Have other teams "figured us out"?

[magdog]

Seems to me when a team adopts and successfully implement an "up tempo" style of game against us, we struggle.

Newcastle (1st half), Parra (game II) & Tigpies all demonstrated this. Unfortunately our success at slowing play down in these types of circumstances is largely determined by the ref....some penalise like crazy, others let everything go.

I know first & foremost priority for us this week needs to be our defence, but JEEESUS Christ we have been predictable in attack for months. Shut down our left side, & Ennis & we're pretty much impotent....eg game vs Parra was WITH Kimmorley.

Here's hoping our Defence steps up next week, & we show more respect for the ball, and try to do something with it when we've got it.

 

[frogdog]

True, well its looking like we are going to play the Knights so we better sort that out fast

 

[Captain Kickass]

Good thread - Deserves more discussion.

To my eye, what appears to look like predictable attack / defensive structures, is actually the result of 80-minute footy we've adopted this year. Things like composure, attacking structure, kickchasing, set plays, positional dominance and momentum are built on the these foundations.

It's what makes us able to grind out 80-minute wins, and chase down deficits.

Against the Tigers, "everything" went wrong. Kind of like two boxers only one breaks his hand on the first punch - He can continue, but it'l be an uphill battle !

The tackle count was 25-1 and they scored twice with (half the team full of needles). As K.Moore said "composure" went out the window, we played catch-up the whole game. And we played it badly.

I have faith in this squad despite the Kimmorley loss, and the result last Friday. Given even posession and penalty counts, if we stay composed we will overcome !

 

[Dognacious]

The biggest threat at the moment isnt that other teams have figured us out or not (Our year was 18-6 so im thinking not many teams figured us out lol). The biggest threat is if we cant figure ourselves out without BK, in time to make the gf.

 

[Captain Kickass]

The biggest threat at the moment isnt that other teams have figured us out or not (Our year was 18-6 so im thinking not many teams figured us out lol). The biggest threat is if we cant figure ourselves out without BK, in time to make the gf.

Very wise GrassHopper !

 

[magdog]

The biggest threat at the moment isnt that other teams have figured us out or not (Our year was 18-6 so im thinking not many teams figured us out lol). The biggest threat is if we figure ourselves out without BK, in time to make the gf.

Yeah, fair call, but remember our 2 worst performances have happenned in the back end of the season ie. EELs match, & Tigpies.

Those teams who don't have the cattle of ability to pull off an up tempo style of match, are in 18 who we have beaten. Of our six losses most have been against teams who adopt this tactic.

Others who went close in recent times and play up tempo include the Raiders (away from home!) if you recall, Souffs did it to us in the first half, but they are heavily weighed down by having to many "coconuts" in their team to pull it off for 80mins.

Defence wins big matches sure, I lived through the 80s I know, but the modern game is about making the most of what opportunities you get, and if all we rely on is swinging the ball out the left we will get shut down. Much like Parra did this to us.
Also the Idris defensive inadequacies have been flagged by a few teams in recent times, it's just the Tigpies pulled it off successfully. Chooks tried but didn't have the cattle. Whilst I mention the chooks...hope they enjoy the Spoon....especially W.Mason!

 

[Berries]

They figured out Millard should be playing instead of Idris

 

[Number13]

I believe they have.

In saying this, Kevin Moore has figured them out!

 

[B-Train]

No not in my mind.

Everyone knew from 6 weeks into the comp that we attacked down the left but we still scored down the left with ease. It's one thing to know about something it's another to stop it. We were playing with such confidence then and that is an area which was a concern on Friday with no Noddy being there.

I agree with what you said about up tempo teams troubling us but also think that is down to us being lazy and not paying enough attention to detail to areas like wrapping up the ball, slowing down the play the ball, having better line speed and communicating on our line better.

All of that comes down to effort and mentality and nothing else. And none of that comes from another team, that comes from within.

We control our destiny and if we just focused on those areas and therefore got more confidence from holding teams oput and being able to do more with the ball then we will be fine.

But if we keep defending like we do, we will be our own worst enemy, beat ourselves and throw away a great chance.

 

[magdog]

So we know they know what we're gonna do, and as a result we'll know what to do to beat them yeah ?!

 

[Captain Kickass]

No not in my mind.

Everyone knew from 6 weeks into the comp that we attacked down the left but we still scored down the left with ease. It's one thing to know about something it's another to stop it.

I liked that bit. Very true.

I agree with what you said about up tempo teams troubling us but also think that is down to us being lazy and not paying enough attention to detail to areas like wrapping up the ball, slowing down the play the ball, having better line speed and communicating on our line better.

A little harsh for mine : I see it as poor execution rather than poor discpline.

We ARE ... an 80-minute team. Composure will be addressed midweek, and fitness will NOT be an issue.

 

[B-Train]

So we know they know what we're gonna do, and as a result we'll know what to do to beat them yeah ?!

Haha. Pretty much.

I liked that bit. Very true.


A little harsh for mine : I see it as poor execution rather than poor discpline.

We ARE ... an 80-minute team. Composure will be addressed midweek, and fitness will NOT be an issue.

I think poor execution in those areas comes from a lack of discipline as when it comes to those areas of defence discipline is what leads to success in that department and is vital.

Also I disagree that we are an 80 minute team. I can't think of more than two games all season (if that) where we haven't switched off for at least a 20 minute period of a game. Again, that comes down to mentality and being ruthless.

We haven't had that all season and if we get that mentality all of a sudden which consequently led to us improving in those areas and being an 80 minute team we'd be near impossible to beat.

 

[filto666]

The 2 things that were in common during the Eels and Tigers matches were not so much our defence but our tempo in attack.

When we fire 2 up at a high tempo in attack it overwelms the opposition and the commentators have talked about it all year, we then go wide and Roberts/Morris/Goodwin usually finiish off the hard work from our high tempo playing up the guts.

When we drop off like on Fri night we dont go anywhere and then the team will just run over us.

 

[B-Train]

One thing that I've noticed we don't do as much and had great success with is spreading it wide well within our own half. We made tonnes of line breaks and territory with that tactic this season but haven't done that for the last few months and again I think that comes down to confidence or a lack thereof to a certain degree.

 

[Captain Kickass]

Interesting ..... *scratching chin*

A few bullet points to keep things moving ...

* We did win 18 from 24 - But admitedly most were 1-12 wins. We were probably a couple of 13+ wins short of being ruthless.

* We can win Ugly !

* I concede your point Ben about 20-minute drop-offs, but refer you to our record. Composure overcomes poor starts.

* Parra pulled our pants down. Even with Noddy, they were buoyant. - Tigers left us punch drunk after 10mins and we never recovered. Even with Noddy it wouldn't have mattered.

Maybe it's time to get some stats on records against finals teams this year, and re-assess.

 

[I R Cookie]

Not really, we've lost a few games but bounced back the next week.

The Tigers have in the past few years, seemed to have gotten the edge over us due to their style of play.

One things for sure, our game will change for next week. I actually think it's a blessing that we lost and it'll keep other teams guessing. The general opinion is that we're struggling without Kimmorely, that will be the main thing on the oppositions mind and I think that can work to our advantage

 

[CMP]

Both recent heavy defeats (EEL & TIGERS) add the Manly game to that list. Are from a direct result of having to defend so much early in the game.

We need to get the basics right early in games & at least have an even share of the ball over the first 20-30min of the game. Our defence has been ordinary at times but alot of this comes down to the amount of work in defence we have had to do early in games wearing us out.

Basics like playing the ball correctly & holding the ball without going for the miricle ball out the back every tackle. Is killing us! Get to the kick & pressure the other team into error at least early in games should be our number 1 priority as far as a game plan goes!

 

[bulldogs2010]

No team has figured us out.

I say our biggest enemy this year has been our lack to wrap up the frekn football so teams throw the ball around knowing we don't wrap it, they get a fast play the ball and demolish us on the next play.

We'll be right if we wrap up the damn footy.

 

[magdog]

No team has figured us out.

I say our biggest enemy this year has been our lack to wrap up the frekn football so teams throw the ball around knowing we don't wrap it, they get a fast play the ball and demolish us on the next play.

We'll be right if we wrap up the damn footy.

.....Soooo you're saying that if a team gets the ball away in tackles & get a fast play the ball against us, they demolish us the next play....sure sounds to me like a way to beat us.

Hmmm, doesn't that sound like figuring out a way to beat us?:whacky:

 

[simmmo]

True, the high energy teams with big forwards getting on a roll seem to trouble us. especially if they have backs like benji who can take advantage of that.

Thats a massive concern. And that is why i have been railing against guys like warburton from the start. when the opposition big blokes fire up and get on a roll, we've got too many sort grinding style forwards who struggle with the physicality of the confrontations. on friday night the tiges were winning the battle of the collision. Our forwards were making no yards (apart from hannant and eastwood and gordon when he's on). When the massive packs start bullying, we've got guys that can get bullied. And that's definitely a concern.

But up till now we've done really well with what we've got. We seem to be able to hang in there and grind out wins so i'm not too concerned, but i definitely think we could do with some big hard running back rowers next year, esp now that beastwood is going.