It's a culture problem': Bulldogs breakdown - Where are they going wrong? | NRL 360 | Fox League

[Dogs Of War]

When your top 30 has 20 players that wouldn't be in the NRL if they were at another club you have to churn. The fact is we let our junior production line die under Des then successive boards did knee jerk recruitment decisions paying massive overs for absolute plods over & over without even trying to fix the juniors. 8 years on and I havent seen any marquee juniors. Culture has its place in being successful but no amount of culture can fix a team full of players that are not NRL standard.

A lot of these guys could play for other clubs. It's just they need stronger guys around them. It's not been ideal having to blood so many young players when we already have so many young guys in the team. You would prefer to give them a taste and I feel that why some of the guys like Skelton and co have been held back a bit to get experience in the lower grades with the odd taste of First grade to let them have a feel of the level they need to be at and stop moving these guys in the First team as saviours which after a few losses they just drop away as they are not ready. With the experience we got this season and the players we add next season, I feel confident that we will actually be competitive next year as long as major injury doesn't strike down the forward pack again.

 

[Benno Bulldog]

A lot of these guys could play for other clubs. It's just they need stronger guys around them. It's not been ideal having to blood so many young players when we already have so many young guys in the team. You would prefer to give them a taste and I feel that why some of the guys like Skelton and co have been held back a bit to get experience in the lower grades with the odd taste of First grade to let them have a feel of the level they need to be at and stop moving these guys in the First team as saviours which after a few losses they just drop away as they are not ready. With the experience we got this season and the players we add next season, I feel confident that we will actually be competitive next year as long zen as major injury doesn't strike down the forward pack again.

I agree mate, CC knew who was staying and going and he knew why, We have strong lower grades and few middles and half away from competitive…A lot of middle road signings by Gus upsetting people. We should be ok 24.

 

[mikey]

Leadership? So you tell your Club Captain to look elsewhere despite having 2 more years left on his contract?
It's a train wreck and fact is you can't build any fucken "culture" when your churning players at the rate we churn.
For the last 2 years we've let go 12 players, then 10 players. At seasons end. RFM and Averillo were our longest serving Bulldogs. Both leaving.
End of this year we are churning at least 9 players.
That's 31 players in 3 years.
And you wanna talk to me about building an identity and a culture?
Well that cuts both ways.
How many players are doing OK now in other teams that used to play with us?
Meaney, R Smith, DWZ, Montoya, CHN ( before injured), JMK, Elliot, Cogger, others haven't kicked on granted, but the churn has been culture destroying.
We are in such an unmitigated mess now roster wise that this will take at least 6 to 8 years to fix. We developed Averillo, now we're letting one of our best finishers leave, over a pay dispute of around $100k.
More pain to come. You Betya.

RFM is the laziest defender I’ve ever seen bro.I was hoping last time we wouldn’t re- sign him.
As far as averillo goes we have a salary cap. His been offered more then take it.look at how many Penrith juniors have moved on when offered more coin elsewhere.

 

[Dannyboi88]

I think it’s an attitude problem with this team. Was t there talk last year how the players who come from Melbourne and penrith were saying how we didn’t train as hard? I’m for it if there is players who don’t wanna buy into what ciraldo is laying down fuck em off . I think weee gonna have a high turn over this year lots won’t be resigned and even a few contracted players will be moved on.
regardless we have a fair few current and former rep players

 

[Dogiezz]

When your top 30 has 20 players that wouldn't be in the NRL if they were at another club you have to churn. The fact is we let our junior production line die under Des then successive boards did knee jerk recruitment decisions paying massive overs for absolute plods over & over without even trying to fix the juniors. 8 years on and I havent seen any marquee juniors. Culture has its place in being successful but no amount of culture can fix a team full of players that are not NRL standard.

Imagine if we kept on developing the bulldogs way.

Tough coaching, players earning / proving they deserved to be in first grade. They trained you to try break you, don't break, first grade, Love it!

Been good listening to Willie Mason talk how the dogs used to be on Levels podcast.

Pity we can't go back

 

[Nasheed]

A lot of these guys could play for other clubs. It's just they need stronger guys around them. It's not been ideal having to blood so many young players when we already have so many young guys in the team. You would prefer to give them a taste and I feel that why some of the guys like Skelton and co have been held back a bit to get experience in the lower grades with the odd taste of First grade to let them have a feel of the level they need to be at and stop moving these guys in the First team as saviours which after a few losses they just drop away as they are not ready. With the experience we got this season and the players we add next season, I feel confident that we will actually be competitive next year as long as major injury doesn't strike down the forward pack again.

Exactly.

Been saying this for years. So many players are good but they are complimentary players and have suffered due to our composition of marquee and experience yo.

Meaney for example, clear as day to me he was an extremely solid player, if not a star, but how could we develop him? We needed an experienced fullback.

 

[Nasheed]

Imagine if we kept on developing the bulldogs way.

Tough coaching, players earning / proving they deserved to be in first grade. They trained you to try break you, don't break, first grade, Love it!

Been good listening to Willie Mason talk how the dogs used to be on Levels podcast.

Pity we can't go back

Hate to say it but that was cheating because we loaded players above cap.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Exactly.

Been saying this for years. So many players are good but they are complimentary players and have suffered due to our composition of marquee and experience yo.

Meaney for example, clear as day to me he was an extremely solid player, if not a star, but how could we develop him? We needed an experienced fullback.

Meany is at his ceiling. He is a role player. Adequate for how Melbourne use him in a strong team but if Melbourne had better options he would not be named. Where this dogs team is at we could not afford to play someone like that.

 

[Nasheed]

Meany is at his ceiling. He is a role player. Adequate for how Melbourne use him in a strong team but if Melbourne had better options he would not be named. Where this dogs team is at we could not afford to play someone like that.

Yes kinda right.
He has pace and a good footy brain.

Doesnt seem to have X Factor though weirdly.


That is he benefit of a strong team, Meaney type players double their value, and even if we know this, and are handed him back ona platter, it doesnt mean anything because we cant use him.

 

[Dogtime]

Simple maths, there’s Top 30 and the average NRL contract is 3 years, that’s on average 10 players lost/gained each year.

Always a Bulldog

Yes avg contract is 3 years but most clubs retain their top line players for longer than 3 years. Means successive contracts. The guys that remain at a club longer than 3 years drive that clubs culture.
Just look around at the best clubs. They generally have their best players staying longer than 3 years, so the best clubs don't churn 10 players a season.
From the top.....Penrith, Broncos, Storm, Souths, Warriors, Raiders, Sharks, Cowboys, Eels all have more than 6 players with at least 5+ years at the club. THEY drive culture.
How many does Canterbury have? Nil.
Churn = No Culture.
The proof is in the pudding.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Yes avg contract is 3 years but most clubs retain their top line players for longer than 3 years. Means successive contracts. The guys that remain at a club longer than 3 years drive that clubs culture.
Just look around at the best clubs. They generally have their best players staying longer than 3 years, so the best clubs don't churn 10 players a season.
From the top.....Penrith, Broncos, Storm, Souths, Warriors, Raiders, Sharks, Cowboys, Eels all have more than 6 players with at least 5+ years at the club. THEY drive culture.
How many does Canterbury have? Nil.
Churn = No Culture.
The proof is in the pudding.

I’ll just pick some players from one of your examples, Penrith;
Was Kikau one of their best players? He left.
Is Crichton one of their best players? He‘s leaving.
Is Spencer Leniu one of their best players? He’s leaving.

I could just as easily have quoted Melbourne with 2 x Bromwich's, Hynes and Kaufusi leaving.

In reverse the Warriors, they upgraded their culture this year by adding Johnson, Harris, AFB, CNK and Niukore plus the Coach as well.

That‘s the Salary Cap at work, but clubs can retain their culture when they loose their better players and they can improve their culture by recruiting, players and coaches.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Nasheed]

And what if RFM and Sutton had fronted management on behalf of ALL the players? You don't know if that's the case. Wouldn't the Club Captain be the man to do that?
What if, as appears distinctly possible, that CC has lost the playing group?
What then?
Gus was very shy to say much, rightly so, on 100% Footy last night.
If there's more widespread discontent, the media would sniff it out, UNLESS players weren't allowed to talk to the media. Hmmmm
Under cover of darkness, the animals decided to take action into their own hands.

My oil says RFM spoke up about Perham and in particularly Alamoti.
Hope it doesnt turn racial.
Not saying it will but him talking on behalf of Alamoti against CC was mentioned.

 

[D0GMATIC]

My oil says RFM spoke up about Perham and in particularly Alamoti.
Hope it doesnt turn racial.
Not saying it will but him talking on behalf of Alamoti against CC was mentioned.

I'd say there is some truth to that. It's hard to believe RFM was re-signed and made club captain, and is now on the slippery slope out of here, within a year.Without something like that happening. Especially if it happened in front of the playing group

 

[Shreksno1]

For the millionth time, Ciro does not have much depth in the playing roster to pick from. We have seen it over and over again, we gave other players a go and they are worse than the ones who were first picked. We have used and tried 34 players in FG this year, he's given everyone a go. We just don't have the depth and quality to call upon players when needed. It's pretty obvious.

There's only one player who was given too long of a chance in FG that I disagree with Ciro about and that is Perham. Besides he is a back, our issues are the muscle we lack in the middle forwards.

Wilson showed in his debut he is a 1st grader and Miles ahead of perhaps. Should have made the swap the following week, half the kennel seen this

 

[D0GMATIC]

Honest question:
Preston is the only one who puts in a consistently high performance tho. The rest are up and down and/or lazy/can't handle it. Who else are we replacing to instill a better culture if the current playing group (majority) are not up to scratch.

There will be quite a few cut by the end of the year, who can't cut the mustard. We are getting good young players who will drive the standards in years to come and are supplementing those with experienced players, who can help lift the standards and inspire the younger players to a higher level