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Flanagun

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I don't agree with this mate, simply because racism, homophobia, religious discrimination, sexism, etc has always been part of the conservative playbook, just not as open as what trump has made it, so I don't think a minority of extremists have brought down the GOP, especially when there's been 74 million votes for Trump, which is clearly a larger number than his hardcore base

If their economic policies were oh so successful and such a glorious strategy, and they had proved over and over and over again that they were brilliant economic managers (same applies to Australia), then there would be no need for their major talking points to consist of that evil bigotry above.

Lets go back to 2016, put in a hypothetical situation and lets say Ted Cruze won the GOP primaries instead of Trump (and I'd consider Ted Cruze to be an average politician with average GOP beliefs). Ted Cruze is a racist, religious extremist, homophobic, sexist piece of shit. He never would have said those things loud enough nor cross a line (the way trump has) as he is a seasoned politician. But does that mean those things don't exist as part of GOP strategy (just because he won't be as outlandish as Trump)? Surely instead of using divisive language, he'd concentrate on economic management/prosperity right? fuck no. Because Obama (and Bill Clinton before him) had Republicans beaten 1000x over when it came to economic management.

Furthermore, one has to look into the divisive language/policies that Nixon (Nixon's plea to racist southern Democrats to switch allegiance to the Republicans) and Reagan used, again this is not something Trump created within the GOP base, it has always existed and been used, however as seasoned politicians they didn't step over a certain line to not make it too obvious (otherwise it becomes an attacking point for Democrats).

For FOX news to say the outlandish shit that it does, media laws had to be changed. Those media laws weren't changed under trump, nor a decade ago, nor two decades ago. We're heading back to the days of Reagan and Nixon for those media laws to change, so that FOX could become the lying piece of shit network it is.

For me, conservatives need to take a long hard look at themselves, Trump did not start this, he just blew the top off something that was always there.
The Democrats are just as complicit in creating this political storm. They stopped championing the working class and those living below the poverty line long ago and this has only made the bigoted dog whistling of the GOP and Trump in particular, more effective. It’s not ok to use minorities as scapegoats, but less people would be looking for others to blame if they didn’t face so many preventable problems.

The Clintons, Obama, Pelosi and co’s complicity in helping to create this hyper toxic political climate can’t be overstated either. They are all elitist socio political vandals and when an honest politician does come along to try to put out the fire, they are chewed up and spat out by the oligarchs who created this tinder box.
 
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DinkumDog

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The GOP embraced a complete narcissist child, now let them deal with the consequences. If he rips that party apart it will be a thing of beauty to watch.
What’s worse to me is even since the election loss no-one other than Romney has been willing to break ranks - so either they’ve also drunk the kool aid or there’s a culture of fear which is probably even worse. I think this sign just outside DC sums up the GOP nicely:
69C3BFDF-062D-4A48-A02C-A772E9855ED6.jpeg
 

DinkumDog

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I don't agree with this mate, simply because racism, homophobia, religious discrimination, sexism, etc has always been part of the conservative playbook, just not as open as what trump has made it, so I don't think a minority of extremists have brought down the GOP, especially when there's been 74 million votes for Trump, which is clearly a larger number than his hardcore base

If their economic policies were oh so successful and such a glorious strategy, and they had proved over and over and over again that they were brilliant economic managers (same applies to Australia), then there would be no need for their major talking points to consist of that evil bigotry above.

Lets go back to 2016, put in a hypothetical situation and lets say Ted Cruze won the GOP primaries instead of Trump (and I'd consider Ted Cruze to be an average politician with average GOP beliefs). Ted Cruze is a racist, religious extremist, homophobic, sexist piece of shit. He never would have said those things loud enough nor cross a line (the way trump has) as he is a seasoned politician. But does that mean those things don't exist as part of GOP strategy (just because he won't be as outlandish as Trump)? Surely instead of using divisive language, he'd concentrate on economic management/prosperity right? fuck no. Because Obama (and Bill Clinton before him) had Republicans beaten 1000x over when it came to economic management.

Furthermore, one has to look into the divisive language/policies that Nixon (Nixon's plea to racist southern Democrats to switch allegiance to the Republicans) and Reagan used, again this is not something Trump created within the GOP base, it has always existed and been used, however as seasoned politicians they didn't step over a certain line to not make it too obvious (otherwise it becomes an attacking point for Democrats).

For FOX news to say the outlandish shit that it does, media laws had to be changed. Those media laws weren't changed under trump, nor a decade ago, nor two decades ago. We're heading back to the days of Reagan and Nixon for those media laws to change, so that FOX could become the lying piece of shit network it is.

For me, conservatives need to take a long hard look at themselves, Trump did not start this, he just blew the top off something that was always there.
All good mate. Much of what you say is true - I wasn’t suggesting it began with Trump, he just made it worse. Drain the swamp: he added more toxins than ever.

Of course rusted on GOP’s like McConnell are equally dangerous and complicit. Then you get those who were as weak as water like Paul Ryan. It seems the noble politician is increasingly rare, chewed up and spat out by the machine - it exists on both sides - which is why I personally don’t have any political allegiance, the lessor of two evils (or idiots) usually has to suffice. Some call that apathetic but to me it’s just a reality given the many thieves and liars in public office.

As I once heard: ‘It isn’t about doing good anymore, it’s about being here’. Shame.

As for the 74m votes well yes, that is disturbing, though I think a good chunk would simply be rusted on GOP voters who’ll never vote for anyone else and won’t hear a bad word about their preferred party. Same happens in Australia.

At the rate things are going my t-shirt is still relevant. It reads: Tony Abbott, Prime Minister 2013-1950. Sigh.
 
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DinkumDog

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I’m sure not all republican voters are bigots, but the Elliott hater is right, the party has stood on a platform of thinly veiled bigotry for a long time and thst is what has helped to create this trump monster.... along with fucking Democ(rats) like the Clintons, Pelosi, Obama et all who have disenfranchised large sections of their base by doing nothing substantial to support those below the poverty line. Both parties are completely broken and respkndibjj OK e for the absolute clusterfuck that is US politics in the 2-at century. They are all responsible.

But you are right that the minority has ruined it, because the elites of both parties govern for themselves and not the public.
Agree it’s both sides mate.
Trump just had a particularly bad stench.
Ain’t just America though.
Just about everywhere is the same.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Ha, get this: just spoke to a mate who lives in DC.
The Trumptards marched in DC on Saturday.

That nutter Nick Fuentes addressed the Trumptards, saying: ‘We are going to destroy the GOP’ (for its failure to keep Trump in power)

Trumptards chant: ‘Destroy the GOP! Destroy the GOP!’

They’re now turning on each other.
The circus rolls on.
1607842736626.png
 

Roll the Bones

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What’s worse to me is even since the election loss no-one other than Romney has been willing to break ranks - so either they’ve also drunk the kool aid or there’s a culture of fear which is probably even worse. I think this sign just outside DC sums up the GOP nicely:
View attachment 19288
I know exactly where that sign is, it's on the George Washington Parkway, which is a really nice drive btw. When I lived over there in the DC area, I drove past that sign a lot, and it never failed to make me laugh. What's the term? Oxymoron?
 

CaptainJackson

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The Democrats are just as complicit in creating this political storm. They stopped championing the working class and those living below the poverty line long ago and this has only made the bigoted dog whistling of the GOP and Trump in particular, more effective. It’s not ok to use minorities as scapegoats, but less people would be looking for others to blame if they didn’t face so many preventable problems.

The Clintons, Obama, Pelosi and co’s complicity in helping to create this hyper toxic political climate can’t be overstated either. They are all elitist socio political vandals and when an honest politician does come along to try to put out the fire, they are chewed up and spat out by the oligarchs who created this tinder box.
Matey can we please stop this. Please stop searching for the middle road and "compromise", it's the biggest load of bullshit.

In no way what so ever am I painting the Democrats as angels, I'm still pissed they selected Hillary over Bernie. The Dems are clearly centre right (economically) and a lot of hot air socially, before the vote counting finished their "moderates" went out on an all attack on their "progressives" and blamed them for the lack of Senate seats. So I'm not going to sit here and say they're angels in anyway, but the corruption and vileness of the parties is VASTLY different.

It's not too dissimilar to our political landscape, for a long time Labor went centre right and started copying Liberal policies (e.g. border control with asylum seekers, Alabanese's capitulation for tax cuts to corporates). Bill Shorten actually put a vision in for Australia and where he wanted Australia to head towards, what did Morrsicum do? Smoke and mirrors and our media were compliant in scummo's marketing bullshit.

But back to this "middle of the road/compromise" bullshit, Eddie Obeid, Peter Slipper, Sam Dastyari, Craig Thompson look at the outcomes of those scandals/incidents, now compare that to multiple scandals of conservatives Angus Taylor, Matt Canavan, George Christensen, Bronwyn Bishop, Peter Duttons many many fuck ups, Stuart Roberts, Christian Porter, Barnaby Joyce, Gladys Liu, Scott Morrison, Greg Hunt, Craig Kelly, Susan Ley, Joe Hockey, Tony Abbott, Tim Wilson, Eric Abetz, Michaelia Cash, every single one of them have scandals if not worse, just as bad as the 4 I mentioned above who were forced to resign or had charges brought against them.

(as a note for others reading this, if you follow politics, you would have knowledge of the scandals concerning EACH OF THE MINISTERS/SENATORS I NAMED AND NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM COPPED ENOUGH CRITICISM FROM THE MEDIA NOR WERE FORCED TO STEP DOWN. I'm also forgetting the ministers name for the sports rorts scandal, it was a female minister but scummo was directly involved in that too.

So let's leave this when we criticise conservative polticians, let's also point out Labor/Democrats for fairness, because it's bullshit, the vast number of scandals surrounding repsective parties paints a clear picture of the lessor evil.
 

DinkumDog

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I know exactly where that sign is, it's on the George Washington Parkway, which is a really nice drive btw. When I lived over there in the DC area, I drove past that sign a lot, and it never failed to make me laugh. What's the term? Oxymoron?
Spot on mate - oxymoron - a bit like ‘political party’ :-) Yeah, it is a nice drive, I agree. Where did you live? I was in Bethesda, MD for a while almost 20 years ago.
 

Roll the Bones

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Spot on mate - oxymoron - a bit like ‘political party’ :-) Yeah, it is a nice drive, I agree. Where did you live? I was in Bethesda, MD for a while almost 20 years ago.
I lived in Gaithersburg from 2015 to 2017. So just a bit north of Bethesda. I mostly loved it and nearly everyone I worked with or socialised with were super nice. But drive 40 or so minutes into West Virginia, it was a totally different world. Beautiful countryside and still mostly friendly people to us visitors, but there was a lot more MAGA/Trump signs, NRA logos and and confederate flags everywhere. So wasn't a good idea to engage locals in any political discussions etc. I always did find it strange that they so vehemently followed a political party which seems to be more about looking after the upper class and corporate America than that of the working class. But anyhows, it was a good idea not to get too involved. Just be nice to folk and enjoy the amazing bbq food!
 

DinkumDog

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I lived in Gaithersburg from 2015 to 2017. So just a bit north of Bethesda. I mostly loved it and nearly everyone I worked with or socialised with were super nice. But drive 40 or so minutes into West Virginia, it was a totally different world. Beautiful countryside and still mostly friendly people to us visitors, but there was a lot more MAGA/Trump signs, NRA logos and and confederate flags everywhere. So wasn't a good idea to engage locals in any political discussions etc. I always did find it strange that they so vehemently followed a political party which seems to be more about looking after the upper class and corporate America than that of the working class. But anyhows, it was a good idea not to get too involved. Just be nice to folk and enjoy the amazing bbq food!
I know Gaithersburg and was last there in 2018, small world. Agree the further you get away from town it’s a noticeable change eg: ‘Fredneck’ (Frederick) :-). Political discussions are usually fraught with danger, I choose carefully. I also agree on the perception and I think apart from the Rona it cost Trump this time - he made promises to the working class in 2016 he didn’t keep and that’s likely why WI, MI etc returned blue.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Yep, exactly as my mate described it. He lives bang in the centre of DC and they marched past his building - he sat on his balcony saying ‘You lost, go home!’. No doubt it’s another super spreader event too.
Yeah that's the thing. These idiots are literally risking death over nothing.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Friend of ours was a nasho in Vietnam.
Told us American soldiers often went on strike in the field if they didn't get ice cream in their rations.

Entitlism is not new for them :(
Its still a huge change from the attitudes that were prevalent in WW2. The way the American people got behind their countries war effort was 180 degrees of difference with the behaviour and attitudes of so many today.
 
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