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No but look at the context of my reply.Do we have to get 3 wooden spoons before we realise Pay is not a coach ?
Someone tried an argument that was severely flawed and I responded
No but look at the context of my reply.Do we have to get 3 wooden spoons before we realise Pay is not a coach ?
That’s right mate. Coaches literally turned us down when seeing the situation Hasler had left us in.
Pay had the nuts to take on the role when others wouldn’t and for that along with the fact he was a top player, played for his country and had more toughness than many here could dream about he has my respect. Who else do we get? Another unproven? If Pay had a decent roster how we he go? We will probably never know. He has never even had a full roster cap wise and now player wise to work with
Strange. I think he's just stating facts rather than making excuses. Don't think you can argue with what he's saying.
Whether he played for his country or had more mental toughness that all could only dream of here doesn't mean a lot to me. I know what you're saying, but for me it's not important.That’s right mate. Coaches literally turned us down when seeing the situation Hasler had left us in.
Pay had the nuts to take on the role when others wouldn’t and for that along with the fact he was a top player, played for his country and had more toughness than many here could dream about he has my respect. Who else do we get? Another unproven? If Pay had a decent roster how we he go? We will probably never know. He has never even had a full roster cap wise and now player wise to work with
Numerous people have said continuously that Pay has "overachieved" as coach and that no one else could do better. Some people are still making excuses for him even after last night.Strange. I think he's just stating facts rather than making excuses. Don't think you can argue with what he's saying.
Stepping aside from that, I haven't seen anyone say Pay hasn't made mistakes nor that he's doing a wonderful job which is what I'd expect a 'Pay sympathiser' to do personally. It's clear he's struggling as a coach. Some can see that there's more to it than him simply being just shit as he really has been hampered the whole time he's been here.
Does that mean he should be excused for our current performances? Hell no. But I don't think anyone is saying he should be. More that when we discuss his performance that we bring in all the factors to evaluate him.
It's not just about the roster Natboy, it's about the team selections and tactics. Do you honestly think that the team played to their potential last night or disagree that Pay played several people out of position yet again?That’s right mate. Coaches literally turned us down when seeing the situation Hasler had left us in.
Pay had the nuts to take on the role when others wouldn’t and for that along with the fact he was a top player, played for his country and had more toughness than many here could dream about he has my respect. Who else do we get? Another unproven? If Pay had a decent roster how we he go? We will probably never know. He has never even had a full roster cap wise and now player wise to work with
Agree with this all. Really do. He's not the right person for the Dogs.It's not just about the roster Natboy, it's about the team selections and tactics. Do you honestly think that the team played to their potential last night or disagree that Pay played several people out of position yet again?
Things Pay can control:
- Move DWZ from fullback when he has no confidence there now
- Not leave Averillo on the bench til the 60th minute im a blowout
- Never pick Reimis at centre again. He'd be lucky to get picked at all on current form.
- Don't play Tolman the first 55 minutes before taking him off. Play Renouf and RFM more than 25 minutes..
- Don't drop Wakeham for Lewis and Cogger when both have proven they're Reserve Graders time and time again
- Encourage the ball to throw the team around more and not play one out footy every game as we're far too predictable.
These are things Pay can control and do better. Then maybe we won't see as many 30 point losses. But Pay will be so desperate to keep his job that he'll likely get more conservative and do more of the same over the coming weeks.
Not sure if anyone is making excuses btw. I know I'm certainly not.Numerous people have said continuously that Pay has "overachieved" as coach and that no one else could do better. Some people are still making excuses for him even after last night.
You’ve cracked it Ben, we need to stop the ball from throwing the team around!It's not just about the roster Natboy, it's about the team selections and tactics. Do you honestly think that the team played to their potential last night or disagree that Pay played several people out of position yet again?
Things Pay can control:
- Move DWZ from fullback when he has no confidence there now
- Not leave Averillo on the bench til the 60th minute im a blowout
- Never pick Reimis at centre again. He'd be lucky to get picked at all on current form.
- Don't play Tolman the first 55 minutes before taking him off. Play Renouf and RFM more than 25 minutes..
- Don't drop Wakeham for Lewis and Cogger when both have proven they're Reserve Graders time and time again
- Encourage the ball to throw the team around more and not play one out footy every game as we're far too predictable.
These are things Pay can control and do better. Then maybe we won't see as many 30 point losses. But Pay will be so desperate to keep his job that he'll likely get more conservative and do more of the same over the coming weeks.
Kevin Moore got us too a semi final. Don’t lump him in with Pay.Time for a coach with previous FG experience.. our last 2 rookie coach appointments Pay and Moore havent gone well..
Thanks for the reasonable reply Steve. I respectfully disagree and think it's worth taking a chance on someone else as we can't do any worse but we can agree to disagree on that.Agree with this all. Really do. He's not the right person for the Dogs.
My line isn't about whether he is or not. It's about who the fuck do we get instead of him. And the 'anyone's better than Pay' doesn't cut it with me.
Hahaha. Whoops! It's too early Dinkum!You’ve cracked it Ben, we need to stop the ball from throwing the team around!
Only joking mate - this is a fair post.
Last night showed very clearly the whole team lacks confidence, which when you’re down only makes things worse.
I would like to know the story behind Wakeham. Was he dropped not only from the 22 announced last Tuesday but the final 17 for a reason - or was it simply a matter of Cogger having a go?
I guess we’ll know on Tuesday but I’m convinced Lewis only played because Foz was not available - and he did himself no service to be considered again as soon as Foz is ready.
Honestly understand the feeling. Been there many times before with the teams I've followed both at the Dogs and Liverpool. It's hard. No one likes suffering through these humiliating defeats that lack conviction, passion, pride in the jersey. I completely get it.Thanks for the reasonable reply Steve. I respectfully disagree and think it's worth taking a chance on someone else as we can't do any worse but we can agree to disagree on that.
I would honestly like to understand why Wakeham wasn't there at all. That's a real shock for me and a huge step back by Pay. Not a good decision clearly though I think most would've known that when they saw the line up last week.Hahaha. Whoops! It's too early Dinkum!
I honestly think it was Pay just rotating the halves to see what Cogger would offer. I understand giving Cogger a chance, which he didn't make the most of. I don't understand picking Lewis when he was benched the game before.
Yeah - which is precisely why I want to know why. In that instance, what - Cogger 6, Wakeham 7?Hahaha. Whoops! It's too early Dinkum!
I honestly think it was Pay just rotating the halves to see what Cogger would offer. I understand giving Cogger a chance, which he didn't make the most of. I don't understand picking Lewis when he was benched the game before.
That's what he should have done going into the game. Or Averillo and Wakeham. I'm not saying Wakeham is guaranteed to be our long term half but we can't find out how good he is when he's played 5 games whereas Lewis and Cogger have played tonnes and both of those two shouldn't see FG again.Yeah - which is precisely why I want to know why. In that instance, what - Cogger 6, Wakeham 7?
Do we have to get 3 wooden spoons before we realise Pay is not a coach ?
LMAO you got owned RatBoy.No but look at the context of my reply.
Someone tried an argument that was severely flawed and I responded
And that’s the thing - despite the break and with the 50 game development target, what was the reason - injury? disciplinary?That's what he should have done going into the game. Or Averillo and Wakeham. I'm not saying Wakeham is guaranteed to be our long term half but we can't find out how good he is when he's played 5 games whereas Lewis and Cogger have played tonnes and both of those two shouldn't see FG again.
Pay keeps saying how young players need 50 games to develop but it will be hard for Wakeham to get more than 10 games under Pay it he keeps taking Wakeham in and out of the lineup. They re-signed him I assume because they believe in his ability. So let's see him develop...
It makes no sense to have him out of the 17 when we're a rebuilding team and there's not even Reserve Grade for him to get experience in...