Climate Change

[Psycho Doggie]

2) we have the resources to become a renewable export powerhouse.

Massive opportunities on this front over the years, all long gone.

 

[Doogie]

Massive opportunities on this front over the years, all long gone.

Yep. And nearly 30 years later - absolutely nothing has changed.

Cabinet papers 1994-95: Keating’s climate policy grapples sound eerily familiar

Paul Keating’s government, faced with the prospect of international action on climate change, took steps to preserve the coal industry - a tactic that has been rebooted many times since.

theconversation.com

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I doubt it. I thought it was all about trade with China. They would still trade with us

Why would they trade coal from us when they don't need it?

 

[Natboy]

Why would they trade coal from us when they don't need it?

When won’t China need coal from us and what about everything else we sell them?

 

[TwinTurbo]

So I live in a long cul-de-sac but at the end of it, there's a mechanic with 3 kids with hotted up cars. These kids smash out of the street at 30-40km above the speed limit, its only a matter of time before they smash into someone or something.

So should I drive 30-40km above the speed limit as well? Would save me a few minutes in travel time. And I only drive in and out once a day. These kids are in and out multiple times per day.

How do I turn to them and tell them they need to slow down if I'm busting the speed limit?

This is not a difficult argument.

If only it were that simple, continuing your car example. Around 92% of the Indian population doesn‘t have a car, that‘s 1.3 billion people who have yet to own a car. China has around 900 million people who don’t own a car. In total that’s about the same as the current number of cars in the whole world.

No matter what the car is fuelled by, doubling the number of cars will have a total life effect on emissions that is impossible to mitigate. Then add fridges, washing machines, stoves and lights, that are just basic necessities, plus of course the other essentials like fresh water that has to be treated and pumped and food that has to be grown and transported.

That‘s why your 30/40 kph comparison is interesting, you have a car and 2.3 billion Indians and Chinese don’t. So using your comparison theory you would have to stop driving until they all have cars. Basically every single person in the world with a car currently should stop driving it until all of the Indians and Chineses have one too.


Always a Bulldog

 

[TwinTurbo]

Why would they trade coal from us when they don't need it?

When won’t China need coal from us and what about everything else we sell them?

China are building 100 new coal fired power stations this year, they need coal, more coal.

Always a Bulldog

 

[TwinTurbo]

Percentage of energy from renewables:

Australia = 32% Renewables
China = 51% Renewables

In 2023 China’s hydro renewable electricity generation was drastically reduced by the drought. Globally hydro electricity generation dropped by ~9% in late 2022/early 2023.

As with all renewables they can not guarantee consistent base load power generation.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Natboy]

China are building 100 new coal fired power stations this year, they need coal, more coal.

Always a Bulldog

Exactly. It just makes no sense we are being slugged massive power bills and closing our coal fired power stations down. We are a global laughing stock

 

[Memberberries]

Exactly. It just makes no sense we are being slugged massive power bills and closing our coal fired power stations down. We are a global laughing stock

Australia sucks.
Too many sheltered and bubble wrapped idiots who have always had the safety of their car, advising the rest of us how to live!

Should be the other way around!

 

[Doogie]

If only it were that simple, continuing your car example. Around 92% of the Indian population doesn‘t have a car, that‘s 1.3 billion people who have yet to own a car. China has around 900 million people who don’t own a car. In total that’s about the same as the current number of cars in the whole world.

No matter what the car is fuelled by, doubling the number of cars will have a total life effect on emissions that is impossible to mitigate. Then add fridges, washing machines, stoves and lights, that are just basic necessities, plus of course the other essentials like fresh water that has to be treated and pumped and food that has to be grown and transported.

That‘s why your 30/40 kph comparison is interesting, you have a car and 2.3 billion Indians and Chinese don’t. So using your comparison theory you would have to stop driving until they all have cars. Basically every single person in the world with a car currently should stop driving it until all of the Indians and Chineses have one too.


Always a Bulldog

This was a moral statement of why we should do something rather than sit back and do nothing. And the issue was doing the wrong thing by speeding, not whether or not the people at the end of the street should own a car.

So I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Unless you're trying to suggest that I should stop driving my car until all chinese/indians own a car because somehow I'm making a statement in relation to GHGs? Wouldn't my statement be counterproductive? Would I not be encouraging more GHG?

China also has 900M people in highly urbanised areas where car ownership is difficult in the extreme - as you have no where to park it. And China also has access to a exceptional public transport system. So most chinese don't need to have a car.

The average wage in India is USD $387/month. The average fuel price in India is USD $1.25/L. Compare that to Australia $7500/month and fuel say $2/L, how exactly do most Indians afford to have a car?

I'm not sure your comparison is valid with all due respect.

 

[Doogie]

China are building 100 new coal fired power stations this year, they need coal, more coal.

Always a Bulldog

Maybe this provides a more complete side of the story.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-new-coal-plants-set-become-costly-second-fiddle-renewables-2023-03-22/

Local politics overriding a national approach. Sounds familiar?

 

[Natboy]

Australia sucks.
Too many sheltered and bubble wrapped idiots who have always had the safety of their car, advising the rest of us how to live!

Should be the other way around!

It doesn’t suck but I’m finding myself more and more inclined to spend time out of the country. We are just going to woke and trying to please every other country

 

[Memberberries]

It doesn’t suck but I’m finding myself more and more inclined to spend time out of the country. We are just going to woke and trying to please every other country

That's why Australia sucks!

Used to be a decent country.
Started to decline with Kevin07!
Not completely his fault though since the global economy was on the brink of collapsing when he took over from old stuttering Johnny Coward!

 

[Hacky McAxe]

When won’t China need coal from us and what about everything else we sell them?

Probably about 50-100 years. But it'll be a slow progress. They'll slowly phase out more coal. They recently built new coal power stations but they're just designed to hold over until China transitions to renewables.

The other exports will still keep going to a certain degree. But they're only a small amount compared to coal.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

China are building 100 new coal fired power stations this year, they need coal, more coal.

Always a Bulldog

For now. They have committed to massive coal reduction in a short period of time. Which means over the next 30 years, reliance will drop drastically.

 

[Natboy]

Probably about 50-100 years. But it'll be a slow progress. They'll slowly phase out more coal. They recently built new coal power stations but they're just designed to hold over until China transitions to renewables.

The other exports will still keep going to a certain degree. But they're only a small amount compared to coal.

It sounds like a lot of what ifs. Why can’t we do the same as China then? What’s the rush for us considering how minute our emissions are?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

It sounds like a lot of what ifs. Why can’t we do the same as China then? What’s the rush for us considering how minute our emissions are?

Global politics. As I said, China is way ahead of us when it comes to renewable transition. So it makes us look bad.

 

[Natboy]

Global politics. As I said, China is way ahead of us when it comes to renewable transition. So it makes us look bad.

I wish our politicians would worry about us rather than global politics. This do as I say not as I do crap makes us look so pathetic

 

[Philistine]

I might start taking this climate change stuff a bit more seriously if the people who shout the loudest actually did something to indicate they believe what they are saying. Only a few weeks ago, at COP28, King Charles (how I hate typing that) was on his soap box, telling anybody who would listen that Armageddon was about to arrive, unless we all drastically change our behaviour. This, without a trace of self awareness, from the owner of one of the biggest carbon footprints in the World.

 

[Natboy]

I might start taking this climate change stuff a bit more seriously if the people who shout the loudest actually did something to indicate they believe what they are saying. Only a few weeks ago, at COP28, King Charles (how I hate typing that) was on his soap box, telling anybody who would listen that Armageddon was about to arrive, unless we all drastically change our behaviour. This, without a trace of self awareness, from the owner of one of the biggest carbon footprints in the World.

Exactly and our politicians fly around on private jets and are rarely in the country