Barrett (Attacking Genius) vs Ciraldo (Defensive Guru)

[1967]

Lafam, previous coaches at the club inherited worse rosters and at least had us competing.

There’s a whole bunch of people at any club who help a player’s development. I’m not convinced he had much to do with it. Just look at the way our players’ confidence and performance have fallen off a cliff as the year has gone on. That’s not exactly a hallmark of a good people manager. I think he’s rubbish. And signing him on for five years was an absolute scandal.

You’re welcome to your opinions, doesn’t mean they’re right though …. Opinions vary !

 

[Dogtime]

The hallmark of Pays tenure was that we'd start the year poorly but build as the season progressed. Of course others will say, we won more later in the year games under Pay once the season had effectively ended for many teams.
For me it's about how we look week to week. Under Pay I could see us having a go, and improving with familiarity. With Barrett and Ciraldo I see a playing group that's switched off as the year progressed as it became obvious we couldn't make the finals.
Maybe false hope has been given to the playing group by Ciraldo, Gould and fans. The way we are finishing this season is not inspiring.

 

[Dogtime]

We should've let CC go to Tigers. Not that we'd want Benji....but still.
Next year will be tough if drag queens under Flanagan and Tigers under Benji do better than us.

 

[Flanagun]

You’re welcome to your opinions, doesn’t mean they’re right though …. Opinions vary !

Never said my opinion is objective truth…. But I just don’t get how people can think conceding 30 plus ppg is ok.

 

[Dogtime]

We have had four coaches in quick succession .... the problems run deeper than coaching in my opinion.

A lack of playing talent has been the common denominator.

As a club we have recruited and produced poorly from within, even allowing for us having cap restraints ... the current coaching staff are bearing the brunt at present.

The club looks to be rectifying this. Our pathways are improving quickly.

It was never going to be a quick fix .... how can it be?

CC obviously has to be allowed to coach a team of his making ...not some team littered with ordinary players, who are also mentally scared from year after year of losing.

Anyone ever play in a team with five or six players not up to scratch?

I can't believe how reactionary people are.

As i mentioned in another post ... Kiks and Chrichton appear to rate CC.

Yeh I mean to say this list of recently ex Bulldogs players have been playing shit right?...proving your point about not having the cattle...let me see..
Meaney
R Smith
Cogger
Adam Idiot
Klemer
Hetherington
DWZ
Montoya
Cook
CHN....before his injury of course. At least we were lucky to keep Okky who was involved in the same blow up as CHN. Hahaha. Mark that down as an administrative win.
Before that....players we let go
Ennis
Jammer
Tolman....at least he could tackle

Moreover, I can't see that we've actually developed many of our current squad.
Name the local juniors...

So the churn doesn't develop culture....it's culture destroying. Why put myself out to help the guy standing next to me, he's most likely gone next year.
To say that that a coach isn't accountable unless he chooses his own roster is preposterous. With an average NRL coach tenure being around 4 to 5 years, what, is the coach only accountable in his final year?

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Yeh I mean to say this list of recently ex Bulldogs players have been playing shit right?...proving your point about not having the cattle...let me see..
Meaney
R Smith
Cogger
Adam Idiot
Klemer
Hetherington
DWZ
Montoya
Cook
CHN....before his injury of course. At least we were lucky to keep Okky who was involved in the same blow up as CHN. Hahaha. Mark that down as an administrative win.
Before that....players we let go
Ennis
Jammer
Tolman....at least he could tackle

Moreover, I can't see that we've actually developed many of our current squad.
Name the local juniors...

So the churn doesn't develop culture....it's culture destroying. Why put myself out to help the guy standing next to me, he's most likely gone next year.
To say that that a coach isn't accountable unless he chooses his own roster is preposterous. With an average NRL coach tenure being around 4 to 5 years, what, is the coach only accountable in his final year?

CC started off the season at a new club with a massive injury toll. Reed obviously burnt out along the way whilst others like King and Kiraz re entered the picture to play under strengh due to injury.
This season is abysmal and I expected better considering everything.
For my mind there have been concerns with Ciro but it would be unfair to judge him on this season.
End of next year will indicate whether he is the man for the job or not.

As for Pay. He left 2020 with something like 1 from nine wins. Was the year the 6 again was introduced. No other rule has changed the game for the worse, no other rule has widened the gap between the top and bottom sides. Assuming Pay would have us firing back end of this year after all our injuries is just assumption. Pays selections, game plans, rotation of the bench and lets not forget the lack of fitness in the team was just as much a concern as Baz or CC.

 

[Chris Harding]

100% there should be no excuses for leaking 30 points a game, but my point is when we beat Melbourne people started saying we played a weaker team, as you said teams get a run of injuries but players should still commit.
We beat Melbourne in Melbourne convincingly
What’s their excuse?
We started the year with 3 wins out of 5 I guess they where flukes too, and injuries after injuries we slowly started to lose by bigger margins.
Round 24 we had our strongest lineup and we didn’t know how to play.
Team looks deflated and don’t want to commit.

It's a mental thing. Coaches can't coach a team out of a losing mentality. A coach can teach tactics and support his players but he can't get into their thought processes. Winning is the way teams become confident, but if they have no winning attitude that's their issue to deal with.

 

[Chris Harding]

The nature of footy? Sometimes teams have a bad run with injuries, they should still be able to turn up and show more commitment than we have for most of the year in defence.

There is no excuse for the garbage we have served up under Ciraldo, lafam. Averaging over 30 points conceded per game from a so called defensive coach and still you guys defend him and say we have improved. The reality is we improved under Potter because he freed us up to play to our strengths. Ciraldo has had a few key inclusions added to his roster this year and we have still regressed from where we were under Mick. As for Tbaz, he is not someone you really want to draw comparisons with, but the one thing I will say for him is we lost a lot more close games under him, which shows we were at least competing, but probably lacked the experience to ice those close games. We have added a bit more experience now helping us to win the close games. The only downside is most of our games are not close because our defence is an embarrassment.

The most alarming thing, from my POV is we are getting worse as the season goes on despite having most of our players back. That is a surefire sign that our morale is shot. We are pretty much at full strength now....RFM should not even make the 17 on current form, Preston was our only significant out, on the weekend. It's pretty rare for a club to play a game without at least one player missing due to injury or suspension.

I don't know how the club has come to this.... leaking 30 plus points a game, getting dominated every week and people say we are improving. It's hard to comprehend how a once mighty club could sink so low.

I'm not saying that we are improving. In fact, I've voiced my frustration many times here on the Kennel fora.

What I am saying is that we need more patience to see whether the long term planning is working.

There are no quick fix halfbacks or forwards available who would come to the Dogs. Those quality players are thin on the ground and locked into their current clubs. Our only option is to foster home grown products, and that takes years.

Good players are maturing at around 30 years of age these days. Some of our green players will likely be our best units when they get a few years experience under their belt. Players like Cleary are exceptions, but look at the ages of the top halfbacks in the game. Toby Sexton may yet become a form halfback in the NRL, but it takes time, playing with the same team of players, for him to get there.

 

[wendog33]

We should've let CC go to Tigers. Not that we'd want Benji....but still.
Next year will be tough if drag queens under Flanagan and Tigers under Benji do better than us.

Will be apocalyptic!

 

[1967]

Never said my opinion is objective truth…. But I just don’t get how people can think conceding 30 plus ppg is ok.

Do you even know one fan that thinks conceding 30 ppg is ok ?

Damn you talk some [emoji90]

 

[Dognacious]

We should have thrown the cash at Wayne

He was always going back to where he came from (SE Qld) first chance he got. Can live in the same house and coach Dolphins, Broncos or Titans.

 

[Flanagun]

Do you even know one fan that thinks conceding 30 ppg is ok ?

Damn you talk some [emoji90]

I'm guessing a lot of you do, considering you aren't willing to hold the coach to account for it and keep making excuses for him.

 

[Flanagun]

I'm not saying that we are improving. In fact, I've voiced my frustration many times here on the Kennel fora.

What I am saying is that we need more patience to see whether the long term planning is working.

There are no quick fix halfbacks or forwards available who would come to the Dogs. Those quality players are thin on the ground and locked into their current clubs. Our only option is to foster home grown products, and that takes years.

Good players are maturing at around 30 years of age these days. Some of our green players will likely be our best units when they get a few years experience under their belt. Players like Cleary are exceptions, but look at the ages of the top halfbacks in the game. Toby Sexton may yet become a form halfback in the NRL, but it takes time, playing with the same team of players, for him to get there.

Yeah, I get that...and I'm not expecting miracles overnight. What I do expect is pride in the jersey and resolve in defence...and we are showing none of that unbder the pretender currently holding the clipboard. We have gone backwards, lafam. Looked so much better under Potter.

 

[Nasheed]

When Kevin Moore was a rookie coach and coach of the year in 09, he had the benefit of Noddy who was pretty much the on field coach. Plus we had a good mixture of youth and some old heads like Ryan, Patten, El Magic.

Broncos: Walters has Reynolds running the team for him.


Warriors: Webster has the experienced Shaun Johnston.


CC doesn't have that sort of luxury.

This is the club fault because the last few years has seen a youth obsession
How many times did I post against those articles and say they will be headless chickens if we don’t get experience

 

[1967]

I'm guessing a lot of you do, considering you aren't willing to hold the coach to account for it and keep making excuses for him.

I’ve always said you post some good material, but then you tend to go all drama Queen on certain topics, no one on here is happy with the team conceding 30 + a game, to say that anyone is, is a bit ridiculous.

Plus from what I’ve read most are willing to hold the coach to account, it’s just we’re fair, we see there are other factors that have contributed to the clubs circumstances this season and we’re realistic about it, I’ve always said it’s going to take time to balance out the bad contract signings and decisions Barrett made, I think Gould’s doing a good job of that where he can, we all know the player markets in a unique spot at the moment, so there’s that as well.

I can see the bigger picture, why Gould signed Ciraldo to 5 years, we’ll see him do a much better job next year and continue to get better as he strengthens the team that he wants and gets them playing his brand of football.

The sack Ciraldo, Sack Gould, sack Kourey club are unrealistic with their expectations, they’d complain that it took God 6 days to create the earth … wtf, why didn’t he get it done in 2 ???

They’ll be gone in a year or 2 when the teams winning and there’s nothing to whinge about !

 

[Flanagun]

I’ve always said you post some good material, but then you tend to go all drama Queen on certain topics, no one on here is happy with the team conceding 30 + a game, to say that anyone is, is a bit ridiculous.

Plus from what I’ve read most are willing to hold the coach to account, it’s just we’re fair, we see there are other factors that have contributed to the clubs circumstances this season and we’re realistic about it, I’ve always said it’s going to take time to balance out the bad contract signings and decisions Barrett made, I think Gould’s doing a good job of that where he can, we all know the player markets in a unique spot at the moment, so there’s that as well.

I can see the bigger picture, why Gould signed Ciraldo to 5 years, we’ll see him do a much better job next year and continue to get better as he strengthens the team that he wants and gets them playing his brand of football.

The sack Ciraldo, Sack Gould, sack Kourey club are unrealistic with their expectations, they’d complain that it took God 6 days to create the earth … wtf, why didn’t he get it done in 2 ???

They’ll be gone in a year or 2 when the teams winning and there’s nothing to whinge about !

View attachment 80037

How am I being a drama queen? I never said I expected Ciraldo to set the world on fire in his first year. I know the rebuild isn't easy and am generally a pretty patient person..... but it's not like we just aren't getting better. It's the fact we are getting worse I can't cop. Our defence has regressed big time under a so called defensive coach and that is a huge red flag. A caretaker coach had us performing much better last year with a roster that was even weaker and that is another huge red flag.

All I am saying is conceding 30 points per game is unacceptable and the coach is the one guy who needs to be held accountable for it. You actually agree the coach should be held to account, then in the same paragraph you are making more excuses for him. It's bizarre, lafam.

 

[Lynchpin]

I’ve always said you post some good material, but then you tend to go all drama Queen on certain topics, no one on here is happy with the team conceding 30 + a game, to say that anyone is, is a bit ridiculous.

Plus from what I’ve read most are willing to hold the coach to account, it’s just we’re fair, we see there are other factors that have contributed to the clubs circumstances this season and we’re realistic about it, I’ve always said it’s going to take time to balance out the bad contract signings and decisions Barrett made, I think Gould’s doing a good job of that where he can, we all know the player markets in a unique spot at the moment, so there’s that as well.

I can see the bigger picture, why Gould signed Ciraldo to 5 years, we’ll see him do a much better job next year and continue to get better as he strengthens the team that he wants and gets them playing his brand of football.

The sack Ciraldo, Sack Gould, sack Kourey club are unrealistic with their expectations, they’d complain that it took God 6 days to create the earth … wtf, why didn’t he get it done in 2 ???

They’ll be gone in a year or 2 when the teams winning and there’s nothing to whinge about !

View attachment 80037

Where's slide 6?
They've shot the donkey in the head, dined out on donkey meat, and are now complaining that the donkey just doesn't have the work ethic to keep moving?
That damned, lazy, inept donkey! (probably Covid).
Let's buy a thoroughbred racehorse next. Shoot it in the head also, and see if Horse meat tastes any better; then complain about the horse's work ethic...
...seems like we might be back a slide 1 in no time.

 

[1967]

How am I being a drama queen? I never said I expected Ciraldo to set the world on fire in his first year. I know the rebuild isn't easy and am generally a pretty patient person..... but it's not like we just aren't getting better. It's the fact we are getting worse I can't cop. Our defence has regressed big time under a so called defensive coach and that is a huge red flag. A caretaker coach had us performing much better last year with a roster that was even weaker and that is another huge red flag.

All I am saying is conceding 30 points per game is unacceptable and the coach is the one guy who needs to be held accountable for it. You actually agree the coach should be held to account, then in the same paragraph you are making more excuses for him. It's bizarre, lafam.

To answer your question, it’s a bit drama queenish to be saying most on here are happy for the team to be conceding 30 ppg, that’s just over the top not true Peter Allen glitter and sequence chit, plus you said most on here don’t hold the coach accountable, they do, but they also can see the bigger picture ..

We came out strong this season, everyone was discussing how much they’d improved in their defence and as a team, but even with those improvements it was obvious we still didn’t have a top 8 squad, that glaring fact, injuries, and depth found us out quickly, they’re not excuses, that’s just plain observation.

As I said, it was obvious we still weren’t a competitive top 8 team, certain players had to go, some were moved on mid season, we’ve gone backwards as players have lost interest and confidence after being tapped on the shoulder and told to look for new clubs, again not excuses, plain common sense and observation ..

Next year will be better, the year after we’ll start really competing, year after we’ll all be saying goodbye to the clown crew ..

 

[Flanagun]

To answer your question, it’s a bit drama queenish to be saying most on here are happy for the team to be conceding 30 ppg, that’s just over the top not true Peter Allen glitter and sequence chit, plus you said most on here don’t hold the coach accountable, they do, but they also can see the bigger picture ..

We came out strong this season, everyone was discussing how much they’d improved in their defence and as a team, but even with those improvements it was obvious we still didn’t have a top 8 squad, that glaring fact, injuries, and depth found us out quickly, they’re not excuses, that’s just plain observation.

As I said, it was obvious we still weren’t a top 8 team, certain players had to go, we’ve gone backwards as players have lost interest and confidence after being tapped on the shoulder and told to look for new clubs, again not excuses, plain common sense and observation ..

Next year will be better, the year after well start really competing, year after well all be saying goodbye to the clown crew ..

Sorry, but if you think making excuse after excuse in order to defend the coach is holding him to account, you are living in a fantasy world, lafam. That's the exact opposite of holding him to account.

If players are being tapped on the shoulder, that should be all the more motivation for them to play out of their skins to attract a new club. The fact is, it's not just the off contract players who aren't standing up in d. Those at the top set their standards and neither Ciraldo, nor Mahoney, who is among our worst defenders and missed another 10 tackles on the weekend, are setting them high enough.

There is absolutely no excuse for a team leaking 30 plus points a game and getting worse defensively as the season goes on. We have a demotivated and deflated playing group who are not buying into what Ciraldo is trying to do.....probably because he chops and changes team list like he's drawing names out of a hat and there is no clear vision of what he is trying to do for them to buy into. Not to mention his constant and often unnecessary team and positional changes are seriously messing up any chance the playing group has to build continuity.

Ciraldo is a truly horrendous footy coach and Mahoney is leading by example.... only problem is he's leading us off a cliff like lemmings.

Only clown crew we should be saying goodbye to are our coach and captain.

 

[1967]

As per usual you’re the master of spinning words ..

People aren’t making excuses after excuses for the coach … the majority have seen his faults, his bench, the way he’s used it, his selections, field placing and the larger majority are calling him out for it, but as I’ve said, they’re not gold fish focused, they see the bigger picture and circumstances on why “not all” but most of that’s happening ..

Yes if players have been tapped on the shoulder they should lift, doesn’t mean they do !

We looked disjointed in the trials, we lost our 1st game to Manly in ugly circumstances, we started getting injuries to key players and both team and coach got found out, players have been tapped, it’s been a chit year ..

Everyone focused on the bigger picture can see this years faults, but they’re willing to give Ciraldo next year to show us what he can do .. he’s had a long apprenticeship and a lot of success in the lower grades at Penrith with a committed team … whilst you’re just a man on a mission, and for as long as I can remember you’ve always been a glass half empty type of character with a lot of drama Queen in you … but that’s ok, it takes all sorts, I have my faults as well, problem is you harp on about it like it’s your life mission …

Give it a break … do you have anything else you can comment on other than trashing the same GM, Coach, Players and club ???