Dean Pay on 2SM

Alan79

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In all honesty I think that Pay stepped into a job where he was responsible for pushing diarea uphill with a pin. A lot of our senior players were being shopped around when he got there. And I don't think it was just those who wound up leaving that were sounded out about it. So the players would have been in a position where their job security wasn't reassuring. Once we got the cap sorted and stability in the playing ranks for the year ahead we had some wins.

During last year we'd lost a crapload more backline experience and replaced them with close to rookies. The effort was present all year, but the young team seriously lacked composure and even if they had 20 good minutes in the game before we made an error, once that first error occurred more followed on the heels. So I think the major thing lacking for most of the year was confidence. Once they had that first win the team just knuckled down and played with composure.

Our roster is hardly one that other clubs would envy. But we're finally in a position where the all important dollar isn't going to stop the club from getting a little more talent on board.

I won't use inexperience as an excuse for poor composure. But our halves are hardly seasoned. Our backline are still young. So their ability to improvise when things aren't working is still in question. I hope we improve this year and I do expect we will. But keeping it simple might be a better strategy at present than trying to get the whole squad remembering a load of set plays that might just put the young halves in two minds when doing what they know could work better. Even Wayne Bennett has commented that he's told his players to simplify their roles when complicated strategies have resulted in strings of losses.

So while I don't think Pay is a tactical genius, I don't think our roster has the experience to implement complicated strategies anyway.

If we move Pay on after this season I won't be upset. But if we give him another year with a better roster at his disposal I won't be upset either. I actually hope that he and the squad develop some working strategies and give us a year to be proud of even if that is just scraping into the finals.
 

bradyk

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I stopped reading there
2019 expected to come last, wooden spoon (lost top players that we didn't replace, at least to the same level), finished 12th. 2020 expected to come 2nd last, finished? Not sure where we were expected to finish in 2018 but we finished 12th and had to move on players during the season.
 

TwinTurbo

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Question. How long will you give pay until you decide he isnt the coach for the club
Question. How long, with a decent player roster, will you give Pay until you decide he is the coach for the club?

Go Dogs
 

EB18

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My 9 month old daughter can replace Lyn. She sure as hell can do a better job. As for Pay my cleaner at work will do a better job then him. Can't believe people are still supporter of this inept board. No major sponsor no finals series while they been in charge. They have done nothing besides send us backwards. Yet people like yourself still support them. What have they done that's good in order for you to support them? Next AGM they are gone. Difficulty be voting against them.
Who’s Lyn?
Once you’re done sacking everyone, who replaces them? That’s probably a bridge too far, eh?
 

DinkumDog

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My 9 month old daughter can replace Lyn. She sure as hell can do a better job. As for Pay my cleaner at work will do a better job then him. Can't believe people are still supporter of this inept board. No major sponsor no finals series while they been in charge. They have done nothing besides send us backwards. Yet people like yourself still support them. What have they done that's good in order for you to support them? Next AGM they are gone. Difficulty be voting against them.
Fantastic - child labour - can you have your daughter and cleaner available to start Monday assuming the season will go ahead on 28 May?
With suggestions like that we'll be in safe hands - oops - the next board election is February 2022 - so not 'the next AGM' - off to a good start.
As for the major sponsor - yes, we had one - and two selfish former employees ruined that. Oh - Rashay's not good enough for you? No company willing to put $2m on the table is good enough? Whoops - then we had this little virus thingy and a suspended season to deal with.
There was no finals series in the final year of the previous administrators too - so to try to hang that on 'this inept board' - well - #fail.
And it's not the administrators who take the field - it's the players - and we've had a deeply inexperienced squad for 2 years and whatever is left of this season.
So given your three immediate and obvious slip-ups I don't think I'll bother explaining the rest.
Look forward to seeing more of your genius input at Belmore from Monday. Thanks.
 
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Dogna88

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Question. How long, with a decent player roster, will you give Pay until you decide he is the coach for the club?

Go Dogs
LOL answering a question with a question. You side stepping much?

Answer. How long would you be willing to give him?

For me. If his win/lose ratio doesn't significantly improve by the endof 2021. We look elsewhere.
 
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D- voice

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My 9 month old daughter can replace Lyn. She sure as hell can do a better job. As for Pay my cleaner at work will do a better job then him. Can't believe people are still supporter of this inept board. No major sponsor no finals series while they been in charge. They have done nothing besides send us backwards. Yet people like yourself still support them. What have they done that's good in order for you to support them? Next AGM they are gone. Difficulty be voting against them.
Fantastic - child labour - can you have your daughter and cleaner available to start Monday assuming the season will go ahead on 28 May?
With suggestions like that we'll be in safe hands - oops - the next board election is February 2022 - so not 'the next AGM' - off to a good start.
As for the major sponsor - yes, we had one - and two selfish former employees ruined that. Oh - Rashay's not good enough for you? No company willing to put $2m on the table is good enough? Whoops - then we had this little virus thingy and a suspended season to deal with.
There was no finals series in the final year of the previous administrators too - so to try to hang that on 'this inept board' - well - #fail.
And it's not the administrators who take the field - it's the players - and we've had a deeply inexperienced squad for 2 years and whatever is left of this season.
So given your three immediate and obvious slip-ups I don't think I'll bother explaining the rest.
Look forward to seeing more of your genius input at Belmore from Monday. Thanks.
LOL answering a question with a question. You side stepping much?

Answer. How long would you be willing to give him?

For me. If his win/lose ratio doesn't significantly improve by the endof 2021. We look elsewhere.
Allow me to mediate on these very delicate issues...
Pay was a rookie coach looking for a chance to coach 1st grade and got it, our demise and depleted roster is not a fault of his and can not be crucified judging him by that.
I said this many times before...After more than 2 years The management and the team are the once who could and should honestly judge if he is a tactically capable coach !!!
Lynne is our chairwoman who was appointed by a board that was elected by the members, they have made decisions and promised that the team will be rebuilt for 2021 season, ultimately they should be judged on the results, in my opinion if the team isn't rebuilt for the 2021 season,
ALL MUST GO, the chairwoman, the board and the coach...
They should all hand their resignations before 2021 season begins especially if our memberships keeps declining and the team without a major sponsor...
That's if they truly care for the club !!!
That's if they truly believe what the great BULLFROG once said...Club 1st, Team 2nd and Individuals 3rd !!!
Otherwise they are only delaying the inevitable !!!
 
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EB18

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Still haven't answered my question. What is something good this inept board has done to justify your support for them?
Fantastic - child labour - can you have your daughter and cleaner available to start Monday assuming the season will go ahead on 28 May?
With suggestions like that we'll be in safe hands - oops - the next board election is February 2022 - so not 'the next AGM' - off to a good start.
As for the major sponsor - yes, we had one - and two selfish former employees ruined that. Oh - Rashay's not good enough for you? No company willing to put $2m on the table is good enough? Whoops - then we had this little virus thingy and a suspended season to deal with.
There was no finals series in the final year of the previous administrators too - so to try to hang that on 'this inept board' - well - #fail.
And it's not the administrators who take the field - it's the players - and we've had a deeply inexperienced squad for 2 years and whatever is left of this season.
So given your three immediate and obvious slip-ups I don't think I'll bother explaining the rest.
Look forward to seeing more of your genius input at Belmore from Monday. Thanks.
 

TwinTurbo

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Still haven't answered my question. What is something good this inept board has done to justify your support for them?
The coaching team and the Board worked together and got us from ~30% over the Cap to being Cap compliant in less than 12 months, with lots of pain, letting go players that we otherwise would have kept, and assembled a roster that hasn't finished last despite all the "experts" and the bookies (always follow the money) unanimously picking us for the spoon. Nothing short of amazing achievements and all the time keeping us informed that 2021 was the first year that we would be free of heinous Cap constraints. Which is why the Board was reelected unopposed at the last election.

The only ineptness is some people's ongoing inability to recognise the facts of just how deep in the shit we were and how much of an effort it was simply to survive and get us to where we are now, ready for 2021.

Go Dogs
 

DinkumDog

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Still haven't answered my question. What is something good this inept board has done to justify your support for them?
Probably because I've already posted it here 20 times previously. But since some are a bit slow on the uptake:

- Fronted the members in May 2018 to be honest about what they had inherited and pulled no punches that 'we could not be competitive again until 2021' (I was in the room when they said this).
- Negotiated a settlement with Hasler to avoid long and costly legal action over the contract the previous Chairman committed then rescinded on (and no, the settlement was nowhere near the amount often speculated on here).
- Negotiated to release early M'Bye, Woods and Klemmer to other clubs to help bring us back under the salary cap we were massively over due to signing Foran and Woods on dollars we couldn't afford which was on top of already committed back-ended contracts, some with ratchet clauses, making our cap position even worse.
- Began to release expensive players at the end or heading towards the end of their careers (Eastwood, Moz Brothers) to maintain cap management whilst other back-ended/ratcheted contracts kicked in/up, raising our player salary costs.
- Instituted various forms of corporate governance so a mess created by the Three Amigos could never happen again (because it absolutely STUFFED our club as we've all seen in the past 2 seasons).
- Set up two partnerships to re-start pathways for juniors into our system (pretty much abandoned by the previous administrators and coach who believed you bought big to win, not bothered to develop players).
- Recruited who they could with what little money was available (particularly for 2019 and 2020) to keep us cap compliant whilst the rest of these back-ended/ratcheted contracts matured (the last of those this year).
- Retained just about all sponsors (yes, some on lesser deals) for a team that was clearly not going to win the competition any time soon - when they could've easily walked (and no, KIA did not walk, they downgraded, in case you weren't aware).
- Convinced a business to part with $2m in discretionary spend to become major sponsor in an already rapidly cooling economy (pre-COVID, but post bushfires) - only for 2 selfish former employees to screw that up (not to mention damage one of the above partnerships which the board is now working on restoring faith in).

Shall I go on?
The fact is it was ALWAYS going to take time to repair the massive damaged state the club was left in by the previous administrators. They never shied away from it, provided a timeline to fix it and have stuck to it.
So maybe we can have a discussion in 6 and again in 12 months about how 'inept' they really are. Maybe you'll change your mind when some upcoming roster changes are finalised and announced.
Will we still see you, your daughter and cleaner on Monday? If so, call 0406 650 430 on your arrival at Belmore. Ask for Rej. Cheers.
 

DinkumDog

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Allow me to mediate on these very delicate issues...
Pay was a rookie coach looking for a chance to coach 1st grade and got it, our demise and depleted roster is not a fault of his and can not be crucified judging him by that.
I said this many times before...After more than 2 years The management and the team are the once who could and should honestly judge if he is a tactically capable coach !!!
Lynne is our chairwoman who was appointed by a board that was elected by the members, they have made decisions and promised that the team will be rebuilt for 2021 season, ultimately they should be judged on the results, in my opinion if the team isn't rebuilt for the 2021 season,
ALL MUST GO, the chairwoman, the board and the coach...
They should all hand their resignations before 2021 season begins especially if our memberships keeps declining and the team without a major sponsor...
That's if they truly care for the club !!!
That's if they truly believe what the great BULLFROG once said...Club 1st, Team 2nd and Individuals 3rd !!!
Otherwise they are only delaying the inevitable !!!
No need to mediate mate.
You make some fair points.
I don't see anyone resigning before the 2021 season however - they've been elected for 2 years a couple of months ago and the job still isn't finished.
It was always about 2021. The hunt for a replacement sponsor will no doubt get underway in earnest when the season restarts (a little bit difficult now with no footy on and the club on skeleton staff due to COVID-19).
If however by the END of 2021 we haven't seen the improvements we need without being handcuffed along the way - I've no doubt a rival ticket will be formed, would challenge and possibly could defeat the incumbents at the 2022 election.
Clearly they would be aware that if they don't deliver, they probably don't keep their jobs. I don't think they're that 'inept' as some like to say...
 

LordSidious66

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I'm worried that our only major signing for next year is Thompson. Surely the club are going after more players during this down time. (unless its not allowed atm).
 

bradyk

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I'm worried that our only major signing for next year is Thompson. Surely the club are going after more players during this down time. (unless its not allowed atm).
We have to spend 95% of our salary cap so don't be worried. The other option is to front load contracts but why would we do that?
 

Cook

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Pays future could depend on a fit Foran. If he plays we win more than expected, which could save his arse. If he is to stay on though, only a year by year entension surely.
 

DinkumDog

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Pays future could depend on a fit Foran. If he plays we win more than expected, which could save his arse. If he is to stay on though, only a year by year entension surely.
You could be right there mate.
And Foran's future too.
1+1 (club's favour) might be an option depending on 2021.
 

Shire Dog

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I'm worried that our only major signing for next year is Thompson. Surely the club are going after more players durithong this down time. (unless its not allowed atm).
Thompson is a great accusation for our club
We just need to be a bit patient and wait till the second half of the year before others come along.
I don’t think it’s fair to pass judgment on our recruitment yet,let’s see our final squad come round 1 next year.
 
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