Electric vs petrol cars

[Hacky McAxe]

From your short list Rav 4 would be the safest bet Haval would be risky choice no enough real world family testing.

Yeah, I agree. Not so much on the safety. The Haval is loaded with safety stuff and it has a 5 star ANCAP rating, which means that it's safety stuff has been heavily tested. And it has a 7 year warranty. But due to the brand not being around Australia for long, there's risk with long term servicing, and the re-sale value is crap compared to the Rav4. The Rav4 has the best re-sale value of any SUV. Plus, Toyota have the largest network of service centres in Australia.

But as I said, the wait for a new Rav4 is over 12 months. And second hand Rav4's from 2 years ago sell for more than a brand new Rav4. Meanwhile the Haval H6 top of the range model is cheaper than a bottom of the range Rav4.

It's a tough decision. If it wasn't for the long term wait, I would happily pay 20k extra for a Rav4. But I don't think I'm willing to pay 20k extra and wait 12-18 months. And I don't want a second hand trashed vehicle.

 

[Cook]

The interesting one is Hybrids. The service industry has boosted their sales more than EVs. Every second Taxi or Uber is now a Hybrid Camry due to the low fuel use. Many other services buy up all the Rav 4 Hybrids. Hence why the current wait for a Rav4 hybrid is 12-18 months. That's all based on savings. If you get paid by the Km and your options are a vehicle that uses 9L per 100km or a vehicle that uses 4.5L per 100km, the choice seems obvious.

I'm currently looking for a new car myself. Probably a medium SUV. My choice is narrowed down to Hyundai Tucson (Diesel), Rav4 (Hybrid), Haval H6 (Hybrid), and Mitsubishi Outlander (Plug-in Hybrid)

I drive a lot so I'm leaning toward a Hybrid or Diesel as a second option. When you compare the actual fuel use per 100km, the Outlander seems obvious (Tucson = 7.5L, Rav4 = 5.1L, Haval H6 = 6.5L, Outlander = 1.8L). But the Outlander is a lot more expensive and has other issues that hold it back for me. Plus it's a plug-in hybrid while the others don't need to plug in. If I had a decent solar setup, the Outlander would be best. And I probably will get a decent solar setup and one stage. But I'm planning to buy a new house in the next few years, so I won't bother until then. And by that time I will probably be selling this car and looking for a better one. Probably a full EV. Just to piss off Boosty.

Tucson seem very popular at the moment. On the environment part, I think the article I read was more based on the mining for certain metals/minerals required. Was a paper from Japan

 

[Trinfly]

MR Triton run out deals may get better or Nissan Navara on sale 50k but of course not as comfortable as the wagons the whole car industry is up in the air chinese push into market wait times etc. I think a diesel for OZ may hold resale with the Governments stance on EV and push to renewable energy.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Tucson seem very popular at the moment. On the environment part, I think the article I read was more based on the mining for certain metals/minerals required. Was a paper from Japan

Yeah, mining is a problem. There are different tech that require different minerals, but the commonly used one (Lithium) is mined in shit conditions. It's not really an environmental problem. It's a human rights issue. But the same lithium is being used in every smartphone battery.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

MR Triton run out deals may get better or Nissan Navara on sale 50k but of course not as comfortable as the wagons the whole car industry is up in the air chinese push into market wait times etc. I think a diesel for OZ may hold resale with the Governments stance on EV and push to renewable energy.

The most annoying thing is that most of the government rebates ended at the end of last year. The government had a decent rebate if you bought an EV. But that ended last year.

 

[Blue_boost]

The interesting one is Hybrids. The service industry has boosted their sales more than EVs. Every second Taxi or Uber is now a Hybrid Camry due to the low fuel use. Many other services buy up all the Rav 4 Hybrids. Hence why the current wait for a Rav4 hybrid is 12-18 months. That's all based on savings. If you get paid by the Km and your options are a vehicle that uses 9L per 100km or a vehicle that uses 4.5L per 100km, the choice seems obvious.

I'm currently looking for a new car myself. Probably a medium SUV. My choice is narrowed down to Hyundai Tucson (Diesel), Rav4 (Hybrid), Haval H6 (Hybrid), and Mitsubishi Outlander (Plug-in Hybrid)

I drive a lot so I'm leaning toward a Hybrid or Diesel as a second option. When you compare the actual fuel use per 100km, the Outlander seems obvious (Tucson = 7.5L, Rav4 = 5.1L, Haval H6 = 6.5L, Outlander = 1.8L). But the Outlander is a lot more expensive and has other issues that hold it back for me. Plus it's a plug-in hybrid while the others don't need to plug in. If I had a decent solar setup, the Outlander would be best. And I probably will get a decent solar setup and one stage. But I'm planning to buy a new house in the next few years, so I won't bother until then. And by that time I will probably be selling this car and looking for a better one. Probably a full EV. Just to piss off Boosty.

don’t buy the Haval. There is a girl at my gym that try’s to act like she is the hottest thing ,,, but when she leaves gym she jumps in her Havel and drives away, I think straight away bum. Like someone showing up to a job interview driving a 30 year old falcon.. you not gonna give them the job are ya.

 

[SexBomb]

Power grids in many parts of Australia are running at or close to max as it is. The grid couldnt handle everyone suddenly having EVs. So its good the uptake is slow. We dont have the infrastructure to support mass use of EVs yet. Its like they invented the train before they invented tracks.

The engineering in designing tracks is surprising.

 

[SexBomb]

Yeah, it's a problem. Governments always handle this stuff poorly. But it's usually due to how our democratic systems work. Liberals were pushing for minimal infrastructure. Labor come in and they're pushing for maximum infrastructure, but they don't have time to implement it before they likely get voted out. So instead they create demand.

The Labor government put in large rebates for electric vehicles, with an even bigger rebate for fleet vehicles. They attempted to create an army of cars that need EV infrastructure. Because they know that the early adopters will push for more infrastructure regardless of who is in power. It's the classic sales tactic. Like when Nestle gave powdered milk to starving Africans, then offered to sell them clean water so they could use the powdered milk. It's smart marketing. Create the demand before the supply.

More sinister than that by memory.
Mothers only produce milk for a certain period without use before 'drying up' so to speak.
So they supplied enough to exceed that period, leaving the mothers dry and unable to feed the babies without buying the powder and milk.

 

[SexBomb]

Sadly there's so many of those stories. When someone asks me how to prevent an attack, my general response is, "pray they're too stupid to know what they're doing"

Security is all about deterrent. You scare people enough that they won't test your system. 'cause it they do, they'll figure out that security is shit.

There is ways to put effective security in with immediate response, but no one accepts that, because it costs more money. So everyone takes the cheap option. And if they get robbed, they claim it on insurance.

A while back I carried out security audits for the RTA (now RMS). I walked through their offices pretending to be a contractor. I asked one of the IT guys for access to the comms room (without mentioning who I was), he opened the comms room for me and asked if I need him to log into the main frame. Keep in mind that these servers had all the personal data for every person in Australia that holds any kind of government issued license.

I love dealing with government affiliated companies. It's always entertaining.

Pentesting indeed can be fun.

 

[SexBomb]

At one stage I consulted the NSW crime commission. Those guys knew how to handle it. They basically said, "we need your most secure system that's entirely off line. No outside connection at all"

How did the organic material programming go?

 

[SexBomb]

Thermodynamics. You can't make energy from nothing. If you fit a generator to the wheels, drive shaft, or anything like that, then it would take more energy to drive the wheels. Basically using more fuel. Battery charging can only be done from otherwise wasted energy (braking)

The only other alternative is to use an actual engine fueled by something else. Like a petrol generator engine. There's several hybrids that operate that way including the Nissan X-Trail E Power. While ones like the Rav4 use the petrol engine in tandem with the electric engine. Others like the X-Trail run the wheels entirely off the electric engine, and the petrol engine acts as a generator for the electric engine.

Would the closest we have be nuclear decay?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

How did the organic material programming go?

I walked away from the project. Off-line systems are a nightmare. Months or years down the track you eventually find an exploit that needs to be patched. But you can't patch it because you need to go through months of paper work to be allowed to patch it. During that time the system is vulnerable to a known threat and when something inevitably goes wrong, you get the blame.

 

[TwinTurbo]

The most annoying thing is that most of the government rebates ended at the end of last year. The government had a decent rebate if you bought an EV. But that ended last year.

The problem was (and still is) it is mostly "rich people" that buy EV's and left leaning Governments (Vic, NSW, Qld, Federal) always hate giving money to "rich people", prime example latest income tax cuts. The EV FBT exemption is another, the internal fighting over that is getting louder, after all it's only the "rich people" that pay FBT.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Hacky McAxe]

The problem was (and still is) it is mostly "rich people" that buy EV's and left leaning Governments (Vic, NSW, Qld, Federal) always hate giving money to "rich people", prime example latest income tax cuts. The EV FBT exemption is another, the internal fighting over that is getting louder, after all it's only the "rich people" that pay FBT.


Always a Bulldog

True. At least the stamp duty thing was aimed at lower income families.

 

[sideswip]

what's a plug in Hybrid car ? isnt Plug in all electric ?

 

[TwinTurbo]

what's a plug in Hybrid car ? isnt Plug in all electric ?

Has both motors, ICE and electric, like a hybrid but with much bigger battery so they can go further on the electric motor. Useful in cities where ICEV's are banned, so you can drive around for the day on the electric motor without starting the ICE. Disadvantages, cost more (basically 2 drivetrains), very limited range (commonly 40 km or so), heavy (2 drive trains plus a decent sized battery).


Always a Bulldog

 

[sideswip]

Has both motors, ICE and electric, like a hybrid but with much bigger battery so they can go further on the electric motor. Useful in cities where ICEV's are banned, so you can drive around for the day on the electric motor without starting the ICE. Disadvantages, cost more (basically 2 drivetrains), very limited range (commonly 40 km or so), heavy (2 drive trains plus a decent sized battery).


Always a Bulldog

thank you for explaining that

 

[SexBomb]

I walked away from the project. Off-line systems are a nightmare. Months or years down the track you eventually find an exploit that needs to be patched. But you can't patch it because you need to go through months of paper work to be allowed to patch it. During that time the system is vulnerable to a known threat and when something inevitably goes wrong, you get the blame.

Don't blame you if that's the structure you've got to work within.

 

[Scoooby]

Not or won’t ever be a consideration… good old petrol power anyday. Fuk EVs !!!

 

[TwinTurbo]

Yeah, I agree. Not so much on the safety. The Haval is loaded with safety stuff and it has a 5 star ANCAP rating, which means that it's safety stuff has been heavily tested.

A pet subject of mine, Safety Ratings, primary safety versus secondary safety. A simple example of primary safety, to me a car that stops from 100 kph in, say, 30 metres is SAFER than a car that takes 35 metres to stop. Air bags, seat belt pre tensioners, safety cells etc are all very well but if the car stops before it hits something then those things simply aren't needed. Similarly manoeuvrability, steer around the accident rather than plow into it and rely on the air bags to save your arse. What is missing in ANCAP ratings is measurements of primary safety, how good is this thing at avoiding accidents. Not for a second suggesting that secondary safety isn't important, sometimes nothing can be done other than hang on and wait for the bang. But surely avoiding the accident in the first place is SAFER.

Since this is an electric versus petrol car discussion, primary safety is one of the things that EV's, due to their substantially heavier weight and low rolling resistance tyres (often undersized as well), are not the best at.


Always a Bulldog