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Half-back

bulldogsmyte

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Why have we been unable to recruit, identify or develop a half back since Trent Hodkinson? It has been seven years since we have had a NRL standard half. Every person responsible for recruitment and development are all fkn frauds and should hang their heads in shame.
Hodko was an ordinary HB. He had no running game, no creativity and rarely threw the money ball to set up tries. He basically threw nothing passes and kicked on the last. That's why Manly let him go because they had someone far better coming up - DCE.
That's why in 2014 despite having the best forward pack in the comp we struggled to score when we were in the red zone because the halves were crap and had no idea how to set up tries and we were often reliant on field goals to win games. That's around the time the Desball tactic of "Tolman on the 4th" began and started the cancer in the club because Hodko and Reynolds were clueless in attack. We have not had a top class HB since an aging Noddy in 2009-10.
 

Mackdoggies

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Nothing I've said is wrong. Copy paste something that's wrong please (or keep dribbling).

P.S. pretty obvious why Gus blocked you on twitter.
Haha riteo buddy. NRL teams don’t need Half backs. You win.

Good chance you are Gus with how arrogant and stubborn you are….
 

Mackdoggies

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Brisbane Broncos 2006

They had one, but he was very no frills.

Shane Perry.

Alot easier when you have 10 superstar's in the team around you though.
Exactly my point. 16 years since the last one and it was a team of superstars.
 

bradyk

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Haha riteo buddy. NRL teams don’t need Half backs. You win.

Good chance you are Gus with how arrogant and stubborn you are….
There's something obviously wrong with you. I don't know why you reply. I never said NRL teams don't need halfbacks. Go and copy paste something I said that was wrong (you can't).
 

Mackdoggies

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Townsend is a dud HB who rode on Maloney's back in 2016 and Moses has never led his team filled with a strong roster to a GF and often goes missing in big games. Hynes is already a superior HB to both of them as are Keary and Johnson.
There is a delusion on the TK that a "traditional halfback" is one who just "organises" or the awful term of "game manager". i.e just passes and kicks the ball. The majority of the greatest HB in history had a good running games in addition to their "organising" - Mortimer, Johns, Thurston, Langer etc and those with limited running games like Sterlo and Stuart had exceptional passing and kicking games.
A premiership winning half back is one that controls the team and the plays but also takes the line on to give room to his 5/8 and outside backs.
 

bulldogsmyte

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A premiership winning half back is one that controls the team and the plays but also takes the line on to give room to his 5/8 and outside backs.
How often does Townsend takes the line on and sets up tries? What does Townsend do to control the team? His signature move is to drift sideways and throw an inside pass to a flat footed forward going nowhere. Rinse and repeat all game. He is a dud.
How many GF has Moses played in?
 

JackDog

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One step at a time. You’re dreaming of you think we’ll go from last to first in a flash. You can’t tel me if we made the 8 this year you wouldn’t be thrilled.
At the moment I’d be happy if the players just attacked and defended like they actually gave a fuck about winning.

And were fit enough to get back square at marker and get onside
 

Nate DAWG

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Hodko was an ordinary HB. He had no running game, no creativity and rarely threw the money ball to set up tries. He basically threw nothing passes and kicked on the last. That's why Manly let him go because they had someone far better coming up - DCE.
That's why in 2014 despite having the best forward pack in the comp we struggled to score when we were in the red zone because the halves were crap and had no idea how to set up tries and we were often reliant on field goals to win games. That's around the time the Desball tactic of "Tolman on the 4th" began and started the cancer in the club because Hodko and Reynolds were clueless in attack. We have not had a top class HB since an aging Noddy in 2009-10.
I am no fan of Hokko but he is light years ahead of the trash we have had since. At least he was a half back. At least he was NRL standard.
 

bulldogsmyte

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I am no fan of Hokko but he is light years ahead of the trash we have had since. At least he was a half back. At least he was NRL standard.
By what definition was he a "HB" and the current duds Flange/Wake/Avo not a HB? They are all "HB" but they are all crap. They all have the same weakness in that none of those 4 had any vision and creativity and they all mainly throw hospital passes. The only advantage Hodko has over those 3 duds is that he was a decent goal kicker. Hodko played in a better team and under a better coach. If Hodko played in this era in the same dud team we have now he would be the same dud player he was back then and our team would have the same problems - no creativity, no leadership, no vision.
 

Nate DAWG

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By what definition was he a "HB" and the current duds Flange/Wake/Avo not a HB? They are all "HB" but they are all crap. They all have the same weakness in that none of those 4 had any vision and creativity and they all mainly throw hospital passes. The only advantage Hodko has over those 3 duds is that he was a decent goal kicker. Hodko played in a better team and under a better coach. If Hodko played in this era in the same dud team we have now he would be the same dud player he was back then and our team would have the same problems - no creativity, no leadership, no vision.
Hokko won many games for manly and the dogs and led teams around the park for years on the NRL. Hokko played origin. Not sure why you are comparing Avo, Wakeham Flanagan to him. Again, my OP was highlighting how poor our half back development and recruitment has been. Hokko had shot knees and I used him as reference point for how long since we have had a HB, not to say Hokko was some sort of gun half. Kimorley was probably our last best half
 

bulldogsmyte

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Hokko won many games for manly and the dogs and led teams around the park for years on the NRL. Hokko played origin. Not sure why you are comparing Avo, Wakeham Flanagan to him. Again, my OP was highlighting how poor our half back development and recruitment has been. Hokko had shot knees and I used him as reference point for how long since we have had a HB, not to say Hokko was some sort of gun half. Kimorley was probably our last best half
>"led teams around the park for years on the NRL"
I think you see Hodko through rose coloured glasses. He didn't lead any team. A leader is someone like Turvey and Baa who create tries, puts players through holes and barks orders to their team mates to get into position, inspires their team mates etc. Hodko did nothing of that sort. His whole career he mainly gave pedestrian passes to team mates and bombed on the last. His main selling point was goal kicking and the odd field goal.
>"Hokko played origin"
So has Corey Allen and Brett Finch. Playing Origin does not necessary mean you are an elite player. Allen and Hodko played Origin when there was a drought of talent in their respective states. In Hodko's case NSW had a crap pool of HB to choose from at the time which resulted in Qld's record Origin period. The fact that NSW used a dud like Pearce of crap as HB for almost a decade shows how bad the quality of NSW HBs were. And don't tell me that Hodko was the guy who won Origin for NSW, it was the gun player who Parra no longer mentions who was largely responsible for NSW winning that year.

re: your OP
You are right about how bad our HB have been. It's been shocking for over 10 years and the truth is Hodko was part of that 10 years of poor HBs.
 

Kempsey Dog

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Half backs are the main reason the NRL shouldn’t expand. There’s just not enough first grade standard ones.

Reynolds, Cleary, Hughes, Townsend, Moses, DCE.

Keary and Johnson are both 5/8’s playing halfback. Hynes is killing it but isn’t a traditional halfback of any kind.

Hastings may become a good halfback. He’s a good footy player at the moment but still more a 5/8 before the last month.

All the rest are lucky to play first grade as a halfback. When there’s only really 6 professional half backs in the comp it’s always going to be an issue.
Imo Hastings is an excellent halfback, he just doesn't have as much quality around him like the other halves mentioned
 

Kempsey Dog

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I wish we kept Cogger to be honest, always thought he was a good little halfback and would have been a good game manager just needed better pieces around him. Would have complemented Burton nicely and allow him to play his natural game.
He was a great kid with a high ceiling imo, he always put in defensively despite people saying otherwise
 

Nate DAWG

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>"led teams around the park for years on the NRL"
I think you see Hodko through rose coloured glasses. He didn't lead any team. A leader is someone like Turvey and Baa who create tries, puts players through holes and barks orders to their team mates to get into position, inspires their team mates etc. Hodko did nothing of that sort. His whole career he mainly gave pedestrian passes to team mates and bombed on the last. His main selling point was goal kicking and the odd field goal.
>"Hokko played origin"
So has Corey Allen and Brett Finch. Playing Origin does not necessary mean you are an elite player. Allen and Hodko played Origin when there was a drought of talent in their respective states. In Hodko's case NSW had a crap pool of HB to choose from at the time which resulted in Qld's record Origin period. The fact that NSW used a dud like Pearce of crap as HB for almost a decade shows how bad the quality of NSW HBs were. And don't tell me that Hodko was the guy who won Origin for NSW, it was the gun player who Parra no longer mentions who was largely responsible for NSW winning that year.

re: your OP
You are right about how bad our HB have been. It's been shocking for over 10 years and the truth is Hodko was part of that 10 years of poor HBs.
bro...i dont see Hokko through anything. Hokko was an NRL standard half. Was not a class player. The fact he is so much better than Wakeham, Avo, Flanno etc. says more about the level of garbage they are. The point of my OP is nothing to do with Hokko. Include him if you want. The point is our HB recruitment, development and retention has been a disgrace. I agree with everything you said about origin and Hayne being the reason that NSW won that year.
 

Glenn L

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Started a thread on this 2 weeks ago and the masses said don't worry we have great ones coming through? Without a top class organising halfback the club is wasting it's time (and our money)!
 

Alan79

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Half backs are the main reason the NRL shouldn’t expand. There’s just not enough first grade standard ones.

Reynolds, Cleary, Hughes, Townsend, Moses, DCE.

Keary and Johnson are both 5/8’s playing halfback. Hynes is killing it but isn’t a traditional halfback of any kind.

Hastings may become a good halfback. He’s a good footy player at the moment but still more a 5/8 before the last month.

All the rest are lucky to play first grade as a halfback. When there’s only really 6 professional half backs in the comp it’s always going to be an issue.
I might be wrong, but I think the lack of halfbacks is a symptom of a couple of things. Firstly, junior rep sides these days tend to favour big athletes first and foremost. Doesn't matter if you are a crafty little player if you're getting bashed out of the game by monsters by the time you're 14.

Secondly it follows that a lot of the best halves were fairly intelligent. There are some halves that are instinctive rather than thinkers. But I really think that a lot of potentially good halves would see that bigger, faster stronger players are the flavour of the decade and walk away from the game.

My mother decided on my behalf that I wasn't playing football moving into the U 14's when she saw us play the magpies U 13's team 2 games out from the grand final. Their smallest player was about 15-20kgs bigger than our version of a monster prop. This was close to 30 years ago and the trend was already there to look for big athletes.
 

Nate DAWG

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I might be wrong, but I think the lack of halfbacks is a symptom of a couple of things. Firstly, junior rep sides these days tend to favour big athletes first and foremost. Doesn't matter if you are a crafty little player if you're getting bashed out of the game by monsters by the time you're 14.

Secondly it follows that a lot of the best halves were fairly intelligent. There are some halves that are instinctive rather than thinkers. But I really think that a lot of potentially good halves would see that bigger, faster stronger players are the flavour of the decade and walk away from the game.

My mother decided on my behalf that I wasn't playing football moving into the U 14's when she saw us play the magpies U 13's team 2 games out from the grand final. Their smallest player was about 15-20kgs bigger than our version of a monster prop. This was close to 30 years ago and the trend was already there to look for big athletes.
I think it is also junior coaches thinking they are Bellamy, creating these robotic halves that just play to a structure. The best halves are not small guys, Cleary and Munster etc are as big as props from the 80s
 
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