The Tennis Thread

[Malla]

a fan, yes... and just trying to show there is blame to spread around

100% in agreeance with you. This isn't all on Novak, however we must acknowledge that he is a liar.

 

[alchemist]

Agree. It will definitely impact ratings. I can easily see his matches having less people attend, or just huge boo's from the crowd all against him - I don't think that will effect him though. He has dealt with this a lot through his career, a lot of people don't like him.

I can't wait for his speech when he win's.

no, I think people will watch, I think Djokovic fans will be out in force at Rod Laver Arena and at the complex, I think a lot of other fans are going to rip into him, I think there will be clashes between fans, I think his vaccination status will be the first topic of discussion at every press conference and interview, there will be player discontent (Fucsovics, Joao Souza have already complained), an Italian ex-pro has already called for a boycott, and imagine Djokovic wins and then has to do a full Press tour that night and all the next day with the Australian press... Holy Sh*t

they all now need to defuse this

 

[alchemist]

100% in agreeance with you. This isn't all on Novak, however we must acknowledge that he is a liar.

the mid-December L'Equipe photoshoot and the kids event is just not good for Djokovic... he can get a pass for a lot of the other things but this sinks him from a PR perspective

 

[alchemist]

Manipulating is completely different to taking advantage of a loop hole. You can manipulate (lie) in order to take advantage of a loop hole, which is what i think you are trying to say.

"Manipulate" -

def

1. handle or control in a skilful manner
2. control or influence a person or situation cleverly or unscrupulously

 

[wendog33]

This is the key factor of whether the immigration minister will cancel his visa or not. If there is potential that it will embarrass the government even more then they will let him stay in Aus (which is what will happen). This has now become all about politics and not about health and safety (which is what it should have been about all along)

And a first class, air tight visa system which it appears it is not atm.

How inept to have people fly here then, and apparently only then, the authorities fully check the truthfulness and validity of your application.

It looks like our visa system needs fixing, and urgently.

 

[Disposable Hero]

Problem is if it was a family trying to get in the way Djoke ovich has. None of the Djoke ovich fans would give a rats ass when the family is deported or detained in the Hotel Jail.

 

[Marki]

if Djokovic was prepared to fake a PCR report, why not just simply fake having received a double Covid vaccination in Serbia? it solves everything for him and he even gets to appear humbled internationally for the anti-vaxxer to get vaccinated... perfect

I don't understand why people are not more critical of Craig Tiley, Tennis Australia, Dan Andrews, the Victorian government, and the Australian Border Force... instead, the decision by the Federal Government is being delayed to allow the media to keep piling on Djokovic and once he is sufficiently villainised in the eyes of the Australian public, pull the trigger and dismiss the international response as unfortunate but necessary for border security... as if the Visigoths were threatening to sack Canberra

I guess the Aussie "fair go" is a thing of the past

No.
Faking a double vaxx needed more time and goes against his principles which is Anti-vaxx.

The courts have ruled he is allowed to stay and play because of the original bungled visa and the assumptions that his documentation was legit.

The issue now is the legitimacy of those docs. And thats a new case. Except this time, he cant play the naivety card. And he cant blame the government or Tennis Australia for that.

Just for a second, pretend this was Germany...you think this would have even made the courts?

 

[Marki]

This is the key factor of whether the immigration minister will cancel his visa or not. If there is potential that it will embarrass the government even more then they will let him stay in Aus (which is what will happen). This has now become all about politics and not about health and safety (which is what it should have been about all along)

Agree wholeheartedly. It also paints Australia in a bad way, when it was his antics that put this in the spotlight and brought up inconsistencies on a fluid situation.

Dont get me wrong, like Novak, i also think we are now at a stage we can live with the virus. I can say this now because of our high vaccine rate and the mild/moderate version of the virus. Wouldnt have suggested it a year ago with Delta around (unlike him).

But his attempts to get into the country on a backdoor process that was provided for medically compassionate reasons, and growing evidence that it was manipulated, makes HIM the villain. Not the country.

 

[alchemist]

No.
Faking a double vaxx needed more time and goes against his principles which is Anti-vaxx.

The courts have ruled he is allowed to stay and play because of the original bungled visa and the assumptions that his documentation was legit.

The issue now is the legitimacy of those docs. And thats a new case. Except this time, he cant play the naivety card. And he cant blame the government or Tennis Australia for that.

Just for a second, pretend this was Germany...you think this would have even made the courts?

the only greater complexity for Djokovic when it comes to faking a double vaccination would be a three week timeline rather than one off infection... but the benefits of supposedly getting vaccinated over a one off Covid infection when you have French and US Opens plus Wimbledon to follow as well are significant

the Federal Court found that the Australian Border Force had failed to provide Djokovic with procedural fairness when cancelling his visa and so that was quashed... that is a technical decision, not a substantive one (ie. going to the merits of Djokovic's visa)... probably why the Government consented mid-hearing... Djokovic did well in the hearing and the Government probably did not want to be bound by findings of the judge

if the documents are from Serbia, I doubt it goes anywhere, even if they are dodgy as you would need some compliance or corroboration from Serbia which you won't get

the second Djokovic was allowed to land and was detained, it became a legal issue and so, would be subject to legal rights and proceedings

 

[alchemist]

Agree wholeheartedly. It also paints Australia in a bad way, when it was his antics that put this in the spotlight and brought up inconsistencies on a fluid situation.

Dont get me wrong, like Novak, i also think we are now at a stage we can live with the virus. I can say this now because of our high vaccine rate and the mild/moderate version of the virus. Wouldnt have suggested it a year ago with Delta around (unlike him).

But his attempts to get into the country on a backdoor process that was provided for medically compassionate reasons, and growing evidence that it was manipulated, makes HIM the villain. Not the country.

fair enough

 

[Marki]

most legal claims settle... so, hopefully, there is talk behind the scenes with Djokovic's representatives to withdraw from the Australian Open and leave but in a way that saves face for both parties... Australia is simply trying to be strong on the border, Djokovic (which can be seen from the transcript of his interview with the Australian Border Force) felt he had a genuine right to travel to Australia and compete, no visa restrictions for next year, costs for the Federal Court proceedings, whatever

if Djokovic plays at the Australian Open, it will be one of the most toxic sporting environments ever

Yes, a settlement is probably the best thing.
In fact, if he was now to catch covid and was deported it would prove he never had it, Serbian test lab can claim a bungled test report error, and everyone wins, except he doesnt get to play.

The damage to AUS border rules is not a temporary thing. It has future repercussions and its integrity needs to he protected - not ridiculed.

I wont even mention the potential future border entry ban that he may subject to...

 

[alchemist]

Yes, a settlement is probably the best thing.
In fact, if he was now to catch covid and was deported it would prove he never had it, Serbian test lab can claim a bungled test report error, and everyone wins, except he doesnt get to play.

The damage to AUS border rules is not a temporary thing. It has future repercussions and its integrity needs to he protected - not ridiculed.

I wont even mention the potential future border entry ban that he may subject to...

it is one of those situations where no one emerges a winner --> Australia is incompetent and drifting dangerously into authoritarianism, Djokovic has lied and manipulated the system for his selfish benefit, the resulting Australian Open and it's eventual winner diminished, no doubt travellers to Australia have been put off, I can imagine Australians travelling overseas will be looked upon differently, and probably most importantly, plenty of other issues which require focus (omicron, supply shortages) have not received the required focus

f*+#!

 

[Marki]

And a first class, air tight visa system which it appears it is not atm.

How inept to have people fly here then, and apparently only then, the authorities fully check the truthfulness and validity of your application.

It looks like our visa system needs fixing, and urgently.

Aust Border Force is permitted to retrospectively check and cross check the validity of your application documents if new evidence or suspicion comes to light.

They had no reason to initially doubt the validity of the docs and needed hard evidence. They still need hard evidence. But now they have something and that something might turn into enough to act again. Its all part of the process. Nothing new here.

 

[Marki]

the only greater complexity for Djokovic when it comes to faking a double vaccination would be a three week timeline rather than one off infection... but the benefits of supposedly getting vaccinated over a one off Covid infection when you have French and US Opens plus Wimbledon to follow as well are significant

the Federal Court found that the Australian Border Force had failed to provide Djokovic with procedural fairness when cancelling his visa and so that was quashed... that is a technical decision, not a substantive one (ie. going to the merits of Djokovic's visa)... probably why the Government consented mid-hearing... Djokovic did well in the hearing and the Government probably did not want to be bound by findings of the judge

if the documents are from Serbia, I doubt it goes anywhere, even if they are dodgy as you would need some compliance or corroboration from Serbia which you won't get

the second Djokovic was allowed to land and was detained, it became a legal issue and so, would be subject to legal rights and proceedings

You are acknowledging that he played the system and is hiding under the banner of the justice system (which is flawed in itself).

Try explaining yourself to refugees who catch illegal boats and "land" in AUS or any other country. Poor bastards just dont have the expensive lawyers to "manipulate" the justice system under "procedural fairness"

Lol. The fekking irony of the word....

 

[Malla]

"Manipulate" -

def

1. handle or control in a skilful manner
2. control or influence a person or situation cleverly or unscrupulously

Manipulation or emotional manipulation is the use of devious means to exploit, control, or otherwise influence others to one’s advantage. In the extreme it is the purvey of tricksters, swindlers, and impostors who disrespect moral principles

Moral principles are guidelines that people live by to make sure they are doing the right thing. These include things like honesty, fairness, and equality.

In this case, Novak manipulated the system by being dishonest, thereby disregarding moral principals, specifically honesty. He used this to expose a loophole. If he was honest from the beginning, the loop hole would not exist.

 

[chris_e_fresh]

This is dragging on longer then a johnny farmham comeback tour

just let him stay I want to see the punch on’s in the crowd

 

[alchemist]

Manipulation or emotional manipulation is the use of devious means to exploit, control, or otherwise influence others to one’s advantage. In the extreme it is the purvey of tricksters, swindlers, and impostors who disrespect moral principles

Moral principles are guidelines that people live by to make sure they are doing the right thing. These include things like honesty, fairness, and equality.

In this case, Novak manipulated the system by being dishonest, thereby disregarding moral principals, specifically honesty. He used this to expose a loophole. If he was honest from the beginning, the loop hole would not exist.

I am happy to concede on this point if you apply the same strict morality on all involved --> Tennis Australia, the Victorian Government, Scomo, the media etc.

 

[Malla]

I am happy to concede on this point if you apply the same strict morality on all involved --> Tennis Australia, the Victorian Government, Scomo, the media etc.

Absolutely.

 

[alchemist]

any other year, this story may well have been the biggest story of the AO
------------------------------------------------------------
The Novak Djokovic comment that still haunts Bernard Tomic
By WWOS staff
3 hours ago

Play Video
Tomic's explosive COVID-19 claims

• NOW
  Tomic's explosive COVID-19 claims
  
  After demolishing Bernard Tomic in straight sets in Miami three years ago, world No.1 Novak Djokovic approached the Australian in the locker room after the match.

"I still remember the one thing he said to me," Tomic told The Sydney Morning Herald.

"He said to me, 'Bernard, if I had half your talent, where would I be?'"

The words have stayed with Tomic, a player who had all the talent in the world but now finds himself at "rock bottom" by his own assessment.

Tomic during a clash with Djokovic in 2013. (Getty)

His quest to come back and finish his career off strongly got off to a less than perfect start after he lost during qualifying for the Australian Open. However, his explosive complaints during the match of not feeling well have now been vindicated by a positive test for COVID-19.
During a lengthy interview with Nine's A Current Affair, Tomic outlined his plan to finish his career like he should have been spending it for the last decade.

At the age of 14, Tomic signed the most lucrative Nike deal of any sportsman his age.

He went on, aged 16, to become the youngest male to win a match at the Australian Open .

Tomic became the youngest player since Boris Becker in 1986 to reach the quarter-finals at Wimbledon when he took on Novak Djokovic as an 18-year-old in 2011.

"[My dad's] expectations of me as a player were always too high," Tomic said. "Being No.1, winning 10-20 grand slams … there was a lot of pressure put on me from my father.

Bernard Tomic was once mentored by John Fitzgerald, then Davis Cup captain. (Getty)

"It's not easy. People don't see this constant world of pressure, pressure, pressure. At times, I didn't want to play tennis.

"It was not something I enjoyed 100 per cent doing. But I was beating everyone and with winning comes a lot of good feelings with emotions as a young kid. And it grew on me."

Tomic was reluctant to delve too deep into his relationship with his father, although couldn't help but admitted the impact his upbringing had an impact on his slide over the years.

The former prodigy said his success can be attributed to the hours of time his father put into him, however the lasting residue was difficult to escape.

"I'm still scared of my dad," he said.

"I wouldn't want to be raising my kid the way I was raised.

"He's whacked balls at me, racquets and stuff. I mean, the guy is a crazy man, for sure. But he made me who I am today. It was discipline at 100 per cent.

"When you look at it now, in a way I wouldn't raise anyone like that. But I didn't know any better. Parents can be a little bit … you know? He's a good man and has a good heart and he put a lot of time and effort into making me who I am."

John Tomic. (Supplied)

Part of Tomic's attempt to make amends for his past indiscretions is sending a message to those he wronged. Australian great Lleyton Hewitt is on the list, among others within Tennis Australia.

Tomic's relationship with Hewitt hit its lowest point when Hewitt claimed Tomic blackmailed him and physically threatened both he and his family after he refused to give the player a wildcard to the Australian Open or pick him in Davis Cup.

Hewitt and Tomic's relationship has been fraught since Tomic's entourage told Hewitt that he wasn't good enough to practice with the then 16-year-old at Wimbledon.

Despite the clashes over the years, Tomic said he hoped he could "patch things up" with the former world No.1.

Lleyton Hewitt and Bernard Tomic during their days in Davis Cup. (AAP)

"I was just a little bit forceful [to] him and said 'if you come near me I'll do x and x'," Tomic revealed.

"He wanted me to do a few things that I didn't want to do and I got a little bit arrogant, which I own up to. I know that I could have not done the things that I done or said the things I said.

"But for sure at the moment when he didn't give me the wildcard, I probably wouldn't have given me the wildcard. I was 250 in the world. The moment when he didn't let me play Davis Cup, I wouldn't have let me play Davis cup for Australia.

"So I understand his position now. When I look at it ... I actually know that he's moved to the Gold Coast so Lleyton if you're watching let's have a coffee. Everything I said I take back. I own up to it. Lleyton's legacy and his tennis speaks for itself and in the future I hope to patch things up with him."

The Djokovic comment that still haunts Tomic

'I remember the one thing he said to me'

wwos.nine.com.au

 

[alchemist]

Two more Australian Open tennis players with COVID travel exemptions depart Australia
Tracey Holmes for The Ticket and ABC Sport
Posted 29m ago29 minutes ago

As Djokovic prepares for the Australian Open's first round, questions around his visa and government guidelines are still yet to be answered.(Getty Images: Kelly Defina)

Two tennis players allowed into Australia under medical exemptions have now departed the country.

Key points:

• Two tennis players who came to Australia on medical exemptions have now left the country following the detention of Novak Djokovic
• The players were allowed to enter the country and were moving freely around Melbourne before their exit
• The world number one is still waiting for Immigration Minister Alex Hawke to decide whether to cancel his visa

Sources close to the players have confirmed to The Ticket they left Australia following the detention of Novak Djokovic on his arrival, and the expulsion of Czech player Renata Voracova and one official.

Before Djokovic arrived in Melbourne last week, the group were allowed to enter the country and were moving freely around Melbourne.
The federal government has said there was no shift in government policy before and after the arrival of the world number one.

While Djokovic has confirmed he was unvaccinated and sought a medical exemption based on having recently had COVID, it's not clear how four others were allowed through immigration.

Novak Djokovic practises at Rod Laver Arena on Thursday.

The Australian Border Force has been approached for comment.

The emergence of two more players on exemptions in Australia heightens the confusion over the processing of tennis players by border officials on arrival.

The Health Department issued advice to Australian Open officials on November 18, which in part said:

"ATAGI is not responsible for border control issues, however, the Australian Border Force has advised that people must meet the fully vaccinated definition set by ATAGI to gain quarantine-free entry into Australia."

On seeking further clarification, a letter from Health Minister Greg Hunt to Tennis Australia on November 29 stated: "… the Australian Border Force has advised that people must be fully vaccinated, as defined by the ATAGI, to gain quarantine-free entry into Australia."



Confusion over ATAGI advice

The ATAGI advice on "the definition of fully vaccinated" is available here, and was last updated on December 15.

The government has denied there was a policy shift during Djokovic's transit. (Getty Images: Kelly Defina)

It notes that natural immunity from past infection is "recognised as fully vaccinated in several European countries", however, it concludes a double dose of the vaccine is required to be considered fully vaccinated.

"While evidence suggests that past infection reduces the risk of re-infection for at least six months (and therefore may be regarded as a temporary exemption for vaccination for a maximum of six months), ATAGI recommends that two doses of a TGA-approved or TGA-recognised COVID-19 vaccine according to the recommended schedule is still required in order to be considered fully vaccinated.


When Novak Djokovic departed for Australia, he was not considered a health risk. By the time he landed, he was. Whether that remains the case will determine his Australian Open fate.
Read more

"Past infection with SARS-CoV-2 is not a contraindication to vaccination."

However, in a separate section, the advice notes past infection may give rise to an exemption.

"COVID-19 vaccination in people who have had PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection can be deferred for a maximum of six months after the acute illness, as a temporary exemption due to acute major medical illness."

As these confusions continue to be untangled, Novak Djokovic himself is preparing to compete in the tournament that has made headlines for all the wrong reasons.

Djokovic was drawn as the competition's top seed on Thursday and will face fellow Serbian Miomir Kecmanovic in the opening round.

He was cleared to play after winning an appeal in the federal court that overturned his originally-cancelled visa.

However, the final decision over whether Djokovic will compete for his record-breaking 21st grand slam lies with federal Immigration Minister Alex Hawke, who has the power to cancel his visa regardless of the court ruling.

A decision is expected before the tournament's opening round.
Posted 29m ago

Two more tennis players with travel exemptions depart Australia

The ABC learns two more players who flew into Australia for next week's Australian Open in Melbourne, with the same exemption as world number one Novak Djokovic, have left the country of their own accord.

www.abc.net.au