Coronavirus.

[dogluva]

@utility half Have a read..I think you will find this interesting bud..

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Thank you for posting that. Makes interesting reading and goes into a depth that we certainly have not seen in articles written here. There is just so much that is unknown about the virus and as time goes by we learn new things. No doubt as the situation progresses we will in fact find that a lot of our observations are possibly flawed.

I go back to work on Tuesday and will be sharing my day with the 'little people' so I shall be practicing social distancing and zero contact plus copious amounts of hand washing and sanitising.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yep..I thought it’d interest you as it certainly goes a long away in realising that your concerns about the virus have definite merit.

This is the key part of that article:

Several studies from Europe and Asia have suggested that young children are less likely to get infected and to spread the virus. But most of those studies were small and flawed, said Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute.

The new study “is very carefully done, it’s systematic and looks at a very large population,” Dr. Jha said. “It’s one of the best studies we’ve had to date on this issue.”


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Early stages of the pandemic advice was made with what information was known and what data was available. Given the panic stations its pretty logical that early advice would be far from accurate.

But now that this study, with a load more data, has come out i still expect fuckwits to deny the available evidence

Thank you for posting that. Makes interesting reading and goes into a depth that we certainly have not seen in articles written here. There is just so much that is unknown about the virus and as time goes by we learn new things. No doubt as the situation progresses we will in fact find that a lot of our observations are possibly flawed.

I go back to work on Tuesday and will be sharing my day with the 'little people' so I shall be practicing social distancing and zero contact plus copious amounts of hand washing and sanitising.

Playing Devil's Advocate, I feel I need to point out that this study the article is referecing hasn't been peer reviewed and it's very much an early release.

It's very likely to be accurate based on what early reviews are saying about the paper, but as always I would suggest a modicum of restraint until it has been fully peer reviewed and officially published.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Playing Devil's Advocate, I feel I need to point out that this study the article is referecing hasn't been peer reviewed and it's very much an early release.

It's very likely to be accurate based on what early reviews are saying about the paper, but as always I would suggest a modicum of restraint until it has been fully peer reviewed and officially published.

I also hate to play devils advocate but the studies saying "children weren't transmitting covid19", that had small data sets that were obviously incomplete, peer reviewed?

 

[Dogna88]

I have two children. I can't afford them being home. I will still have to work and will be interacting with my children every day. My children will be forced to go to my parents (70+) everyday.

So instead of my vulnerable parents isolating. They will need to look after my children. Expose themselves more. Whats my other option? Quit my job, my job isnt a "work at home" occupation. Go on centrelink. I won't be able to afford my house payments. When will i find another job?

 

[CaptainJackson]

I have two children. I can't afford them being home. I will still have to work and will be interacting with my children every day. My children will be forced to go to my parents (70+) everyday.

So instead of my vulnerable parents isolating. They will need to look after my children. Expose themselves more. Whats my other option? Quit my job, my job isnt

I understand your predicament but just as you have that problem, my mates wife doesn't have her whole health and they don't want to send their daughter to school for fear of her catching it and passing it to her mum. However the government is forcing kids to go to school and it does not suit my mates family at all, especially given his wife's health status.

 

[Cook]

I have two children. I can't afford them being home. I will still have to work and will be interacting with my children every day. My children will be forced to go to my parents (70+) everyday.

So instead of my vulnerable parents isolating. They will need to look after my children. Expose themselves more. Whats my other option? Quit my job, my job isnt a "work at home" occupation. Go on centrelink. I won't be able to afford my house payments. When will i find another job?

Mate, I still go to work as in an essential service. I potentially work with 30 to 40 different workmates every week, close contact. All have children at different schools through out the Sydney metropolitan. There’s 40 schools in Sydney I’m potentially in contact with. It’s our life now, your paid to do a job and we do. I don’t feel vulnerable at all. My parents also help with our kids, same age bracket as yours. They wouldn’t have it any other way.

 

[Dogna88]

I understand your predicament but just as you have that problem, my mates wife doesn't have her whole health and they don't want to send their daughter to school for fear of her catching it and passing it to her mum. However the government is forcing kids to go to school and it does not suit my mates family at all, especially given his wife's health status.

So whats the solution? Make school optional?

 

[Mr 95%]

Thank you for posting that. Makes interesting reading and goes into a depth that we certainly have not seen in articles written here. There is just so much that is unknown about the virus and as time goes by we learn new things. No doubt as the situation progresses we will in fact find that a lot of our observations are possibly flawed.

I go back to work on Tuesday and will be sharing my day with the 'little people' so I shall be practicing social distancing and zero contact plus copious amounts of hand washing and sanitising.

My sister, a teacher too, goes back as well..just gotta do what you gotta do.. Please take care..

 

[CaptainJackson]

So whats the solution? Make school optional?

Possibly. But the fact is that schools are now turning out to also be a breeding ground and quite a dangerous breeding ground because children don't show symptoms.

 

[south of heaven]

Possibly. But the fact is that schools are now turning out to also be a breeding ground and quite a dangerous breeding ground because children don't show symptoms.

Pretty concerning, I thought the worst was behind us looks like it's the beginning of a long shit fight

 

[Dogna88]

Possibly. But the fact is that schools are now turning out to also be a breeding ground and quite a dangerous breeding ground because children don't show symptoms.

Its one of many breeding grounds. Shit i deal with 30+ people a day at work in an array of different environments. Sometimes all across the state. I touch 100s different items a day, including items in grocery stores when doing my shopping. I am a breeding ground. Multiply that by the 1000 people in my field. Condensed housing is another breeding ground. Just look at when schools were forced ti close last lockdown, i was driving past tje park next to bankstown sports club, heaps of children there instead.

The cost of not having the option of sending kids to school for those that need to can not be underestimated. Make school optional, if your friend doesn't want to send them there so be it. But let mine have the option of going, and getting an education whilst there. We arnt going to magically get rid of this virus. Full stop. We have to learn the live with it.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I also hate to play devils advocate but the studies saying "children weren't transmitting covid19", that had small data sets that were obviously incomplete, peer reviewed?

The study in the article Mr 95 shared and you quoted when responding

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

 

[CaptainJackson]

Its one of many breeding grounds. Shit i deal with 30+ people a day at work in an array of different environments. Sometimes all across the state. I touch 100s different items a day, including items in grocery stores when doing my shopping. I am a breeding ground. Multiply that by the 1000 people in my field. Condensed housing is another breeding ground. Just look at when schools were forced ti close last lockdown, i was driving past tje park next to bankstown sports club, heaps of children there instead.

The cost of not having the option of sending kids to school for those that need to can not be underestimated. Make school optional, if your friend doesn't want to send them there so be it. But let mine have the option of going, and getting an education whilst there. We arnt going to magically get rid of this virus. Full stop. We have to learn the live with it.

Or we take new zealands option, lock down for 4 weeks, put a freeze on repayments, get the government to give one off payments for those 4 weeks, close our borders and eradicate the virus in one hit.

But no we've got ideologues in our government

 

[Dogna88]

Or we take new zealands option, lock down for 4 weeks, put a freeze on repayments, get the government to give one off payments for those 4 weeks, close our borders and eradicate the virus in one hit.

But no we've got ideologues in our government

Reality is. Australia whilst similar to NZ. Has vast differences demographically and in the mentality of the people.

Are you confident NZ is and will be covid free forever? That they will have no community transmissions ever again? No second wave? Shit id say its a possibility.

But there is alot of unknowns to guarantee that. Alot to lose to guarantee that.

But say they have another second wave. Do you think the govt and financial institutions will afford another major lockdown without severely damaging the economy? How confident are you that the people will accept another full lockdown?

Alot of Aussies will not accept or comply with a full lockdown. And it cant be enforced.

 

[CaptainJackson]

The study in the article Mr 95 shared and you quoted when responding

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Point I'm making Hacky is that this study used data from January to may, previous studies had a smaller range of dates and hence a smaller data set.

Early stages all caution should have been taken (in regards lockdowns/shutdowns) until we had sufficient data sets.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Reality is. Australia whilst similar to NZ. Has vast differences demographically and in the mentality of the people.

Are you confident NZ is and will be covid free forever? That they will have no community transmissions ever again? No second wave? Shit id say its a possibility.

But there is alot of unknowns to guarantee that. Alot to lose to guarantee that.

But say they have another second wave. Do you think the govt and financial institutions will afford another major lockdown? How confident are you that the people will accept another full lockdown?

New Zealand had a mishap but since then, as of today, they have 25 cases and thats from immigration. It's caught at the border and dealt with at the border.

As far as guarantees, this is what people have to understand, theres no guarantees in a situation like this. However, now that the world is experienced in dealing with it, we will handle it better if we get to 0 cases and it starts again.

I.e lets say we eradicate it for a couple of months and then a case pops up, its much easier to lockdown and isolate that one location than the whole country.

 

[Dogna88]

New Zealand had a mishap but since then, as of today, they have 25 cases and thats from immigration. It's caught at the border and dealt with at the border.

As far as guarantees, this is what people have to understand, theres no guarantees in a situation like this. However, now that the world is experienced in dealing with it, we will handle it better if we get to 0 cases and it starts again.

I.e lets say we eradicate it for a couple of months and then a case pops up, its much easier to lockdown and isolate that one location than the whole country.

How are you going to enforce this lockdown?

I can tell you now. You wont get the same amount of compliance as the last time we locked down. The last 7or so days of the last lockdown showed me people couldnt be locked up. And the laws couldnt be enforced.

The govt has to compromise. Its easier to get compliance from people who arnt rebelling against the rules.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Alot of Aussies will not accept or comply with a full lockdown. And it cant be enforced

You mean selfish idiots?

This is how its spread again in Australia because of selfish idiots.

The fact people can't be considerate when out and about and also there's a part of the population who are fucking morons and think its a conspiracy, we have ourselves to blame and then sit here and point the finger at the state premiers who are trying to do their best to contain it.

Nor does it help by the massive misinformation campaign from news corpse

 

[CaptainJackson]

How are you going to enforce this lockdown?

I can tell you now. You wont get the same amount of compliance as the last time we locked down. The last 7or so days of the last lockdown showed me people couldnt be locked up. And the laws couldnt be enforced.

The govt has to compromise. Its easier to get compliance from people who arnt rebelling against the rules.

Because the scary thing is, there are initial studies showing that those who caught it before can catch it again, that immunity doesn't last long.

So lockdown to eradicate may be our only choice

 

[Dogna88]

Its all abour perspective and opinions. You can call them selfish idiots. It doesnt change anything.

The fact is you wont get 100% compliance. And as the virus drags on. The people will comply less and less.

Total eradication at this point is near unachievable. Not because of policy. But because you cant lockdown the majority of a population. They just won't accept it. The world is to globalised for Australia to be fully cut off from the world.

We have to compromises. And its my opinion that force closing school will 1) be absolutely chaotic for the economy in the long run (and with covid,we are in it for the long run) and 2) will force many people including me who will be fuked, to rebel out of anger and frustration