Controversy Corner - Grahame Hughes on Dean Pay and whats going on

[GDR]

The "it's not me it's you" defence.

"We haven't been able to do everything we wanted because our cap is up the shit thanks to Des and Dib". It palms off responsibility to the previous board, rather than accepting that the decision to let players go was the current boards call. In doing so the excuse was that they needed to clear cap space.

Yet now it's claimed we still don't have cap space.

It's akin to selling everything you own then claiming you made no money off it.

Something doesn't sit right and Toovey is calling the board out on it.

no sorry ... you know what doesnt sit right .. how much of a cluster FCK the previous mob left .. thats it .. get over it... they left a massive mess that will take years to clean up.. simple nothing more and nothing less.. remove the tin foil hats people !!! seriously the BS in this place is becoming unbearable ..

 

[coach]

Correct me if I'm wrong BUT:
Brett and Josh Morris and Eastwood - off contract anyway end of last year (and hence not in this years cap).
Woods, Kasiano, Mbye, Reynolds - we would not be paying a cent towards anymore as they had short contracts anyway.
Klemmer - was a mutual termination and we did not contribute a cent to him leaving.

So the illusion that we had to discard players to get way under the cap is just that, an illusion. There is no factual basis to it. It was more we couldn't SIGN any big name players.

So again... where has all the money gone on our current player lineup?


Toovey is a financial expert (accountant). If anyone knows numbers, it'll be him.

From a coach and a financial perspective, he would know the board are bullshitting about the cap situation.

It's a shame they didn't let him talk more about it (and told Buzz and Hughes to shut the fuck up).


Won't make a bees dick of difference because the big clubs are smart in how they get around the cap. Those heavily involved with the club have the players (or their partners/family) employed in high paying salary jobs, which contribute and bump up the players salary.

Cleaners, PAs, and Guest Service Co-Ordinators at clubs on $100k a year packages, but don't work an actual day in their lives.


The "it's not me it's you" defence.

"We haven't been able to do everything we wanted because our cap is up the shit thanks to Des and Dib". It palms off responsibility to the previous board, rather than accepting that the decision to let players go was the current boards call. In doing so the excuse was that they needed to clear cap space.

Yet now it's claimed we still don't have cap space.

It's akin to selling everything you own then claiming you made no money off it.

Something doesn't sit right and Toovey is calling the board out on it.

Still paying for woods and mbye bud
It’s literally been written in every paper and league article
Quick google search

 

[JackDog]

Toovey should know more than anyone what it's like to have no money in the piggy bank thanks to Hasler. I'm surprised he's questioning why we cant afford stars.

He knows what shit Des does, hence he knows that's the question to ask.

Would really like to know how much is being spent on dogs players this year, and how much is being spent on ex-dogs players we farmed off to succeed at other clubs.

We were missing $700k of player from our FG side (not counting Whoopi, he's a reggies player), and Canberra were missing $3-4m of players yet they still win, THERE'S GOT TO BE AN INVESTIGATION!!!

 

[Packstar]

no sorry ... you know what doesnt sit right .. how much of a cluster FCK the previous mob left .. thats it .. get over it... they left a massive mess that will take years to clean up.. simple nothing more and nothing less.. remove teh tin foil hats people !!! seriously the BS in this place is becoming unbearable ..

Only thing that can be done is for Pay to be replaced ASAP.

As Hughes said the squad wont change next season, but the coach definitely should be changed.

Looks like there is a lot of knuckleheads here who also cant get it through their thick skulls that contracts were also heavily backended becuase we couldnt attract 3rd party sponsors

 

[GDR]

Only thing that can be done is for Pay to be replaced ASAP.

As Hughes said the squad wont change next season, but the coach definitely should be changed.

Looks like there is a lot of knuckleheads here who also cant get it through their thick skulls that contracts were also heavily backended becuase we couldnt attract 3rd party sponsors

The Coach is where the current board has let us down... mind you, he was initially signed by Dib anyway so his still is somewhat responsible for that F up as well..

 

[B-Train]

no sorry ... you know what doesnt sit right .. how much of a cluster FCK the previous mob left .. thats it .. get over it... they left a massive mess that will take years to clean up.. simple nothing more and nothing less.. remove the tin foil hats people !!! seriously the BS in this place is becoming unbearable ..

No one is denying the mess inherited. If they fire Pay promptly and make some decent signings then all will be forgiven.

It's the confusion around how much cap space we have, doubts about how they're using that cap space and the lack of action or comment by the club for a while that have people concerned.

If they showed the leadership that the club needs right now, most people would be more supportive and less sceptical.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Contracts are registered with the NRL yeah? How can clubs be allowed to get in these situations if the NRL can see it coming. Surely the nrl must have some sort of duty of care to the clubs in its organization. Fark it seems the clubs* need to be protected from themselves.

The salary cap is only enforced in the current year, they don't care about next year or the year after. Due to the growing trend of back ending contracts, the NRL banned them going forward, but that doesn't fix contracts already registered. In our case we "fixed" the problem in 2018 for 2019 so no issues with compliance, but there would have been if we didn't fix it by shedding players.

* excludes Easts, souths, broncos. They're fine

And Melbourne, you left out Melbourne.

Go Dogs

 

[Packstar]

The Coach is where the current board has let us down... mind you, he was initially signed by Dib anyway so his still is somewhat responsible for that F up as well..

The only reason i think they gave him an extension was because they couldnt find an established replacement, but in saying that it was too soon in the year to be replacing him.

Current board has also let us down by pissing money up the wall on lichaa and clay priest. (Could be alot wose though)

 

[James zac]

He knows what shit Des does, hence he knows that's the question to ask.

Would really like to know how much is being spent on dogs players this year, and how much is being spent on ex-dogs players we farmed off to succeed at other clubs.

We were missing $700k of player from our FG side (not counting Whoopi, he's a reggies player), and Canberra were missing $3-4m of players yet they still win, THERE'S GOT TO BE AN INVESTIGATION!!!

He’s lost the dressing room players have had jack of him

 

[GDR]

No one is denying the mess inherited. If they fire Pay promptly and make some decent signings then all will be forgiven.

It's the confusion around how much cap space we have, doubts about how they're using that cap space and the lack of action or comment by the club for a while that have people concerned.

If they showed the leadership that the club needs right now, most people would be more supportive and less sceptical.

I know what your saying and yes i would like to know more ... but theres an extremely fine line in business and many would consider showing yours cards to the competition a very bad move ..

 

[GDR]

The only reason i think they gave him an extension was because they couldnt find an established replacement, but in saying that it was too soon in the year to be replacing him.

Current board has also let us down by pissing money up the wall on lichaa and clay priest. (Could be alot wose though)

lichaa was a previous board move im pretty sure .. not sure about Priest

 

[B-Train]

I know what your saying and yes i would like to know more ... but theres an extremely fine line in business and many would consider showing yours cards to the competiion a very bad move ..

I agree with that. I think most of this argument centres around reporting and people saying we have no cap space left and won't til 2021. Clearly we do have cap space as we signed several players last year along with Napa.

And they're still recruiting and being linked to players now. So we do have cap space, just not as much as we should with such a poor roster due to Des and Dib's fuck ups. It's imperative that they need to use it wisely moving forward.

The recruits made by this regime have all failed to live up to expectations thus far aside from CHN. So they need to make sure they scout better and the next recruiting class is better, even with a limited budget.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Here's the thing, the previous board and coach are accountable. But the current board doesn't want to take accountability for the problems caused by the previous board.

If you start a job and the your predecessor made a major error, would you want to be held accountable for it? Of course not. It's the same in this case.

It all comes down to Dib and Raelene giving Des too much power. They are the reason we're in this mess right now!

Garbage, this board is accountable for what is happening now. They have made decisions...they extended Pays contract, they cut players, they signed players, etc. Don't fucking bs with this rubbish.

 

[dogluva]

By the looks of it Jackson, Hoppa and Tolman must be close to a $1m back ended contract.

Foran must be pushing between 1.5-2m

Ooh I have heard of another on 800k apparently and he isn't what you would call a superstar.....back ended to play catch-up for accepting minimal...if true really depressing and goes a fair way to explaining our troubles.....

 

[GDR]

I agree with that. I think most of this argument centres around reporting and people saying we have no cap space left and won't til 2021. Clearly we do have cap space as we signed several players last year along with Napa.

And they're still recruiting and being linked to players now. So we do have cap space, just not as much as we should with such a poor roster due to Des and Dib's fuck ups. It's imperative that they need to use it wisely moving forward.

The recruits made by this regime have all failed to live up to expectations thus far aside from CHN. So they need to make sure they scout better and the next recruiting class is better, even with a limited budget.

im pretty sure that what was said by the board and has never wavered .. they said 2019 would be bad, 2020 would see a little more relief and 2021 would be when we can really make some marque purchases..

As for the recruits.. i honestly believe theres a lot of potential there .. its the coach that is providing the poor game plan .. nor is he picking the best team available and also picking players out of position

 

[GDR]

Ooh I have heard of another on 800k apparently and he isn't what you would call a superstar.....back ended to play catch-up for accepting minimal...if true really depressing and goes a fair way to explaining our troubles.....

id say either Holland, Montoya or Elliot .. all signed by the Dib Shits.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

It is clear what our biggest problem is atm ... and hopefully the coach is removed for next season ... problem is, who can we possibly convince to come here, that is worth having.

I honestly believe there is more ability in this team then we are currently seeing and hopefully with a few more astute signings this off season and a better coach, we can see a dramatic improvement next year..

The improvement should've been this year, Pay should've never been given this season and it was dead obvious very early on. The board has wasted this season because of there decision.

I don't buy this whole narrative that there is no one else because if the board was going to play things this way they simply had to get the right person in asap. This person didn't need to be a long term coach, they simply needed to be able to do the ground work that Pay just doesn't have a fucking clue about.

Players at the club right now should be in a position where they are able to express themselves playing within a system that focuses on the core basics. Instead we have some idiot that doesn't have a clue and is just doing more damage than good. These players should be trying to sell themselves to us or other clubs, but the environment around the club just doesn't allow it.

 

[Packstar]

im pretty sure that what was said by the board has never wavered .. they said 2019 would be bad, 2020 would see a little more relief and 2021 would be when we can really make some marque purchases..

As for the recruits.. i honestly believe theres a lot of potential there .. its the coach that is providing the poor game plan .. nor is he picking the best team available and also picking players out of position

The coach is really bad, and he simply cannot get the best out of each individual

Please explain to me where you see "lots" of potential in our roster.

For me potential is CHN & Remis Smith.

Meaney isnt too bad, but he needs to develop a passing game and requires a couple of cycles of Stanazol, Dianabol, GH & Peptides.

 

[GDR]

The improvement should've been this year, Pay should've never been given this season and it was dead obvious very early on. The board has wasted this season because of there decision.

I don't buy this whole narrative that there is no one else because if the board was going to play things this way they simply had to get the right person in asap. This person didn't need to be a long term coach, they simply needed to be able to do the ground work that Pay just doesn't have a fucking clue about.

Players at the club right now should be in a position where they are able to express themselves playing within a system that focuses on the core basics. Instead we have some idiot that doesn't have a clue and is just doing more damage than good. These players should be trying to sell themselves to us or other clubs, but the environment around the club just doesn't allow it.

Im not going to pretend i know what is going on behind close doors and what viable options we had.

For all we know, the board thought it was best to give pay a good possible environment to allow him to achieve results and thats why they took the pressure of him with the extension .. i dont know and neither do you

yes the pay re-siging was incorrect in hindsight.. but everything is much clearer in hindsight

 

[TwinTurbo]

Correct me if I'm wrong BUT:
Brett and Josh Morris and Eastwood - off contract anyway end of last year (and hence not in this years cap).
Woods, Kasiano, Mbye, Reynolds - we would not be paying a cent towards anymore as they had short contracts anyway.
Klemmer - was a mutual termination and we did not contribute a cent to him leaving.

So the illusion that we had to discard players to get way under the cap is just that, an illusion. There is no factual basis to it. It was more we couldn't SIGN any big name players.

So again... where has all the money gone on our current player lineup?

You are wrong, sorry for correcting you but you are.

Firstly, the NRL audits the salary cap and clubs are only allowed not to spend 5% in any one year. This appears to be audited at least twice per year, once at the beginning of the year and again at the end. There is also a desk review done around 30 June for the items that expire at that time (eg; 30 registered players). So it is next to impossible not to spend the cap in any one year.

Secondly, we have to include players gained as well as players lost. In 2018 the losses of contracted 2019 players were Woods, Kasiano, Mbye (back ended) and Reynolds (also back ended), that's around $3.2m plus Klemmer of course, around $800k . Plus Napa at around $600k. Simple maths (yes, educated guesses);

$13.0m - $3.2m - $0.8m + $0.6m = $9.6m

Plus we gained previously not included in 2019 contract values Cogger, Meaney, Crichton, Sue, CHN, and Smith, albeit not high cost players. To offset the losses in Mozzies x 2, Woolford, Frawley, Fine, Priest, and Eastwood

We can debate forever how much each player is contracted for and how much we think they are worth, which won't achieve anything. But it's not that hard to see how we ended up where we are.

Don't get me wrong, I sure as hell don't like it, but this is where we are. There is dim light at the end of the tunnel for next year, but for 2020 there is plenty of sunshine.


Go Dogs