The full extent and repercussions of Canterbury’s salary cap hell

[Horny Wog]

If there is any truth whatsoever with Eastwood on a 800k backended deal, i will not be surprised if Mbye, Klemmer, Jackson, Woods & Foran have a backended deal of 900k-1m somewhere along there contract tenure.

There were reports Graham was on a backended deal this year of 950k, Eastwood 800k, Morris bros 750k each so it would surprise me if Des n Dib did the same with Mbye, Jackson, Klemmer, Woods & Foran considering they are all contracted till about the same years

 

[Novdoggie]

So we clean them out and just automatically become a great team full of rookies. Then it will be Dean Pays fault because he doesn’t play Cleeland or one of the other reserve players. My god our fan base is so dumb.

Where does it say we will "automatically become a great team"? If you read my post I said next year would still be dismal.

Yes clean them out and start buying again even if it means playing some rookies... fool! Read posts correctly in future

 

[bells76]

Where does it say we will "automatically become a great team"? If you read my post I said next year would still be dismal.

Yes clean them out and start buying again even if it means playing some rookies... fool! Read post correctly in future

We will be looking at around 2021before we can compete in the market.... that’s when our back ended contracts will be brought under control. We are no hope of moving the deadwood on as their payments balloon the further into their contracts they go . As I said go out and speak to player managers about our situation , we are shopping in the rookie or 25 yr old fringe player market.

 

[Cook]

Where does it say we will "automatically become a great team"? If you read my post I said next year would still be dismal.

Yes clean them out and start buying again even if it means playing some rookies... fool! Read posts correctly in future

Newcastle have done it. If it means playing unders for a year to have a big crack the following year for players I agree

 

[_G-Dog_]

Eastwood is on 800K this year and its his final year.. how does this affect us in 2019..

We have Morris brothers, and Graham & Perrett and Eastwood off our books in 2019 so I cant see how the situation is as dire as made out

 

[shaun5150]

I have no doubt that we are screwed beyond repair.

The shining light is Pay and McDonnell. While the low intelligence fan base all think Pay is a terrible coach it’s actually the opposite. He is doing a great job. We have easily the worst team in the comp yet we are in positions to win most games. The players want to be there for Dean.

IMO we should just accept the position we are in and rebuild like the Knights have. Gut the place. Offload Tolman, Eastwood Morris Morris even Foran Hopoate and Woods if we can.

The only real players that Should be kept are Mybe Jackson RFM Klemmer and just build young stars around that. By the time we can buy the best talent the young guys will have improved leaps and bounds.

MYBE Keep MYBE. You are crazy. 750,000 for what. Fuck that guy right off

 

[Novdoggie]

Eastwood is on 800K this year and its his final year.. how does this affect us in 2019..

We have Morris brothers, and Graham & Perrett and Eastwood off our books in 2019 so I cant see how the situation is as dire as made out

Exactly, and who says for eg. Eastwood isn't on $600k with $200k third party which most are forgetting about

 

[Novdoggie]

If there is any truth whatsoever with Eastwood on a 800k backended deal, i will not be surprised if Mbye, Klemmer, Jackson, Woods & Foran have a backended deal of 900k-1m somewhere along there contract tenure.

There were reports Graham was on a backended deal this year of 950k, Eastwood 800k, Morris bros 750k each so it would surprise me if Des n Dib did the same with Mbye, Jackson, Klemmer, Woods & Foran considering they are all contracted till about the same years

All true but I'll go back to third parties. We don't know how much of their salaries involve third party agreements. You've mentioned five players. Let's say each have $200k each in third party. That's $1m not on the cap

 

[BlackDawg]

My take on things;
- It is not the end for the dogs but the reality is we have an arduous wait until 2021 when we will have the ability to start re-assembling the roster
- In the meantime we will lose 90% of the current squad (Which I am ok with)
- The current team tries hard but we have about 15% to 20% of our top 17 not being 1st grade capable. You cant carry that percentage in a 1st grade comp and expect to be competitive.
- Des, Dib, Raelene & Cleal certainly screwed us hard with no real repercussions or culpability for their incompetence
- Dean will ride the tsunami and come out the other side smelling like roses because his hands are tied by past management
- Our only upside over the next 3 years is the carrot we offer to talented youth to blood them in 1st grade where other clubs wont.
- The NRL do have a responsibility to protect the game and they have failed to insulate our club from inept management by registering a series of back ended contracts that they knew had massive negative repercussions

 

[Oatley Dog]

OK, so here is the deal from a very senior person on the inside.....and I have to start by apologising for doubting those who said our SC was up the creek. It most assuredly is, to the extent that there will be essentially no recruitment for 18 months, beyond a nobody or two to replace those who go. So all of our thoughts around whether this player or that should be recruited you can forget about there will be no recruitment. Now the caveat to all of this is the Morris boys and Eastwood who obviously soak up a fair bit. I couldn't push enough to get an answer on those guys but it would seem as though they will mostly be going as the backended deals that we really don't know anything about is a lot more dire than certainly I and I suspect most of you suspected. That is down to Des/Dib/Raelene.

The silver lining though is that we now have a band of 18-20 year olds coming through the system many of whom are considered to be more than just potential FG players in the next year or two. Some are considered to be guns. We are also out and about going to various school aged carnivals looking to sign up the next wave of young talent so all that means is that we are going to have an ordinary 2018/2019 but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Now most of you would be aware that I couldn't fathom how we couldn't have the cash to go after a player or two. This person said point blank there isn't any money left to go after anyone for 18 months.

That would also mean that Pay is somewhat hamstrung in putting together a team that he would be happy to send out each week as he has to play with the cards he has been dealt with.

 

[Mr Invisible]

Sorry but the maths just doesn't add up here. But Bulldogs + salary cap sells papers.

Unless we had a lot of TPAs that have pulled out, and the club is leaking to the media making it sound like it's salary cap constraints.

The NRL has to register every single TPA and player contract, so they are well aware how much cap each team has. They won't register contracts if the team is over the cap (they claim).

Easiest way to solve this is remove the cap, or bump it to say $15 million. We already know some clubs do not have a hard set cap anyway.

If we are claimed to be close to the cap, half the sides in the NRL would be in the same boat with million dollar season signings (unlike us).

 

[Novdoggie]

OK, so here is the deal from a very senior person on the inside.....and I have to start by apologising for doubting those who said our SC was up the creek. It most assuredly is, to the extent that there will be essentially no recruitment for 18 months, beyond a nobody or two to replace those who go. So all of our thoughts around whether this player or that should be recruited you can forget about there will be no recruitment. Now the caveat to all of this is the Morris boys and Eastwood who obviously soak up a fair bit. I couldn't push enough to get an answer on those guys but it would seem as though they will mostly be going as the backended deals that we really don't know anything about is a lot more dire than certainly I and I suspect most of you suspected. That is down to Des/Dib/Raelene.

The silver lining though is that we now have a band of 18-20 year olds coming through the system many of whom are considered to be more than just potential FG players in the next year or two. Some are considered to be guns. We are also out and about going to various school aged carnivals looking to sign up the next wave of young talent so all that means is that we are going to have an ordinary 2018/2019 but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Now most of you would be aware that I couldn't fathom how we couldn't have the cash to go after a player or two. This person said point blank there isn't any money left to go after anyone for 18 months.

That would also mean that Pay is somewhat hamstrung in putting together a team that he would be happy to send out each week as he has to play with the cards he has been dealt with.

Thanks Oatley. OK so 2019 will be similar to this year. Its not ideal but I don't see that to be as bad as what's being reported or stated on here.

If we are looking at our local juniors, well we have been asking for this for a long time and it's now finally happening. Pay is blooding some juniors this year and I'm sure there will be more to come next year. I am looking forward to seeing how the ISP players stack up. We have to build for the future and not for instant success by blowing out the salary cap like Des And Dib attempted with no success.

I think everyone needs to support Pay in whatever choices he makes with the roster he has to work with and get off his back. Everyone just needs to be realistic and understand this is not something we are used to but have to accept the situation we are currently in.

 

[Oatley Dog]

Sorry but the maths just doesn't add up here. But Bulldogs + salary cap sells papers.

Unless we had a lot of TPAs that have pulled out, and the club is leaking to the media making it sound like it's salary cap constraints.

The NRL has to register every single TPA and player contract, so they are well aware how much cap each team has. They won't register contracts if the team is over the cap (they claim).

Easiest way to solve this is remove the cap, or bump it to say $15 million. We already know some clubs do not have a hard set cap anyway.

If we are claimed to be close to the cap, half the sides in the NRL would be in the same boat with million dollar season signings (unlike us).

The difference between us and the others though is the level of backended deals that have been done that are all maxing out this year and next. It goes back 2 or 3 years ago when we locked up our key players long term and gambled that the cap would be much higher than it actually turned out to be. The Board of the time were banking on a cap of $10m+ this year and an escalation each of the following years up to around $13m by 2022. Of course we now know it never happened and we are stuck with contracts that escalate and swallow up more and more of the cap until their contracts expire over the next 2 years. Bottom line is that we will not be recruiting anyone for next season let alone the rest of this year. We are done.

 

[Spoonman84]

Sorry but the maths just doesn't add up here. But Bulldogs + salary cap sells papers.

Unless we had a lot of TPAs that have pulled out, and the club is leaking to the media making it sound like it's salary cap constraints.

The NRL has to register every single TPA and player contract, so they are well aware how much cap each team has. They won't register contracts if the team is over the cap (they claim).

Easiest way to solve this is remove the cap, or bump it to say $15 million. We already know some clubs do not have a hard set cap anyway.

If we are claimed to be close to the cap, half the sides in the NRL would be in the same boat with million dollar season signings (unlike us).

I don't think you really know whats going on this has nothing to do with TPAs or other clubs.

Dib, Des and Castle gambled on back ending contracts to give the club a window where they would win a comp and that didn't happen and now its time to pick up the pieces.

Why should the cap get raised to $15 mil because we can't manage it correctly?

 

[Oatley Dog]

Thanks Oatley. OK so 2019 will be similar to this year. Its not ideal but I don't see that to be as bad as what's being reported or stated on here.

If we are looking at our local juniors, well we have been asking for this for a long time and it's now finally happening. Pay is blooding some juniors this year and I'm sure there will be more to come next year. I am looking forward to seeing how the ISP players stack up. We have to build for the future and not for instant success by blowing out the salary cap like Des And Dib attempted with no success.

I think everyone needs to support Pay in whatever choices he makes with the roster he has to work with and get off his back. Everyone just needs to be realistic and understand this is not something we are used to but have to accept the situation we are currently in.

Yes mate and without putting too fine a point on it that is pretty much the plan. With the reggies going well and the juniors performing well this year the concentration will be on developing the young blokes to come up into FG this year and next. Pay knows what it takes to be a FG player and I'm sure he will do it slowly but so it nonetheless. What will be interesting is what our top 30 looks like for next season....

 

[albatross]

Pay is a former coach of elite juniors with NSW.

He’s spoken publicly before about a willingness to promote rookie talent where other coaches wouldn’t dare — which is now a potential lure for young stars wanting a saloon passage to the NRL

What a load of shit that part is. The lower grade are playing well and he is doing nothing about it

We're in a salary cap mess with a slow and overpaid team. Pay just arrived, he didnt create the problem. He can only work with the top 30 this year, but we've signed 4 or 5 promising youngsters and like you said, the lower grades are going well Building from the bottom up is happening. Pay isn't setting the world on fire but he deserves time given what he has to work with now.

 

[Spoonman84]

Looking at the players off contract I don't think there is any players that would turn us into a genuine premiership threat next year anyway.

The rest of this year and next year has to be spent on developing juniors and junior pathways as well as getting on field structures right so when we have the money we can buy the players that put us back into contention.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Lapse Morris boys Eastwood contracts and Kas and Graham expires too.

If we are in that much of a mess then sell off Woods and Klemmer which clubs would surely take even Mbye

Start again and just trust the process with youth

 

[Mr Invisible]

The difference between us and the others though is the level of backended deals that have been done that are all maxing out this year and next. It goes back 2 or 3 years ago when we locked up our key players long term and gambled that the cap would be much higher than it actually turned out to be. The Board of the time were banking on a cap of $10m+ this year and an escalation each of the following years up to around $13m by 2022. Of course we now know it never happened and we are stuck with contracts that escalate and swallow up more and more of the cap until their contracts expire over the next 2 years. Bottom line is that we will not be recruiting anyone for next season let alone the rest of this year. We are done.

If we don't need to recruit anyone and simply play with what we have (like this year) then we are cap compliant (unless we are over now).

Remember that the NRL knows what every teams cap already is (now and moving forwards).

They brought in new rules about 1-2 years ago, that they will not sign off on a contract if the club will be over the cap in that period. That includes moving forwards. In other words if the NRL approved the contracts at the time they were signed with the club, they did so knowing that we would be under the cap (backdated or otherwise), because the NRL would know that's how we intended to calculate our cap moving forwards.

If the NRL has approved those contracts, they have done so acknowledging either we are under the cap, or (the NRL) basing their own numbers on a higher cap (which isn't our fault).

 

[bells76]

Sorry but the maths just doesn't add up here. But Bulldogs + salary cap sells papers.

Unless we had a lot of TPAs that have pulled out, and the club is leaking to the media making it sound like it's salary cap constraints.

The NRL has to register every single TPA and player contract, so they are well aware how much cap each team has. They won't register contracts if the team is over the cap (they claim).

Easiest way to solve this is remove the cap, or bump it to say $15 million. We already know some clubs do not have a hard set cap anyway.

If we are claimed to be close to the cap, half the sides in the NRL would be in the same boat with million dollar season signings (unlike us).

Mate we are stuffed , I’ve spoken to player managers who have been told don’t bother shopping to us .