about Reynolds being discussed but in reality we just signed Wakeham for another couple of seasons. It’s not all doom and gloom guys

The only time minimum wage was mentioned was in the Kennel. Pay was talking $400k, was way way too much for another injury prone half!

 

[The DoggFather]

Having a fluffy: having little or no intellectual weight; superficial or frivolous: fluffy thinking.

I guess it leads down the road to centrelink

Then yes, he is having a fluffy lol

 

[DinkumDog]

The only time minimum wage was mentioned was in the Kennel. Pay was talking $400k, was way way too much for another injury prone half!

Can you provide your source for this? I've never seen Pay mention money in regard to Reynolds - and it's not even his job to talk let alone negotiate player payments.

 

[DoggyStyla]

Can you provide your source for this? I've never seen Pay mention money in regard to Reynolds - and it's not even his job to talk let alone negotiate player payments.

Bahahahaha was all over the news and papers mate! Try google!

 

[Spoonman84]

What don't I get? Of course the roster is weaker - and what choice was the club given? Try to bury it and hope it didn't get out? There was zero chance of that once one of the girls shared her exploits on social media. The club had to get in front of it - especially given our history with Coffs etc - mud sticks whether you like it or not.
Focussing specifically on the roster though and not the incident - the players were suspended when the story broke - 10 March. The season was suspended 23 March - before the outcome of their punishments by the NRL was known. At the same time recruitment discussions were suspended by the NRL. The players were deregistered on 01 April. Recruitment discussions were only allowed to resume 04 May. That and the NRL still has not informed the club whether the two players need to be replaced or not. Can they even replace them in the absence of an instruction from the NRL?
Again it seems like you've automatically assumed the club has simply done nothing and buried their head in the sand with the problem - I don't buy that at all.

As for Grant - yeah, it's creative but who says it's all the Tigers doing? Melbourne needed a centre and got Momirovski - not all one way traffic.
And if it's so genius - why did they screw it up to begin with when the original deal proved Melbourne to be over the cap?
Regardless it's a good bit of thinking but hardly one that's going to win the Tigers a premiership this year - so let's not get too carried away with it.

To answer your last question - Meaney definitely improved last year (you asked for one player). I thought he was solid at fullback (not particularly creative in attack, but good in defence) and when he moved to the wing he improved each week and ended up scoring 6 tries in the run home. This year we haven't seen much of him because he didn't get any ball. It's possibly fair to say that Pay's experiment with Lewis is over (barring more injuries) and hopefully with Foran back our outside backs start seeing more ball and have a chance to create/finish some attacking plays.

Anyway mate - it's been a good debate - it's good on here when it doesn't descend into farce, so thanks for that.
We clearly don't agree on much club wise and that's fine - I'm waiting until after 30 June to see what else is announced for 2021 and hopefully in the back half of the year there is a bit more optimism on TK for what's ahead. Cheers.

I don’t really care what choice the club had now it’s history. I’m not debating that I supported the clubs actions. The point I’m making is the club has done nothing about filling the holes they have left. Brailey does his knee in round 2 and the Knights have a replacement sorted before the season restarts.

We already had a spare spot before those two were sacked so they had a opportunity to bring at least one player into the squad at the very least. They were sacked so I don’t see why there would be any red tape over us replacing them either. We have now had another two more players get long term injuries so we are effectively using a squad of 25 and they haven’t made any announcements about promoting juniors or bringing anyone else in what is one to assume they have been doing?

Good on the Tigers for pushing through the hurdles and getting the deal through. I’m not sure why you would shit on them for being persistent for getting something done that they wanted to happen. It might not win them the premiership this year but if they manage to get a good hooker out of it they are laughing. It’s looking better then sighing Sione Katoa....

Is this the same Meaney that is a fullback playing on the wing? I agree he improved but it wasn’t significant.

Are you just hoping we make a impact on the open market or have some thinking behind it? With the players off contract and the clubs hit and miss style of contract negotiations I’m not overly confident they are going to get it done. I hope they do and really they have to get it done.

All good with the debate. Let’s hope the club turns it around soon and they start making in roads ASAP.

 

[TwinTurbo]

It wouldn't have been another pay day though. He'd be earning the same money either way on the same deal for one and a half more years. Both clubs would pay a split of his 750k salary. The only reason he wants to leave is because he wants to play regularly. And I doubt any club sees him as a starting player anymore.

Plainly him and his manager do.

Go Dogs

 

[DinkumDog]

Bahahahaha was all over the news and papers mate! Try google!

Right, so now we're supposed to believe everything in the papers and on the internet. OK, got it.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Bahahahaha was all over the news and papers mate! Try google!

I think we have and found a lot of skirting of the question, no definitive answers. But if you have better information then by all means post it.

Read between the lines TT, it's not that hard to put two and two together.

The problem with puting 2 and 2 together is that the answer depends a lot on ones predisposition. If someone wants and/or expects to find something that supports their beliefs then it doesn't matter what 2 and 2 actually add up to. It will always be the same interpretation, simply confirming the beliefs that they already hold.

Go Dogs

 

[DinkumDog]

I don’t really care what choice the club had now it’s history. I’m not debating that I supported the clubs actions. The point I’m making is the club has done nothing about filling the holes they have left. Brailey does his knee in round 2 and the Knights have a replacement sorted before the season restarts.

We already had a spare spot before those two were sacked so they had a opportunity to bring at least one player into the squad at the very least. They were sacked so I don’t see why there would be any red tape over us replacing them either. We have now had another two more players get long term injuries so we are effectively using a squad of 25 and they haven’t made any announcements about promoting juniors or bringing anyone else in what is one to assume they have been doing?

Good on the Tigers for pushing through the hurdles and getting the deal through. I’m not sure why you would shit on them for being persistent for getting something done that they wanted to happen. It might not win them the premiership this year but if they manage to get a good hooker out of it they are laughing. It’s looking better then sighing Sione Katoa....

Is this the same Meaney that is a fullback playing on the wing? I agree he improved but it wasn’t significant.

Are you just hoping we make a impact on the open market or have some thinking behind it? With the players off contract and the clubs hit and miss style of contract negotiations I’m not overly confident they are going to get it done. I hope they do and really they have to get it done.

All good with the debate. Let’s hope the club turns it around soon and they start making in roads ASAP.

They haven't announced what they intend to do, which is consistent with their approach in the last couple of years anyway - doesn't mean nothing is being done.
No, they weren't sacked, they were de-registered (which effectively ends their employment with us) - I'm trying to think of a precedent/outcome of an NRL initiated de-registration (as opposed to a club initiated sacking) - do you have one?

I didn't rubbish the Tigers - I said it was good thinking, but I equally don't think it's so genius that it will produce amazing results. Harry Grant has wraps, but is otherwise largely unproven at NRL level - so let's see how he develops.

I'm not hoping no - I believe there has been a lot of thought about 2021 and it's been a work in progress for some time. I'll be very disappointed if I'm wrong and I'll wear it if I am - half the Kennel will be all over me with a 'told you so' barrage .

 

[B-Train]

The Tigers players and coach confirmed we were chasing Reynolds and every reporter was reporting it yet people are still denying it!

I don't even care anymore, but some of you will literally argue any point because you think it's an attack on Pay or the club..

 

[DinkumDog]

The Tigers players and coach confirmed we were chasing Reynolds and every reporter was reporting it yet people are still denying it!

I don't even care anymore, but some of you will literally argue any point because you think it's an attack on Pay or the club..

I haven't heard anyone deny discussions took place.
What I didn't agree with was it was a done deal much less the amount of money we were allegedly willing to pay.
Quite a difference.

 

[B-Train]

I haven't heard anyone deny discussions took place.
What I didn't agree with was it was a done deal much less the amount of money we were allegedly willing to pay.
Quite a difference.

TT is arguing that talks never took place.. I agree, no one really knows what amounts were being discussed and that's all just speculation.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Pay himself acknowledged it publicly several times.

TT is arguing that talks never took place..

No, that isn't what I am arguing.
What I have yet to find any evidence of is that Pay was involved in the "talks" or "acknowledged it publicly several times".


Go Dogs

 

[Spoonman84]

They haven't announced what they intend to do, which is consistent with their approach in the last couple of years anyway - doesn't mean nothing is being done.
No, they weren't sacked, they were de-registered (which effectively ends their employment with us) - I'm trying to think of a precedent/outcome of an NRL initiated de-registration (as opposed to a club initiated sacking) - do you have one?

I didn't rubbish the Tigers - I said it was good thinking, but I equally don't think it's so genius that it will produce amazing results. Harry Grant has wraps, but is otherwise largely unproven at NRL level - so let's see how he develops.

I'm not hoping no - I believe there has been a lot of thought about 2021 and it's been a work in progress for some time. I'll be very disappointed if I'm wrong and I'll wear it if I am - half the Kennel will be all over me with a 'told you so' barrage .

Considering the season is restarting and we have a squad of 25 available players you'd think they should be getting something sorted ASAP wouldn't you? Especially when you consider Pays thoughts on fatigue of 18 rounds straight.

They have more time for 2021 but even that is going to be coming around soon with a much smaller off season then we have had before.

CHN and Okonbur were de-registered but also had their contracts terminated with the Dogs so whatever the outcome of their appeal there is no longer a contract there so I can't see how that would prevent us replacing them.

All we can do is wait and see and lets hope no one is telling you they you so because it means the club has got it's shit together.

 

[Spoonman84]

No, that isn't what I am arguing.
What I have yet to find any evidence of is that Pay was involved in the "talks" or "acknowledged it publicly several times".


Go Dogs

Josh Reynolds Bulldogs return over after Wests Tigers talks stall

Hopes of a fairytale return to Belmore have been squashed for Josh Reynolds with the former State of Origin half to remain with the Wests Tigers.

Negotiations over a switch to Canterbury have stalled after the clubs failed to reach an agreement on how his salary, believed to be around $750,000 a season, would be divided.

While the Bulldogs are in the market for players, their former cult hero would command too much of their salary cap for 2020, with the Tigers unwilling to pay top dollar for him to play at a rival club.

Bulldogs coach Dean Pay said yesterday it was difficult to make agreements with clubs for players on huge wages while keeping the salary cap in balance. “From our point of view it’s something that’s gone off the boil to a certain degree,” he said.

“When there’s large sums of money involved it’s hard to manage that side of the cap and that’s where it gets really difficult to manage.”

Reynolds was let go by the Bulldogs at the end of 2017 after seven years and two grand finals with the club. Injury has restricted him to just 14 games for the Tigers, primarily in the halves or as a bench utility.

However, the Bulldogs have plenty of money tied up in the halves with million-dollar star Kieran Foran shaping to return to the field in round three and Lachlan Lewis, Brandon Wakeham and Jack Cogger vying for a spot.

Canterbury have agreed to terms with Wakeham and the club is to announce his signature by the end of the week keeping him at the club until the end of 2022.

Wakeham’s fresh signature indicates he has edged past Lewis and Cogger in the halves battle, especially after coach Dean Pay benched halfback Lewis after 55 minutes into the clash against the North Queensland Cowboys in round two.

The Bulldogs are also dealing with several injuries from their first-grade side for the season, while Corey Harawira-Naera and Jayden Okunbor have had their contracts de-registered.

These holes need to be filled, but only when it is the right fit says Pay.

“It’s one of those things where we’re always looking for quality players but you’ve got to be able to fit in with what we’re doing salary-cap wise with different players so there’s a lot of different restrictions,” he said.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/s...l/news-story/300e100cc5cc806d76c3152ab8183766