Barrett (Attacking Genius) vs Ciraldo (Defensive Guru)

1967

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Sorry, but if you think making excuse after excuse in order to defend the coach is holding him to account, you are living in a fantasy world, lafam. That's the exact opposite of holding him to account.

If players are being tapped on the shoulder, that should be all the more motivation for them to play out of their skins to attract a new club. The fact is, it's not just the off contract players who aren't standing up in d. Those at the top set their standards and neither Ciraldo, nor Mahoney, who is among our worst defenders and missed another 10 tackles on the weekend, are setting them high enough.

There is absolutely no excuse for a team leaking 30 plus points a game and getting worse defensively as the season goes on. We have a demotivated and deflated playing group who are not buying into what Ciraldo is trying to do.....probably because he chops and changes team list like he's drawing names out of a hat and there is no clear vision of what he is trying to do for them to buy into. Not to mention his constant and often unnecessary team and positional changes are seriously messing up any chance the playing group has to build continuity.

Ciraldo is a truly horrendous footy coach and Mahoney is leading by example.... only problem is he's leading us off a cliff like lemmings.

Only clown crew we should be saying goodbye to are our coach and captain.
A bit more perspective on that bigger picture I keep mentioning, and you keep ignoring, this is whats going on throughout the whole comp at the moment … both Gould & Ciraldo know what’s needed, unfortunately there’s no magic wand though …

Image1692846150.125669.jpg
 

Flanagun

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A bit more perspective on that bigger picture I keep mentioning, and you keep ignoring, this is whats going on throughout the whole comp at the moment … both Gould & Ciraldo know what’s needed, unfortunately there’s no magic wand though …

View attachment 80046
I am well aware that the cupboard is a bit bare when it comes to recruitment. That does not mean we should not realistically expect more commitment in defence. Not sure why you are arguing a point I am not even challenging with me. We can and have defended a lot better with similar or even thinner rosters. And why are we letting players like Waddell - who gets through a lot of work and makes good metres every week - if there is nobody to replace him with?
 

1967

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I am well aware that the cupboard is a bit bare when it comes to recruitment. That does not mean we should not realistically expect more commitment in defence. Not sure why you are arguing a point I am not even challenging with me. We can and have defended a lot better with similar or even thinner rosters. And why are we letting players like Waddell - who gets through a lot of work and makes good metres every week - if there is nobody to replace him with?
It’s been spoken about many times that Ciraldo is trying to get the team to attack and defend under the structures he wants them to play under, the ones who haven’t bought in or don’t get it, are more than likely the ones being moved on, it’s tough to defend as a committed team & go the extra mile to win games when quite a big portion of the squad are leaving in a few months or weeks and have checked out already .. if they weren’t getting it when under contract they’re certainly not going to care when they know they’re leaving … we’ve been over this !!

Can you please post the link where it’s confirmed that Waddell is being let go … or is that unconfirmed drama Queen stuff again ? … just because he hasn’t been re-signed yet doesn’t mean he won’t, so why bother with that until you know for sure !

Again, you spend to much time looking at the smaller picture and the club from the outside in.

Many of us try to understand the club from the inside out, the bigger picture !!

I couldn’t see you being much of a long term logistics person, more a only what’s happening now and today person.
 

Flanagun

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It’s been spoken about many times that Ciraldo is trying to get the team to attack and defend under the structures he wants them to play under, the ones who haven’t bought in or don’t get it, are more than likely the ones being moved on, it’s tough to defend as a committed team & go the extra mile to win games when quite a big portion of the squad are leaving in a few months or weeks and have checked out already .. if they weren’t getting it when under contract they’re certainly not going to care when they know they’re leaving … we’ve been over this !!

Can you please post the link where it’s confirmed that Waddell is being let go … or is that unconfirmed drama Queen stuff again ? … just because he hasn’t been re-signed yet doesn’t mean he won’t, so why bother with that until you know for sure !

Again, you spend to much time looking at the smaller picture and the club from the outside in.

Many of us try to understand the club from the inside out, the bigger picture !!

I couldn’t see you being much of a long term logistics person, more a only what’s happening now and today person.
Can you elaborate on these so called complex structures Ciraldo is supposedly trying to put in place, or are you just belching gas out of your hope hole?

Rugby league is a simple game, lafam....it doesn't need to be overly complicated with needlessly complex structures...especially when it comes to teams who are still learning to crawl. It all starts with the basics, none of which we are doing well. Stopping a team from scoring tries is not rocket science...things like line speed, knowing when to slide, not leaving gaping holes in the middle of the field and not letting teams repeatedly score soft barge over tries are basic building blocks of any good defence.

Blaming the players is a cop out....especially when a lot of the biggest offenders are not off contract to begin with.

I bet you'd have made exactly the same arguments about Barrett a few years ago...saying our attack may look clunky now, but it's because he is working on structures that are much more complex and just wait until it clicks.... only it didn't click with TBaz....things just got worse as our players got more confused. The same thing we have seen happen with Ciraldo as the season has progressed.

If a team of professional athletes is struggling to understand a system after a full off season and most of a regular season, chances are that system is too complex.... and making so many needless team and positional changes is only going to make their job harder.

You keep repeating this line that I am not a long term thinker, but that's not true. I am a big picture type guy and I don't expect instant gratification. I am just not willing to blame everything on departing players, don't buy into the rhetoric that the team needs to get worse before it gets better and think the first step in planning for the future should be identifying and removing road blocks, not adding more of them. Ciraldope is a road block. I also don't believe in repeating mistakes and see so many similarities between Barrett and Ciraldo it is uncanny.

And don't assume you are speaking for the majority of the forum. Judging from the comments, I'd say the majority of fans are very underwhelmed by what Ciraldope and the team have achieved tis year, and far from excited over the direction this team seems to be headed in.

When Gus first arrived here he said it wouldn't take as long for us to achieve success as it took Penrith, and now he has completely changed the narrative. Another huge red flag. Either he didn't properly assess the situation when he signed on to do the job, or he is buying time for a coach he appointed who is badly underperforming in a bid to save face. Whatever the case may be, the change in messaging is alarming.

I'm all for reestablishing our pathways, I'm in 100 percent agreement with Gus on that point. But we still need to make the right moves in the short term to ensure the current roster is playing to its potential and that talented kids who do come up through the ranks here will be developed properly in order to make them the best players they can be. I am yet to see any evidence that Ciraldo is the right guy to oversee such an immense project.
 
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1967

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Again the master of twisting words, where did I say he’s trying to get them to play complex structures, more drama queen stuff ?

From everything I’ve read he just wants them attacking and defending the way he wants them to, I can only guess it’s probably exactly what he taught the young kids coming through the grades at Penrith that won him his premiership with them, which makes sense as they’re the best defenders in the league, it’s not happening, so some obviously can’t or don’t get it come game day ..

As for the rest … I’m bored going over the same stuff with you ..
 

Flanagun

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Again the master of twisting words, where did I say he’s trying to get them to play complex structures, more drama queen stuff ?

From everything I’ve read he just wants them attacking and defending the way he wants them to, I can only guess it’s probably exactly what he taught the young kids coming through the grades at Penrith that won him his premiership with them, which makes sense as they’re the best defenders in the league, it’s not happening, so some obviously can’t or don’t get it come game day ..

As for the rest … I’m bored going over the same stuff with you ..
If Ciraldope offered to sell you a bridge, I'd give unbackable odds of you buying it.

If "the way he wants us to defend" is leaving gaping holes in the middle of the field and letting in soft barge over tries, he's doing a bang up job lololol
 

1967

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If Ciraldope offered to sell you a bridge, I'd give unbackable odds of you buying it.

If "the way he wants us to defend" is leaving gaping holes in the middle of the field and letting in soft barge over tries, he's doing a bang up job lololol
As I originally mentioned, no one’s happy about it, but it is unfortunately what it is for now, can only wait until next season and see if things click for him with a team that has more players in it that he’s chosen, I don’t feel recruitments finished yet so let’s see what they have planned … if come round 10/15 next season nothings changed, grab your flail and pitchfork and have at it ..

Tell me more about this bridge though .. sounds like it could be a solid investment, is it in the city, does it collect a toll from every person who drives across it, is it in good condition or does it need work, do you have any due diligence for me to go over ??
 

Flanagun

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As I originally mentioned, no one’s happy about it, but it is unfortunately what it is for now, can only wait until next season and see if things click for him with a team that has more players in it that he’s chosen, I don’t feel recruitments finished yet so let’s see what they have planned … if come round 10/15 next season nothings changed, grab your flail and pitchfork and have at it ..

Tell me more about this bridge though .. sounds like it could be a solid investment, is it in the city, does it collect a toll from every person who drives across it, is it in good condition or does it need work, do you have any due diligence for me to go over ??
If Ciraldope is building it, my guess is it is made of paddlopop sticks and leads to nowhere.
 

1967

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If Ciraldope is building it, my guess is it is made of paddlopop sticks and leads to nowhere.
Yea sorry, I don’t invest in self motivated grudges, especially short sighted ones, I invest for long term returns.
 
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Flanagun

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Yea sorry, I don’t invest self motivated grudges, especially short sighted ones.
Come on, I am being pretty nice to you considering all the thinly veiled insults you are throwing my way. Who is to say my arguments are self motivated? The truth is you have a problem accepting opinions which differ from your own.
 

1967

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Come on, I am being pretty nice to you considering all the thinly veiled insults you are throwing my way. Who is to say my arguments are self motivated? The truth is you have a problem accepting opinions which differ from your own.
Have to agree, you have played nice, but I also know the reasons behind that, so that topics a bit mute.

I’m used to people disagreeing with my opinions, so that’s not a problem, it’s a big part of what I do for a living, but it does needs to be logical and make sense at the end of the conversation ..

What makes your argument self motivated is how hard you push it, it’s like your life mission, there’s no grey areas, there’s no acknowledgment that there might be more to what you comment on or see ..

The old ‘she doth protest to much, methinks” comes to mind ..

Nothing against you personally, I just have a bad habit of defending what’s real & fair .. always have and sometimes to the detriment of my own good ..

I respect your opinions though .. just maybe drop the melodramatic parts ..
 

albatross

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A bit more perspective on that bigger picture I keep mentioning, and you keep ignoring, this is whats going on throughout the whole comp at the moment … both Gould & Ciraldo know what’s needed, unfortunately there’s no magic wand though …

View attachment 80046
Gus explaining why we bought an ageing SST.

Whatever CC is good at technically, he's not able to motivate the players to play to their potential. I think any first year coach, even if they've pretty much failed like CC, deserves a second off season, but not much more if they don't improve the team and especially the effort.
 

1967

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Gus explaining why we bought an ageing SST.

Whatever CC is good at technically, he's not able to motivate the players to play to their potential. I think any first year coach, even if they've pretty much failed like CC, deserves a second off season, but not much more if they don't improve the team and especially the effort.
I’d love to pinch Cartwright away from Broncos to put beside CC, he has a huge job ahead of him & I believe he needs an experienced older head beside him to assist him with it.

Broncos have gone from strength to strength since putting Cartwright next to Walters & buying an older experienced 7 in Reynolds ..

Manly haven’t been anywhere near as good since losing Cartwright … we need someone of his experience & influence in the coaching squad.
 

ILiveForDib

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T Baz knows how to go to Penrith and win. With us we went there played a good first half and leaked late second half. Probably the only game plan he has that works.
 

albatross

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I’d love to pinch Cartwright away from Broncos to put beside CC, he has a huge job ahead of him & I believe he needs an experienced older head beside him to assist him with it.

Broncos have gone from strength to strength since putting Cartwright next to Walters & buying an older experienced 7 in Reynolds ..

Manly haven’t been anywhere near as good since losing Cartwright … we need someone of his experience & influence in the coaching squad.
Yeah I reckon someone like Carty would help, but we need a real hard ass in there somewhere. Looks like CC's surrounded himself with clones of himself and he needs something else. Did Willy and Bobcat stay involved through the year or were they just there for pre-season? They were getting a lot of media at the start and seemed to be making a difference.
 

The DoggFather

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If you combine those 2 clowns footy intellect they still would be just an assistant.
 

1967

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Yeah I reckon someone like Carty would help, but we need a real hard ass in there somewhere. Looks like CC's surrounded himself with clones of himself and he needs something else. Did Willy and Bobcat stay involved through the year or were they just there for pre-season? They were getting a lot of media at the start and seemed to be making a difference.
I was at a function in Parramatta a few years ago when Barrett was head coach of Manly, they were playing Parra that same day and the team had their pre game meeting in the function room beside us.

I had the privilege of watching the way the whole team interacted with each other outside the room for about an hour and a half while they waited for everyone to turn up, they were mucking around, joking, laughing, ripping each other off etc. as blokes do.

When Barrett turned up it was just like he was one of the players, they comfortably ripped into him as well cracked jokes and carried on.

When Carty turned up everything changed and went into business mode, the change in body language was amazing, no more snickering mucking around or joking.

When it was time to go for the team walk, Barrett struggled to get them going, when Carty walked out the room they followed and got motivated.

Was plain as day who the boss was, who had the players attention and respect …

I think we’re missing that in our team at the moment, we need a Michael Hagan, Matthew Elliot, Carty type hard man beside CC that has experience and runs on the board as a mentor.

It’s no coincidence that Broncos started playing better footy and climbing the ladder again when Carty & Reynolds turned up.

We really could use an off field and on field leader ..

Willy and Bobcat still there but they just do their job I think.
 
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Kung fu man

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A bit more perspective on that bigger picture I keep mentioning, and you keep ignoring, this is whats going on throughout the whole comp at the moment … both Gould & Ciraldo know what’s needed, unfortunately there’s no magic wand though …

View attachment 80046
I wonder who will develope them ? send them to the Dolphins for a holiday
 
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