Winger Options for 2010

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kimlo

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My fear is that if Hazem wasn't who he is and has achieved what he has then he wouldn't be in the team and Heka or someone else would have been given a chance by now.

I agree that Haz doesn't really deserve to be dropped and has done well enough, but Millard was in much greater form, had done everything he could do and he got dropped straight away for Morris.

"Well enough" isn't good enough and if we can do better with another player, or with another combination or by having Jamal on the wing and Millard in the centres then we need to do what is best for the team and not for the record books, legacy of a club legend or pride.

If we can't do better and that combination is the best we have then so be it. But I don't think based on my own views and opinions that is the case. At the very least I would like to see something else at least tried for a game or two to see what else we have at our disposal.

That isn't such an absurd notion is it? Why is it OK for some players to be rotated but if someone mentions Haz getting a spell out of the team to try new things then everyone goes insane?

Also Tadpole has rotated a great deal of players in almost every position this year. Could he not give Heka or someone else an opportunity in a game where we could afford to try something like that?

As Slippery said, Heka scored 13 tries in 18 games last year on a shocking team that scored very few tries. If he is training well or is in any sort of form in NSW Cup then why not give him a run?
Take hazem out of the equation for a second.
It's pretty much the same in every team in the NRL.
Usually once a player has established hiimself as a first grader they hardly get dropped because someone else is is "better form" unless they themselves are in poor form (which I don't think hazem has been).

There are a lot of players out there who could arguably be replaced for someone one who is in better form but it doesn't happen usually unless the player is in bad form, Grothe was dreadful for a fair while until he got dropped for example.

I think it goes past just form, yeah technically form is the only thing that should count but you shouldn't underestimate other factors like loyalty to players (obviously only to a certain extent), what they provide off the field and on the field beyond that of their direct playing ability and so on.

QLD state of origin team are a perfect example here, time and time agian players who are in better form will miss out and players in the QLD squad rarely get dropped unless they play bad. Stagg should of been over johnson on form, Myles should of been no where near, Crocker should of been playing FG for a few more weeks, just to list a few who weren't really selected on "form".

I understand what you are saying and Hazem shouldn't be any different but he will be.
 

bulldogs2010

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Take hazem out of the equation for a second.
It's pretty much the same in every team in the NRL.
Usually once a player has established hiimself as a first grader they hardly get dropped because someone else is is "better form" unless they themselves are in poor form (which I don't think hazem has been).

There are a lot of players out there who could arguably be replaced for someone one who is in better form but it doesn't happen usually unless the player is in bad form, Grothe was dreadful for a fair while until he got dropped for example.

I think it goes past just form, yeah technically form is the only thing that should count but you shouldn't underestimate other factors like loyalty to players (obviously only to a certain extent), what they provide off the field and on the field beyond that of their direct playing ability and so on.

QLD state of origin team are a perfect example here, time and time agian players who are in better form will miss out and players in the QLD squad rarely get dropped unless they play bad. Stagg should of been over johnson on form, Myles should of been no where near, Crocker should of been playing FG for a few more weeks, just to list a few who weren't really selected on "form".

I understand what you are saying and Hazem shouldn't be any different but he will be.
Exactly.

Lockyer's form early in the season..awful. His kicking game was hopeless and just wasn't himself but there is NO WAY he'd get dropped 'cause of the respect he demands from inside the Broncos.

I think the same for Hazem applies.

And Btrain, you said a funny thing. Millard to centre Idris to wing? no way. I'd consider Millard on the wing but Idris stays as a centre.

Have you seen the decisions Millard makes on our defencive line? leave little to be desired.
 

B-Train

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Exactly.

Lockyer's form early in the season..awful. His kicking game was hopeless and just wasn't himself but there is NO WAY he'd get dropped 'cause of the respect he demands from inside the Broncos.

I think the same for Hazem applies.

And Btrain, you said a funny thing. Millard to centre Idris to wing? no way. I'd consider Millard on the wing but Idris stays as a centre.

Have you seen the decisions Millard makes on our defencive line? leave little to be desired.
Please lets not put Lockyer and Hazem in even the same breath. Plus, again, you can have an aging player in the halves. Cliff Lyons played there til he was in his late 30's and Jason Smith was 35 but I still haven't seen a 34 year old winger running around in the last decade.

As for Millard and Idris, what is so hard to understand?

Jamal has played wing last year, plays wing half the game in defence this year, is fast, tall and is great in the air in both attack and defence.

Millard isn't as fast, cannot catch bombs to save his life and has always been a centre. He hasn't played wing for more than a few minutes in a game here or there because of injury.

So if you wanted to keep both in the team of course you would put Millard in the centres and Jamal on the wing. I would prefer Jamal to be in the centres but I would also prefer the best team possible out there each week and fact is Millard deserves his spot a great deal more ahead of Hazem based on form.
 

bulldogs2010

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Please lets not put Lockyer and Hazem in even the same breath. Plus, again, you can have an aging player in the halves. Cliff Lyons played there til he was in his late 30's and Jason Smith was 35 but I still haven't seen a 34 year old winger running around in the last decade.

As for Millard and Idris, what is so hard to understand?

Jamal has played wing last year, plays wing half the game in defence this year, is fast, tall and is great in the air in both attack and defence.

Millard isn't as fast, cannot catch bombs to save his life and has always been a centre. He hasn't played wing for more than a few minutes in a game here or there because of injury.

So if you wanted to keep both in the team of course you would put Millard in the centres and Jamal on the wing. I would prefer Jamal to be in the centres but I would also prefer the best team possible out there each week and fact is Millard deserves his spot a great deal more ahead of Hazem based on form.
I have no doubt the only thing keeping Hazem in FG is his defence and his complementing of Idris.

As a young kid, having Hazem as his winger is very good for him for 2009 or atleast till the end of the season.

But Hazem for next year is definately a no no.
 

The_General

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While I do agree that Hazem is reaching the stage where he is past is, it is going to be too tough of a call to drop him because of the respect he demands on and off the field. I can imagine the media backlash that will come against the club if it were to happen. It would place a lot of pressure on whoever takes his spot, both on the wing and as the goal kicker.

If anything, maybe Haz can be given a 1 or 2 week break towards the end of the season to get his body fresh for the finals. I'm sure at his age he would have alot of niggling injuries that take time to heal and he would appreciate some time to get them right. We could play it off to the media like he is being rested rather then dropped and that way we can check out some of our wing options within the club for 2010.

I do think Haz deserves to see out the end of the season in first grade though. He has done so much for the club and has been a great clubman and he deserves to be given a proper send off. It would be a different story if he was in shocking form, but while we may have better options for the wing, Haz is not playing so bad that he is costing us games.
 

kimlo

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Hazem deserves to finish the season. It won't only be his benefit either, for example can you imagine the publicity (and crowd size) when it's hazems last game? The club benefits big time from things like that. It gives the club a good image, a champion bloke played his whole career at the dogs and is now retiring after 300 games and so many records, sponsors love that stuff the club benefits and also the non-direct things which come out of it.

Hazem for example might be one of the player favourites in the team so dropping him might be "unpopular" and MAY effect team morale.
Also someone like Idris 18 bulldogs junior made his debut for the dogs he looks up to someone like hazem and when hazem does retire at seasons end and the club treats him well and Hazem gets an awesome send off, Idris would be looking and thinking in the back of his head I want to be a bulldogs for life after seeing how hazem gets treated by the club rather than being "ditched" as soon as you get a bit older or out of form ALA the roosters.

Look at the mentality there and how players can be killing it and then go their and become reserve grade footballers, things like that play in the back of their head, mason towards the back end of his career seeing how others there were treated wouldn't of helped, sacking a captain for example even if he was "out of form" back then was not a good idea for a lot of reasons.

Millard might be in better form(that is subjective) but I don't think a club legend should be dropped when form wise he is not doing bad.
 

DrBulldog

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keep hazem till the end of the season. he has worked hard and deserves everything he gets this season.
however we must look beyond haz for next yr. has his age is starting to show and our weakness in many games have been the wings.

i think millard has earnt a fulltime position next yr, we done need to look any further.
 

w00t

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Please lets not put Lockyer and Hazem in even the same breath. Plus, again, you can have an aging player in the halves. Cliff Lyons played there til he was in his late 30's and Jason Smith was 35 but I still haven't seen a 34 year old winger running around in the last decade.

As for Millard and Idris, what is so hard to understand?

Jamal has played wing last year, plays wing half the game in defence this year, is fast, tall and is great in the air in both attack and defence.

Millard isn't as fast, cannot catch bombs to save his life and has always been a centre. He hasn't played wing for more than a few minutes in a game here or there because of injury.

So if you wanted to keep both in the team of course you would put Millard in the centres and Jamal on the wing. I would prefer Jamal to be in the centres but I would also prefer the best team possible out there each week and fact is Millard deserves his spot a great deal more ahead of Hazem based on form.
Tbh i wouldn't have either Millard nor Hazem if that was the case.

Idris worked best with Nanai last season, and Nanai substantially improved as a winger while he was in FG.

Problem is, it isn't going to happen unless Hazem does cop an injury, Millard is a centre, and so is Idris, i would definitely not be putting the two in the one team. Moving Idris will just limit his ability to impact a game.

I doubt Idris actuallys plays wing half the game, the only thing he does that a winger is meant to do, is take bombs because he is the best at it, other than that, he defends in the centres in the middle of the field, he attacks as a centre, hell he even roams around the field like a forward at times, but i dont see him playing as a centre often at all. I dont even remember the last time Jamal was named/played on the wing in NYC. As far as i recall he has always been at the centres
 

bulldogs2010

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Tbh i wouldn't have either Millard nor Hazem if that was the case.

Idris worked best with Nanai last season, and Nanai substantially improved as a winger while he was in FG.

Problem is, it isn't going to happen unless Hazem does cop an injury, Millard is a centre, and so is Idris, i would definitely not be putting the two in the one team. Moving Idris will just limit his ability to impact a game.

I doubt Idris actuallys plays wing half the game, the only thing he does that a winger is meant to do, is take bombs because he is the best at it, other than that, he defends in the centres in the middle of the field, he attacks as a centre, hell he even roams around the field like a forward at times, but i dont see him playing as a centre often at all. I dont even remember the last time Jamal was named/played on the wing in NYC. As far as i recall he has always been at the centres
Exactly mate. I don't get people saying "Idris plays wing in defence anyway". He ctually defends in halfback spot or centre spot. Only on the last tacle he goes out on the wing.

If Hazem got injured, I'd 100% go for Nanai. Tall, strong winger who is a confidence player. When his confident, he can be a great player.

Kimlo, the post you made above is the smartest thing you've ever said.

Hazem is a legend and brings so much to Idris and the club. I'd love to see him finish this year in FG on the condition he's playing well which he is.
 

w00t

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Exactly mate. I don't get people saying "Idris plays wing in defence anyway". He ctually defends in halfback spot or centre spot. Only on the last tacle he goes out on the wing.

If Hazem got injured, I'd 100% go for Nanai. Tall, strong winger who is a confidence player. When his confident, he can be a great player.

Kimlo, the post you made above is the smartest thing you've ever said.

Hazem is a legend and brings so much to Idris and the club. I'd love to see him finish this year in FG on the condition he's playing well which he is.
Hazem is playing well and i've thought that particularly since he covered Idris incredibly well... Especially that tackle that forced Inglis into touch.

It's a hard pill to swallow at times, simply because i did not believe Hazem would have what it takes to play FG throughout the entire season, but credit to him, not only has he played well, but his goalkicking has been crucial in some of our victories
 

a shifty 1

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El Masri is obviously struggling this year with injuries this year, but as long as he's cleared he should play.

Millard, Crisp or Nanai all shape as excellent replacements. I'd like to see Crisp or Nanai given another shot, but I think Millard's experience weighs heavily in his favour.
 

astroboy

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He will be cheaper to sign compared to Williams, Morris and McManus.
 

The_General

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I can't see Melbourne losing Tomane. With Will Chambers leaving they will do everything they can to keep Tomane.
 

bulldogs2010

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He will be cheaper to sign compared to Williams, Morris and McManus.
FFS astroboy. You wana sign every player in the f'n comp.

We have Nanai and some others who are more than capable. Stop trying to buy a team when there are capable players.

And you losers who "love" Tomane like astrolosty here, remember the centre inside of him is Greg Inglis. If I was a winger and Inglis was my centre, I'd probably look good too.
 

TCB-BD

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From our team, it would have to be either Nanai or moving Morris or Idris to the wing and bring in Millard to the centres... still quite potent but I think both Morris and Idris are centres.

From another team, Tomane or Esi Tonga (I'd love Kev Gordon, but he's signed to Titans long term).
 

Dognacious

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roflol astroboy...any time someone has a good game for another team you say sign em.

astronuff....or is it niffboy?
 
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