Coronavirus.

[Hacky McAxe]

I guess there is no rule book to this and they are definitely over cautious, some things don't make sense to me ,still think all this stuff that has been done is for the greater good, my cousin getting married at the zoo soon kinda hoping a small outbreak at that time prevents me goings, or ill just get shit faced and hang out with the monkeys.

Isn't that how AIDS started?

 

[Natboy]

It's a tricky situation. I personally think the restrictions are over the top, and some of them seem highly non-sensical, but I can see where they're coming from. They're taking a small brush fire and throwing the Atlantic Ocean on it. It's overkill but if the virus gets out of control then no amount of restrictions will shut it down. They're just trying to prevent that.

I agree and appreciate that but it’s not as though the restrictions aren’t without consequences. I don’t believe they are finding a correct balance in protecting us from a virus hardly anyone has here and keeping businesses & freedoms alive. I think other politicians would be much more over the top though too so we are lucky there

 

[Dawgfather]

It's a tricky situation. I personally think the restrictions are over the top, and some of them seem highly non-sensical, but I can see where they're coming from. They're taking a small brush fire and throwing the Atlantic Ocean on it. It's overkill but if the virus gets out of control then no amount of restrictions will shut it down. They're just trying to prevent that.

So far as it relates to the current situation in Australia, forcing people to wear masks in public places will do nothing to 'ensure that the virus doesn't get out of control'

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Entirely anecdotal. Zero statistics to back up these broad assertions. Sounds like the reporting of COVID in Australia "Everyone should be very concerned" despite there being zero local cases anywhere in Australia for days now, but everyone should definitely #maskup!!

Kind of. Not entirely anecdotal but there isn't a whole lot of research on it. The article covers that. It covers some of the growing research on Long Covid. Still too early to say anything definitive about how many are effected by it and how long it can go for.

Here's the full article.

The Problem of ‘Long Haul’ COVID

More and more patients are dealing with major symptoms that linger for months

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Hacky McAxe]

This is madness. Expecting everyone to have a vaccine for a virus that does not present a risk for 90+% of the population, whilst simultaneously saying that we don't even know if the vaccine will stop you transmitting the virus.

I am all for vaccines where they clearly have benefits for the person taking them, but as it stands, these vaccines present next to zero benefit for ~90% of Australia's population who end up taking it.

from news.com.au

Not known if vaccines can stop transmission

Ally Foster
Authorities don't know how effective the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines will be in stopping the transmission of COVID-19.
Former chief medical officer, Brendan Murphy, said both vaccines will be able to successfully prevent people from getting critically ill from the virus.
"We don't yet know how effective they are at preventing the transmission of the virus. Those arrange studies that were published, the phase 3 trials are based around prevention of clinical disease," he said.
"We will be progressively getting data over the coming months about the impact on transmission of the virus. It stands to reason that these vaccines will also prevent, to some degree, transmission of the virus but we don't know how effective they are at doing that."
Professor Murphy said it will be about three months before the impact of the vaccines on transmission can be seen.
"We will progressively re-evaluate the situation at the time. We think they will be effective," he said.
"The other thing we don't know is how long the immunity of these vaccines will last. It may be that people will need additional doses of vaccines, possibly annually. These things are completely unknown at the moment."

Madness?

This is Modern Medicine!

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I agree and appreciate that but it’s not as though the restrictions aren’t without consequences. I don’t believe they are finding a correct balance in protecting us from a virus hardly anyone has here and keeping businesses & freedoms alive. I think other politicians would be much more over the top though too so we are lucky there

Yeah, I tend to agree. As I said, I can understand why they go over the top, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

Suffice to say, it's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make. Imagine being the one who says that we should pull back restrictions only to have the virus overrun Australia. That person would cop all the blame for it. But right now they're copping all the blame for not relaxing restrictions. Good old risk balance scenario that can give you nightmares.

 

[dogluva]

Not looking great for the Pfizer vaccine. It's a really low death count (much lower than Covid) but still very high for a vaccine.

Most vaccines have a death of about 1 in 20 million. This one is around 1 in 1,000 (based on Norway data). That's way too high.

Do you think it should be more haste and less speed with things? I know that they have had the technology from previous vaccine creations which would help but are they rushing it?Normally things take a lot longer but I have heard that the reason it has been relatively quick is that they are throwing consistent money and effort at the vaccine.

 

[Dawgfather]

Madness?

This is Modern Medicine!

In all seriousness can someone put forward the argument for why the following hypothetical person would want take the vaccine?

Age: 30
Existing medical conditions: zero
General health: well above average fitness and overall health
Outlook on COVID: Not overly fussed about it, but wouldn't want their parents to catch it and die

 

[Mr 95%]

Yeah, I tend to agree. As I said, I can understand why they go over the top, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

Suffice to say, it's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make. Imagine being the one who says that we should pull back restrictions only to have the virus overrun Australia. That person would cop all the blame for it. But right now they're copping all the blame for not relaxing restrictions. Good old risk balance scenario that can give you nightmares.

In the end Hacky it’s best if Government’s be proactive not reactive...

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Do you think it should be more haste and less speed with things? I know that they have had the technology from previous vaccine creations which would help but are they rushing it?Normally things take a lot longer but I have heard that the reason it has been relatively quick is that they are throwing consistent money and effort at the vaccine.

Not really rushing it. Generally the safety testing has been around the same amount of time. The rush was on approval, production and efficacy testing.

All that said, it's looking like the deaths weren't related to the vaccine so it doesn't look like it's a vaccine safety issue either.

 

[The DoggFather]

In all seriousness can someone put forward the argument for why the following hypothetical person would want take the vaccine?

Age: 30
Existing medical conditions: zero
General health: well above average fitness and overall health
Outlook on COVID: Not overly fussed about it, but wouldn't want their parents to catch it and die

wouldn't want their parents to catch it and die

You answered your own question.

 

[dogluva]

Yeah, I tend to agree. As I said, I can understand why they go over the top, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

Suffice to say, it's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make. Imagine being the one who says that we should pull back restrictions only to have the virus overrun Australia. That person would cop all the blame for it. But right now they're copping all the blame for not relaxing restrictions. Good old risk balance scenario that can give you nightmares.

Great response. This sums up exactly what is happening. Damned if you do and also if you dont. Getting a balanced response to the situation is an absolute nightmare but we are lucky that we are an island nation which would help a bit in restricting the virus spread, but there is little margin still for error. What I dont agree with at the moment is allowing overseas travellers in ( that in itself is a catch 22 situation too which affects a lot of people business and livelihood wise) as now the infections are from those in isolation after returning from overseas or tennis players.

 

[Dawgfather]

wouldn't want their parents to catch it and die

You answered your own question.

The vaccine has not been confirmed to stop transmission of the virus.

There is a very good chance that if you take the vaccine and catch covid, that you will still transmit it to your parents anyway.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

In all seriousness can someone put forward the argument for why the following hypothetical person would want take the vaccine?

Age: 30
Existing medical conditions: zero
General health: well above average fitness and overall health
Outlook on COVID: Not overly fussed about it, but wouldn't want their parents to catch it and die

The main reason is if the vaccine prevents spread. It most likely does but that hasn't been fully tested yet. If it does then it comes down to herd immunity. If it doesn't then there probably isn't a point. There is still many young, healthy people getting very sick from it so it would help. But those cases are pretty rare so if it doesn't prevent spread then I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to play Russian Roulette with their lives.

But until it is proven either way the assumption has to be that herd immunity will work.

 

[Dawgfather]

The main reason is if the vaccine prevents spread. It most likely does but that hasn't been fully tested yet. If it does then it comes down to herd immunity. If it doesn't then there probably isn't a point. There is still many young, healthy people getting very sick from it so it would help. But those cases are pretty rare so if it doesn't prevent spread then I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to play Russian Roulette with their lives.

But until it is proven either way the assumption has to be that herd immunity will work.

If it turns out that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, is there any reason that a healthy person would want to take the vaccine?

The reason I'm asking is because this is my current situation. I'm young'ish, fit and healthy.

I've always taken vaccines in the past including the flu jab, but given the last 12 months I've actually started researching a bit about vaccines which now has me questioning whether I should continue taking the annual flu jab and heavily questioning what incentive I have for taking the COVID vaccine.

 

[The DoggFather]

The vaccine has not been confirmed to stop transmission of the virus.

There is a very good chance that if you take the vaccine and catch covid, that you will still transmit it to your parents anyway.

Why move the goal posts? Why not add this to your original question?

It's up to the individual, immune suppressed people have be advise not to take any type of vaccines until told to by professionals, in my case, the professors from the transplant team in St Vincent's.

If the vaccine is proven safe and increases the chance of NOT contracting the virus, what's the harm?

Unless you think the lizard people combined with the illuminati have put nano technology into the vaccine?

 

[dogluva]

But masks don't stop you smelling farts

I made a comment much like this to someone when I was talking about mask wearing. They are restrictive ( well the three layer cloth ones I use) but you can still smell things......Some protection but not 100% if you can smell stuff. Like a condom with a pin hole....

 

[south of heaven]

Isn't that how AIDS started?

Possibly just incase ill hang out with the bats ....
Oh hang on

 

[Hacky McAxe]

The vaccine has not been confirmed to stop transmission of the virus.

There is a very good chance that if you take the vaccine and catch covid, that you will still transmit it to your parents anyway.

Right now I think the assumption is that it'll at least reduce the chance of you infecting others. It prevents most symptoms and asymptomatic spread is at least 50% lower than symptomatic spread. So at the minimum it'll most likely reduce the spread by a bit. But more testing is needed to confirm.

 

[dogluva]

Not really rushing it. Generally the safety testing has been around the same amount of time. The rush was on approval, production and efficacy testing.

All that said, it's looking like the deaths weren't related to the vaccine so it doesn't look like it's a vaccine safety issue either.

Still scary stuff though the way it started and its progression......The relation of deaths to the safety of the actual vaccine is the biggie.......