Another shooting 27 dead

[CaptainJackson]

I was talking about people from the left directly calling Shapiro a nazi.

I understand that point, I can't be bothered going back to my post coz it's a page back lol but I was saying it's become a thing now that whoever doesn't agree with the left they're labelled either a nazi or a bigot. And it's ridiculous that a lot from the left more so the extreme left like ANTIFA calling Shapiro a nazi.

Also why are you stressed you can't comment here lol it's just a forum bro, you should be instead stressing about organising your wedding since gay marriage got voted yes haha

No actually you said I called shapiro a Nazi Not even a fascist.

My main point in allowing a Nazi to be punched is because there are major incident in world history where that was the only option left to deal with these types of sick twisted ideologies, e.g. the American civil war (which the right wing is trying to change that it was about cotton and not slavery), ww2 (which again the right wing are trying to change that Hitler was a socialist even though the same right wing love hitler)

That's the point realist, I'm being realistic about the situation, words or peaceful attempts haven't been successful in these extreme situations. You watch Venezuela, that's going to descend into war and be sorted out through violence.

And the other point is Nazis aren't being hated because they're white, they're being hated because of what they'd like to do to other ethnicities

 

[Hacky McAxe]

My main point in allowing a Nazi to be punched is because there are major incident in world history where that was the only option left to deal with these types of sick twisted ideologies, e.g. the American civil war (which the right wing is trying to change that it was about cotton and not slavery), ww2 (which again the right wing are trying to change that Hitler was a socialist even though the same right wing love hitler)

I get this completely but I still don't think the incidents are comparable. The Civil War happened because people were being oppressed and tortured. They were being physically forced to work without pay then beating and killed if they didn't follow orders. WW2 happened because one side was physically torturing and killing people. Actually, technically the Brits and Aussies only entered the war because the Germans were invading other territories and the Americans only joined the war because the Japs made the mistake of bombing them. The allies didn't even know about the atrocities until the war was almost over.

But back to the point. In each instance people were being tortured and killed. You can't say that it's comparable to punch a guy that is saying hurtful words. If they break the law then go after them. Arrest them. Heck, if a guy starts attacking gay people then beat the crap out of him. But you can't just say "If I don't punch this random guy then Hitler will happen"

That's the point realist, I'm being realistic about the situation, words or peaceful attempts haven't been successful in these extreme situations. You watch Venezuela, that's going to descend into war and be sorted out through violence.

I have no doubt this will happen. It is already happening and it'll only get worse. Their currency is so crap that they no longer count money. They weigh it. You literally have to take a large sack of money in to the store to buy milk.

But punching people won't help there either. That will just ignite the tension that's already there. What Venezuela need is a new government, aid and development teams. They need people to have an interest in the country and a real willingness to help the country emerge from their crisis.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I get this completely but I still don't think the incidents are comparable. The Civil War happened because people were being oppressed and tortured. They were being physically forced to work without pay then beating and killed if they didn't follow orders. WW2 happened because one side was physically torturing and killing people. Actually, technically the Brits and Aussies only entered the war because the Germans were invading other territories and the Americans only joined the war because the Japs made the mistake of bombing them. The allies didn't even know about the atrocities until the war was almost over.

But back to the point. In each instance people were being tortured and killed. You can't say that it's comparable to punch a guy that is saying hurtful words. If they break the law then go after them. Arrest them. Heck, if a guy starts attacking gay people then beat the crap out of him. But you can't just say "If I don't punch this random guy then Hitler will happen"

I take your point that WWII we didn't know about the atrocities until the end of the war.

But however, let's not hide this shit that white supremacists and neo-nazi wannabes have this peaceful ethnic segregation in my mind. That's being dishonest mate, their top selling book is about a national civil war in the US with the white man coming out on top.

There's been countless arrests in the US and Australia of these types.

They're on the radar of organisations such as the FBI, ASIO, AFP for terrorist related activities.

So let's not pretend that they have peaceful means to an end as their strategy.

I have no doubt this will happen. It is already happening and it'll only get worse. Their currency is so crap that they no longer count money. They weigh it. You literally have to take a large sack of money in to the store to buy milk.

But punching people won't help there either. That will just ignite the tension that's already there. What Venezuela need is a new government, aid and development teams. They need people to have an interest in the country and a real willingness to help the country emerge from their crisis.

That's the ideal scenario you describe, however humans are emotional beings and do not always follow logical, rational processes. This goes as much for the side reacting as it does for the instigators. Both sides don't follow logical, rational processes.

And again, let's not mix up my views, my views are pointed at the ring leader nazis, the outer rim of people are people who are frustrated with the system and are just looking for a vent to vent. These people can be stopped/changed with debates, not all but some.

However the ring leaders? punch them in the head, send them back under their rocks. And don't give me this speech about freedom of speech and ideas, we have a racial and sexual discrimination act, we don't talk it out, we convict people. We have these people, like extremist muslim types, on terror watch lists of the AFP and ASIO.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I take your point that WWII we didn't know about the atrocities until the end of the war.

But however, let's not hide this shit that white supremacists and neo-nazi wannabes have this peaceful ethnic segregation in my mind. That's being dishonest mate, their top selling book is about a national civil war in the US with the white man coming out on top.

There's been countless arrests in the US and Australia of these types.

They're on the radar of organisations such as the FBI, ASIO, AFP for terrorist related activities.

So let's not pretend that they have peaceful means to an end as their strategy.

I'm not denying that at all. Anyone who actually represents themselves as a Nazi or a Neo-nazi will most likely have some plans for violence. There are some white supremacists that are still arseholes but aren't necessarily violent. It's those ones that will actually benefit from being punched in the face 'cause they'll go straight to the media and say "this guy who was named after an ancient navigation tool headbutted me", or worse. They'll retaliate and the violence will build.

That's the ideal scenario you describe, however humans are emotional beings and do not always follow logical, rational processes. This goes as much for the side reacting as it does for the instigators. Both sides don't follow logical, rational processes.

And again, let's not mix up my views, my views are pointed at the ring leader nazis, the outer rim of people are people who are frustrated with the system and are just looking for a vent to vent. These people can be stopped/changed with debates, not all but some.

However the ring leaders? punch them in the head, send them back under their rocks. And don't give me this speech about freedom of speech and ideas, we have a racial and sexual discrimination act, we don't talk it out, we convict people. We have these people, like extremist muslim types, on terror watch lists of the AFP and ASIO.

Yep. But we have laws for that. We don't punch people in the face 'cause it's illegal. If they come out and verbally bash people then they can be charged under Australian law. Punching them in the head won't help anyone other than making some Antifa person think of themselves as a hero. It's just encouraging violent culture.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I'm not denying that at all. Anyone who actually represents themselves as a Nazi or a Neo-nazi will most likely have some plans for violence. There are some white supremacists that are still arseholes but aren't necessarily violent. It's those ones that will actually benefit from being punched in the face 'cause they'll go straight to the media and say "this guy who was named after an ancient navigation tool headbutted me", or worse. They'll retaliate and the violence will build.




Yep. But we have laws for that. We don't punch people in the face 'cause it's illegal. If they come out and verbally bash people then they can be charged under Australian law. Punching them in the head won't help anyone other than making some Antifa person think of themselves as a hero. It's just encouraging violent culture.

@Hacky McAxe And @utility half I'll close this off by saying I COMPLETELY understand the non violence policy you guys are putting forward, COMPLETELY.

It's just my personal belief that the ring leaders of these type of groups only understand the talk of a punch to the head. And that no other means will diminish their public appearances or recruitment abilities.

 

[Realist90]

@Hacky McAxe And @utility half I'll close this off by saying I COMPLETELY understand the non violence policy you guys are putting forward, COMPLETELY.

It's just my personal belief that the ring leaders of these type of groups only understand the talk of a punch to the head. And that no other means will diminish their public appearances or recruitment abilities.

The issue with that is, people from the right can argue and justify punching ANTIFA leaders in the head to stop them from preaching their socially acceptable bigoted and intolerant views. Hence picking and choosing and having radical views never solves anything.

I think you and everyone including myself should probably stop worrying about what's happening in America or wherever and focus on bettering our own selves? And not be offended for people who aren't asking to be offended for.

Food for thought