Controversy Corner - Grahame Hughes on Dean Pay and whats going on

[The_Chimpster]

I want to know the answer to Tooveys question. WHERE HAS THE MONEY GONE? Because it sure hasn't gone on players.

Maybe the board hired that cock-whisperer con artist dude and are keeping him on retainer at $11000 an hour

(we are paying him double for "an extra edge")

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Im not going to pretend i know what is going on behind close doors and what viable options we had.

For all we know, the board thought it was best to give pay a good possible environment to allow him to achieve results and thats why they tookthe pressure of him with the extension .. i dont know and neither do you

yes the pay re-siging was incorrect in hindsight.. but everything is much clearer in hindsight

Possibly, but we can only judge on what they tell us and what we hear at this stage. And I wouldn't say we can only judge in hindsight, as you know I have been into Pay since day 1 and I still have trouble trying to work out how anyone possibly saw a future under him.

 

[bradyk]

The money has to have gone to the players because we have to spend 95% of the cap. We have to still have front/back-ended contracts. Looks like we can't do anything until the back-ended contracts are finished, 2021. Even tho the front-ended contracts will be done with next year, the back-ended contracts must be so severe we still don't have room to sign players. We have so much money tied up in Hopoate, Tolman and Jackson (also Foran, but..), which none of them are game winners. Foran is a game winner, but massively overpaid (even if fit) and injured all the time.

 

[GDR]

The coach is really bad, and he simply cannot get the best out of each individual

Please explain to me where you see "lots" of potential in our roster.

For me potential is CHN & Remis Smith.

Meaney isnt too bad, but he needs to develop a passing game and requires a couple of cycles of Stanazol, Dianabol, GH & Peptides.

I think CHN, R SMith, Meaney, Cogger, Okunbor, Sue have all shown moments of brillance .. Just not consistently .. thats a coaches job to get the consistency from them

Chris Smith, Elliott, hoppa and Jackson should be dropped ..

Toomaga and RFM should be in first grade ....

we should not be in the spoon position thats all im saying and thats on the coach

 

[GDR]

Possibly, but we can only judge on what they tell us and what we hear at this stage. And I wouldn't say we can only judge in hindsight, as you know I have been into Pay since day 1 and I still have trouble trying to work out how anyone possibly saw a future under him.

i consider myself a fair person and belive everyone deserves a chance, maybe even a second chance .. i was not willing to judge him as quickly as you.. I wanted a bigger sample size with more variables.. ive got that now and i know that he is not what we need.. Also after finally getting rid of hasler i was just so desperate for our next coach to be good that i was blind sighted by his failings early on.. i have no probs admitting i was wrong .. cant say the same about plenty of others round here..

 

[Packstar]

I think CHN, R SMith, Meaney, Cogger, Okunbor, Sue have all shown moments of brillance .. Just not consistently .. thats a coaches job to get the consistency from them

Chris Smith, Elliott, hoppa and Jackson should be dropped ..

Toomaga and RFM should be in first grade ....

we should not be in the spoon position thats all im saying and thats on the coach

The way i look at it, and the way i was looking at it before the year started, we were odds on for the spoon, in conjunction with our roster. We also lost Morris bros and Klemmer in one hit.

BUT, we should be playing alot better than what we are, and that comes down to Pay. He does not have any systems down in place and he is a MASSIVEEEEEE confidence killer.

He is trying to be a hard ass like Bellamy, but he hasnt got the aura like Bellamy and he has to earn the respect of his players, which imo he hasnt. Someone should tell Dean he is not playing Fifa19

 

[The_Chimpster]

Someone should tell Dean he is not playing Fifa19

He'd suck at fifa and in career mode would be fired after his first year

 

[bradyk]

The way i look at it, and the way i was looking at it before the year started, we were odds on for the spoon, in conjunction with our roster. We also lost Morris bros and Klemmer in one hit.

BUT, we should be playing alot better than what we are, and that comes down to Pay. He does not have any systems down in place and he is a MASSIVEEEEEE confidence killer.

He is trying to be a hard ass like Bellamy, but he hasnt got the aura like Bellamy and he has to earn the respect of his players, which imo he hasnt. Someone should tell Dean he is not playing Fifa19

With the squad we have we're where we should be. You seriously can't look at another squad and think we have a better roster then any of them. There are better coaches then Pay, but I'm sorry no coach in the world can do anything with this roster and why would they take the job anyways. Pay is a good stepping stone for now while we're in this mess.

 

[Mr Invisible]

Still paying for woods and mbye bud
It’s literally been written in every paper and league article
Quick google search

Even if we are theres no way either would be on anywhere near $1 million. So again, the numbers do not add up.

Looks like there is a lot of knuckleheads here who also cant get it through their thick skulls that contracts were also heavily backended becuase we couldnt attract 3rd party sponsors

Theres no way most of them are on big coin, and certainly not enough to cause the claimed issues.

no sorry ... you know what doesnt sit right .. how much of a cluster FCK the previous mob left .. thats it .. get over it... they left a massive mess that will take years to clean up.. simple nothing more and nothing less.. remove the tin foil hats people !!! seriously the BS in this place is becoming unbearable ..

It's an excuse. They renewed the coaches contract.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the signatures of Meaney, Sue, Saddler, Olive, Suli, Cogger CHN, Napa, Priest, Lichaa Mk2 are all on the current mobs head.

Secondly, we have to include players gained as well as players lost. In 2018 the losses of contracted 2019 players were Woods, Kasiano, Mbye (back ended) and Reynolds (also back ended), that's around $3.2m plus Klemmer of course, around $800k . Plus Napa at around $600k. Simple maths (yes, educated guesses);

For starters you CANNOT backend a contract past a players contracted period. In other words if you contract a player from 2017 to 2020, you CANNOT backend the contract to pay them in 2021 or 2022.

Kasiano - our final payment was $700k towards his contract in 2018. He is off the books.
Reynolds - NOT contracted past 2018 to the Bulldogs. Was not offered a contract renewal.
Brett and Josh Morris - NOT contracted past 2018. Was not offered a contract renewal.
Klemmer - mutual contract termination, ZERO contribution.
Suli - mutual contract termination, ZERO contribution.
Woods and Mbye - would potentially be the only players we are contributing towards outside the club. Flanagan took advantage of our club and fucked us hard, so we would be paying more of Woods salary. Mbye I doubt we are paying more than $300k towards.

 

[GDR]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the signatures of Meaney, Sue, Saddler, Olive, Suli, Cogger CHN, Napa, Priest, Lichaa Mk2 are all on the current mobs head.

Having no money means you have to fill your 30 man squad with nufties .. so all you are doing is strengthening my argument.. Which also was outlined by the board on mutiple occasions..

Lichaa, Saddler and Olive were signed by the Dib Shits.. unsure about Priest ...

As for Meaney, Sue, Cogger CHN, Napa, we are yet to see what they can do with the correct guidance .. all have show moments of brilliance .. And by all reports came quite cheap.

All the innuendo and speculation on here only achieves one purpose,, and that is to hurt the club and turn supporters away .. You plant a seed of doubt and watch it grow..

Very little factual information has been provided by the Dib supporters ,,, meanwhile the board have been very upfront with our situation.

Just like the incorrect information you just gave about the Lichaa, Saddler and Olive contracts....

Actually most of your info has a terrible strike rate, if im being completely honest..

 

[pisssst]

Contracts are registered with the NRL yeah? How can clubs be allowed to get in these situations if the NRL can see it coming. Surely the nrl must have some sort of duty of care to the clubs in its organization. Fark it seems the clubs* need to be protected from themselves.

* excludes Easts, souths, broncos. They're fine

That’s why the nrl came out this year saying there will be no more back ended deals aloud in the nrl.

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

So which coaches are available now, who are here in Australia?

Hook
Toovey
?

If there was a choice Toovey would be the go and would attract good players and he has passion, also he's won a gf.

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

Foran takes up $1.3m in 2020. Jackson, Tolman, Hopoate are backended at 900k each for 2020.

That leaves you about $5.5m for 26 players which is an average of about $211k per player.

I think we are all missing the biggest point, and that is, we have Sweet Fark All in 3rd party sponsorships.

Aren't we lucky, a broken down Foran on as you said $1.3 mil and even though he's been one of our best he's not worth that kind of cash, as for hopoate he's slow not even worth a 3rd of what he's on and Tolman tries hard but is past it and gets in the way, we are totally utterly up shit creek for another season.
We won't win a comp until close to 2030 if we're lucky, depressing!!!

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

I'm not buying the narrative of let's write off 2020 already and there's nothing the board can do... I'm aware of the massive backended contracts and Foran etc, but no one told them to waste 500k plus on Napa that we didn't have to spend.

They can still get creative in generating space for next year. Even if the worst case scenarios are true with Tolman, Hoppa and Jackson, they could all be paid half of their salary by us and half by another club and that would generate $1.5 million in cap space...

Or the board could arrange TPA's for current or new recruits to ease the burden. They can't play this "mess we inherited" tune forever. Two years is enough, especially after releasing half the team and finishing in the bottom four both years. They have to start accepting responsibility that they knew they job they took on and could do better with what they can control....

No other team would want Tolman or Hoppa.

 

[Squash the Berries!]

If there was a choice Toovey would be the go and would attract good players and he has passion, also he's won a gf.

Toovey on the resigning of Pay

 

[TwinTurbo]

For starters you CANNOT backend a contract past a players contracted period. In other words if you contract a player from 2017 to 2020, you CANNOT backend the contract to pay them in 2021 or 2022.

Sorry I just don't understand, we were talking about 2019, not 2020 or 2021. Obviously you can't back end a contract past the contract period, that's just silly.

FWIW, Mbye's reported 3 year $2m contract was for 2018, 2019 and 2020. Woods was reported at $3.2m for 4 years being 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021.

Go Dogs

 

[Squash the Berries!]

Toovey is the man to turn things around at the Dogs due to his astute understanding of the game.

 

[JUNKYARD DOGS]

Talking about Woods, whats goin on with him he injured?
He hasnt done much for some time.

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

The first thing that needs to be done is sack Pay, he is the major problem discounting the salary cap, Pay needs to go then invest in a Topline Fg coach and knowing how the team is performing we'll get a few more floggings which even Pay won't have an excuse for and the board will have no choice but to give Pay his marching orders.
It would be nice for once to see the board front the media and just say 'WERE FUCKED'.

 

[Spoonman84]

Talking about Woods, whats goin on with him he injured?
He hasnt done much for some time.

He broke a bone in his foot and it was a long term injury (10-12 weeks).