The Football Thread (For all Football/Soccer talk)

[coach]

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"
- William Blackstone

Your a gentleman and a scholar I see

 

[alchemist]

Your a gentleman and a scholar I see

some of my posts elsewhere might have you thinking otherwise

 

[Freakzilla]

one day you may find yourself on the wrong side of some mainstream narrative and then you will be clinging to your rights like a life preserver

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EXCLUSIVE: Bulldogs stars who were falsely accused of rugby league's most infamous 'gang rape' scandal break their silence on the hell they endured - as the code launches an extraordinary crackdown on unproven off-field behaviour

• Andrew Ryan was in Bulldogs team caught up in 2004 Coffs Harbour sex scandal
• Hazem El-Masri was the team's top point scorer and also engulfed in the drama
• Players were accused of the gang rape of a woman after a pre-season trial game
• Within 48 hours of accusations police were certain the case did not stack up
• Despite this, players came under intense media scrutiny leading to public outrcy
• Criminal charges were never laid against any player due to the lack of evidence
• Case still gets brought up in light of current off-field dramas like Jack de Belin's
• NRL announced on Thursday a controversial crackdown on off-field behaviour
• 
  
• By SHAYNE BUGDEN FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIAPUBLISHED: 02:39 AEST, 3 March 2019 | UPDATED: 07:56 AEST, 3 March 2019
  
  Two key members of the Canterbury Bulldogs team caught up in rugby league's most infamous off-field scandal have revealed the devastating effects the unproven allegations had on the players and their families.

Andrew Ryan and Hazem El Masri have spoken out about their personal experiences as the code struggles to deal with serious accusations against current stars Jack de Belin and Dylan Walker.

Ryan was the Bulldogs' captain when they won the 2004 grand final at the end of an incredibly damaging year for the club that saw a 20-year-old woman accuse players of gang-raping her after a pre-season trial.

Fellow Bulldog, devout Muslim and family man Hazem El Masri broke the NRL's point scoring record that season after also being unfairly engulfed in the drama.

Former Bulldogs captain Andrew Ryan with wife Olivia. 'Everywhere we turned it was in your face, non-stop,' he says of the Coffs Harbour pack rape scandal of 2004. 'I've got four young kids and what they'll find if they Google my name, yeah, it's a factor... it's a worry.'

Bulldogs players were photographed wearing T-shirts, shorts and thongs as they arrived at the Sydney Police Centre in Surry Hills to be interviewed by detectives on March 3, 2004. They were slammed for being disrespectful and the images became synonymous with the case

Bulldog Hazem El Masri (pictured with wife Arwa). 'Our family suffered. My wife was pregnant at the time, and some of the questions she was asked about it, it was a very stressful time'

The woman alleged she was sexually assaulted by six Bulldogs on February 22 at the Pacific Bay Resort in Coffs Harbour, northern New South Wales.
Those claims kicked off a media firestorm that Glen Pearce, one of the lead detectives in the case, says 'falsely tainted' the players and remains 'a stain that won't go away'.

No charges were ever laid and Pearce left the force in disgust at the way the case was managed by senior police.

The saga recently resurfaced in the media in light of sexual assault charges against Jack De Belin and Jarryd Hayne, bringing back some very bad memories for Ryan and El Masri.

'A lot of decent people, family people, lost their jobs,' El Masri recalls. 'It was devastating for the players, the staff, everyone.

'I remember being in an airport with the team and everyone was looked at differently - a look of, "Hang on a sec, is that one of them, could that be one of the guilty guys?"

'Our family suffered. My wife was pregnant at the time, and some of the questions she was asked about it, it was a very stressful time.

'There were cameras everywhere you went. If you smiled, if you didn't smile, everything was scrutinised. If you looked the wrong way, smiled the wrong way - you wouldn't wish it upon your worst enemy.'

'A lot of decent people, family people, lost their jobs,' Hazen El Masri (pictured with his wife Arwa) recalls of the events of 2004. 'It was devastating for the players, the staff, everyone'

The NRL has stood down star player Jack de Belin (pictured with girlfriend Alyce Taylor after a 2018 State of Origin match) from playing while he waits to answer a sexual assault charge

NRL star Jack de Belin arrives at Wollongong court

El Masri engaged his own lawyer as police questioned the players and was the only member of the team to refuse to take a DNA test - a decision he took out of concern for the effect it could have on his reputation.

'All these years later, people are going to Google your name and see that you took a DNA test for a rape allegation... my kids could Google my name, their friends could Google my name and say, "He took this DNA test, I wonder why?"'

Ryan says he and his teammates went through a shattering trial in the court of public opinion due to 'ridiculous' saturation coverage of the allegations, which were completely debunked by police and never resulted in any charges being laid.

'I remember a girl told me at a pub, "F***k off, you rapist, get out of here",'' Ryan said of the slurs Bulldogs players had to deal with.
'Everywhere we turned it was in your face, non-stop.

'I've got four young kids and what they'll find if they Google my name, yeah, it's a factor... it's a worry.'

St George lock Jack de Belin leaves Wollongong Local Court after appearing on a sexual assault charge. The NRL ruled on Thursday that de Belin had to be stood down from playing

Despite maintaining his innocence, NRL has controversially stood down de Belin from playing while he waits the outcome of aggravated sexual assault charges after a night out in Wollongong in December. The matter returns to court in April.

Similarly, the code on Thursday stood down Dylan Walker over domestic violence charges as part of a controversial new crackdown on off-field behaviour.

Walker is accused of assaulting his fiancée Alexandra Ivkovic outside their home in Dee Why on Sydney's northern beaches in December.
Walker has pleaded not guilty and his partner has retracted initial statements made to police.

NRL CEO Todd Greenberg said no judgment on guilt or innocence was being made against the players who had been stood down.
“That is a matter for the courts,” he said.

Bulldogs winger Hazem El Masri (in grey) leaves the Sydney Police Centre after meeting detectives investigating the false claims of a woman that she was gang raped at Coffs Harbour

Bulldogs including Sonny Bill Williams (right) were slammed in the media for wearing T-shirts, shorts and thongs to police interviews in 2004 - but teammates including Andrew Ryan and Hazem El Masri say the episode was a 'laughable' media beat-up that smeared the players

Ryan's recollections of the Coffs Harbour saga show how badly accused players can struggle if they're not allowed to take the field, and how easily their families are hurt by off-field scandals.

'It probably impacted the players' families more,' he said. 'We could get on the training paddock and park it away, but the families, they're the ones getting questions, they're getting bombarded, so you feel for them.

'The only way to get away from it [the scrutiny] for us was at home with your loved ones or on the training paddock ... That was our safest place to be.'

El Masri is in a unique position to speak on the code banning accused players.

In addition to the Coffs scandal, he suffered when he was dropped from his role as an NRL ambassador when he faced a domestic domestic violence charge in 2015 - with the ban lifted when he was found not guilty.

'They stood me down without even hearing me or holding any internal investigation whatsoever, even though I had a recording [that exonerated him in court]. And yet the allegation just stuck there,' he says.

'There was no grounds whatsoever for that. I never got called in, they never heard my side of the story.'

Despite that episode, El Masri told Daily Mail Australia he thinks the NRL should be able to stand players down if there is sufficient evidence they could have committed a serious crime and the player is given a fair hearing by the code before any ban is put in place.

Several players from the 2004 Bulldogs team (pictured) have spoken out about the toll the Coffs scandal took on them - and the fact no charges were ever laid against any of them

Ryan and El Masri are not alone in speaking out about how the Coffs Harbour scandal has left its mark on them.

Willie Mason told the Sydney Morning Herald, 'When they say, "You're a rapist", that makes my blood boil. Calling me a rapist just makes me want to snap and kill the bloke.

'For blokes like [2004 teammates] Sonny Bill [Williams] and Willie Tonga and Reni Maitua, it's hard ... We don't take s*** like that.'

COFFS HARBOUR SCANDAL TIMELINE

February 18, 2004: A 20-year-old woman told police she had consensual sex with six Bulldogs players on this date while they were in Coffs Harbour, northern NSW, to play a trial game.

February 22: The same woman claimed she was sexually assaulted about 6.30am. She said she was vaginally, orally and anally raped by six Bulldogs players in the pool area of the Pacific Bay Resort. A hotel worker later told police he saw the woman having sex with one player in the hotel's pool area and the sex appeared to be consensual.

February 23: According to former detective Glen Pearce, police hadn't identified a single witness whose evidence supported the allegations by this time. Four players had been interviewed by police. Former detective Glen Pearce says investigating police didn't think the allegations stacked up enough to take the matter to court.

February 24: Broadcaster Ray Hadley reads out the woman's allegations on his top-rating radio show. Detectives say this information was leaked to him by other police and should never have been made public because it could prejudice the case and increase stress on all involved.

February 24: Police have by now identified 'significant errors' in the five statements given by the woman - and the number of errors increased over time, according to Pearce. Officers also say players might have to provide DNA samples.

February 24: Bulldogs players and official have a meeting to address the allegations.

February 25: Detective Gary McEvoy contacted by NSW Police head of forensic services Superintendent Phil Fogel who McEvoy says told him allegations were 'red-hot' news in Sydney and he'd been told to give investigators all possible assistance – even if it meant putting previous, serious cases to one side.

March 3: Bulldogs CEO Steve Mortimer tells the media, 'If only a fraction of what is alleged to have happened to various women is true, it very much appals me. It goes against my family values and my faith.' Mortimer says two players will be severely disciplined for breaching the club's code of conduct.

March 3: Bulldogs players arrive for police interviews dressed casually – only captain Steve Price, Braith Anasta and Hazem El Masri were 'dressed appropriately'. Club chairman George Peponis says players were instructed to dress differently and ignored the directive. Players deny this and say they were given no time to prepare.

March 9: Detective Chief Inspector Jason Breton, the head of the investigation, confirms to the ABC that Bulldogs players are being investigated for gang sexual assault, a new offence at the time which carried a life sentence – and insists 'there's a seventh player involved' and that members of the Bulldogs organisation 'know what happened'.

March 9: Bulldogs CEO Steve Mortimer confirms sponsor Bing Lee has cancelled its agreement with the club, worth around $500,000.

March 18: Garry Hughes is sacked as Bulldogs football manager for failing to enforce the club's code of conduct. Club chairman George Peponis says the move 'is not specifically' about Coffs Harbour.

March 18: The club fines Willie Mason $10,000 and Brent Sherwin $5,000 for wearing thongs and shorts to the March 3 police interviews. Other players are threatened with probation.

March 22: Steve Mortimer resigns as Bulldogs CEO.

April 1: Police give a brief of evidence to the Director of Public Prosecutions. Malcolm Noad is announced as the new Bulldogs CEO.

April 27: Police announce they will not charge players after the DPP found insufficient evidence to prosecute.


Club legend Steve Price wrote in his autobiography 'Be Your Best' that during the Coffs Harbour affair, 'I would go to pick my kids up from school and could sense the other parents looking at me. I can just imagine what the other players went through.'

Bulldogs coach Steve Folkes said in the days after the allegations were raised: 'We've had more front pages than the 9/11 disaster in New York.'
The team's hooker in 2004, Corey Hughes, was fined $10,000 by the club for becoming involved in a brawl at a racecourse that started when he was called a rapist. His brother Glen, who played for the Dogs in 2004, was also involved.

Ryan, El Masri and many of their teammates remain angry over how the Bulldogs were treated by the media - especially when it comes to three instances of what he calls 'ridiculous' reporting - and they're backed by Glen Pearce, one of the lead detectives on the Coffs Harbour case.

On February 24, 2004 broadcaster Ray Hadley read out details of the woman's gang rape allegations on his top-rating radio program and the scandal became the biggest news story in the country.

'I believe what Hadley did was grossly negligent,' Pearce told Daily Mail Australia.

'Someone [in the police force] leaked a document to Ray and the information wasn't tested at all ... it's purely based on what she said and as time went on it was proved that what she was saying was rubbish ... it basically put fuel on the fire.'

Later that day the Bulldogs players and staff held a meeting to address the allegations. Media outlets seized on it as the team trying to get their stories straight before they were interviewed by police.

Ryan says the meeting was nothing of the sort and Pearce insists the players never gave the impression of colluding with each other.

On March 3 players were photographed wearing T-shirts, shorts and thongs as they arrived at the Sydney Police Centre in Surry Hills to be interviewed by detectives. They were slammed for being disrespectful and the images became synonymous with the case.

Ryan and club officials say the players were at training when they found out they had to attend the interviews and simply didn't have a chance to change, describing the coverage of the incident as 'laughable'.

On April 27 the police announced no charges would be laid due to lack of evidence, but the mud continued to stick to the players, even when Pearce went public about how poorly the investigation was handled.

'We knew the woman's allegations didn't stack up within 48 hours,' he told Daily Mail Australia. 'There was no independent evidence to support what she was saying but there was overwhelming evidence to support the Bulldogs from a variety of sources.'

Two vastly experienced private investigators who were former detective sergeants - one acting for the Bulldogs and one for the NRL - both reached the same conclusion that the woman was not telling the truth within a similar time frame.

But despite Pearce and other police warning their superiors - including Detective Chief Inspector Jason Breton, who headed the investigation - that the evidence overwhelmingly pointed to the players' innocence, Pearce says senior police kept 'telling the media a completely different story'.

When Breton announced the decision not to press charges, he even told the media there was evidence a rape had occurred - comments then NSW Premier Bob Carr publicly rebuked him for.

In January 2005 Pearce filed a formal report asking for the woman who made the allegations to be charged with making a false statement.

The lead detective on the Coffs Harbour case responded to Pearce on June 16, saying: 'I agree totally with Glen Pearce. The evidence against [the female] is very strong to the point where if this was any other matter [the female] would find herself charged.'

Pearce says: 'Had senior police disclosed the true status of the evidence at the time, the players would not have suffered the damage to their reputation.'

Soon after his request was rejected Pearce left the force in a decision he says was '100 per cent' about the handling of the case.

Almost 15 years later, despite being innocent, the stain still remains for the players, but their memories of that year aren't all bad.

'Winning the grand final that year is the best moment in my football career,' Ryan says.

'The best part was when we got to where our families and friends were afterwards at the leagues club. To share it with the people who were there through thick and thin for us, that was the most special bit to me.'

Hazem El Masri (pictured with his family) was engulfed in the 2004 Coffs Harbour sex scandal and went on that year to break the NRL's point scoring record with 139 goals and 16 tries

Footy stars reveal the hell scandal-hit players go through

Andrew Ryan and Hazem El Masri say the Coffs Harbour gang rape scandal that hit the Bulldogs in 2004 badly hurt innocent players and their families.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Hazem's second wife claimed he abused her & he had it all on recording her admitting to lying about it to the cops & the case was thrown out.

 

[coach]

Hazem's second wife claimed he abused her & he had it all on recording her admitting to lying about it to the cops & the case was thrown out.

Correct you are, a bit of that goes on!
And like I said it makes it so hard for the actual victims
That’s why you can’t just pin someone because they have been accused of something like some here are saying

 

[alchemist]

Hazem's second wife claimed he abused her & he had it all on recording her admitting to lying about it to the cops & the case was thrown out.

I hated how the NRL treated Hazem as a result of those allegations

Why Hazem El Masri rejected the NRL's 'insulting' offer to return as an ambassador

A devastated Hazem El Masri has rejected an offer to rejoin the NRL as an ambassador after the governing body offered him a revised contract worth 80 per cent less than the deal he was previously on.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Tassie Devil]

Interesting seeing the chest puffing from so many on here.

Yes. There are cases of men being targetted and wrongly accused of rape. Yes. This even includes players from our side. You're right.

However, it seems a majority of the men here are using this as an excuse to back the accused rather than accuser.

I just wonder what your daughters or wives would say?

You look at the recent cases of Partey and the Brighton player I can't pronounce. They got off on technicalities it seems. But we still roll out the line 'innocent until proven guilty'?

Personally I give @chemdog a lot of credit for actually calling out one of his own players rather than some on here who are hellbent protecting the scum.

I do get what you lot are saying, but simply don't agree that the first step is to say "innocent until proven guilty" as in cases of rape it's statistically extremely hard to prove outright guilt.

Had these been lower league, average players no team would touch them. We all know that

 

[chemdog]

Interesting seeing the chest puffing from so many on here.

Yes. There are cases of men being targetted and wrongly accused of rape. Yes. This even includes players from our side. You're right.

However, it seems a majority of the men here are using this as an excuse to back the accused rather than accuser.

I just wonder what your daughters or wives would say?

You look at the recent cases of Partey and the Brighton player I can't pronounce. They got off on technicalities it seems. But we still roll out the line 'innocent until proven guilty'?

Personally I give @chemdog a lot of credit for actually calling out one of his own players rather than some on here who are hellbent protecting the scum.

I do get what you lot are saying, but simply don't agree that the first step is to say "innocent until proven guilty" as in cases of rape it's statistically extremely hard to prove outright guilt.

Had these been lower league, average players no team would tough them. We all know that

it wouldn't make sense for the victim to even be posting constantly on Twitter about it for it to not be true

 

[Tassie Devil]

it wouldn't make sense for the victim to even be posting constantly on Twitter about it for it to not be true

Agree. Get what people are saying but surely you look at this case with all the screen shots and the reasons the police dismissed it and realise that there's something going on?

In saying that, there are examples of people using Twitter to back their false claims. So, that can't be the only yardstick of course.

In this case tho ....

Again, if this was an average player or a factory worker or something like that. Would he get away with it?

 

[chemdog]

Agree. Get what people are saying but surely you look at this case with all the screen shots and the reasons the police dismissed it and realise that there's something going on?

In saying that, there are examples of people using Twitter to back their false claims. So, that can't be the only yardstick of course.

In this case tho ....

Again, if this was an average player or a factory worker or something like that. Would he get away with it?

I honestly haven't heard anything about the greenwood situation of late.

im honestly surprised nothing has eventuated with the partey situation with everything getting leaked over the last few days

 

[alchemist]

Amber Heard's 2018 Op-Ed Now Has A Lengthy Editor's Note Attached To It After Johnny Depp Verdict
By Heidi Venable last updated June 04, 2022

The article was at the center of the six-week trial.

Johnny Depp got a big win in his highly publicized and antic-filled defamation trial with ex-wife Amber Heard. At the center of the six-week trial was a 2018 op-ed written by the actress and published in The Washington Post, and since a jury found Heard guilty on three counts of defamation — awarding Depp $15 million in the process — the media site has added a long Editor’s Note to the original opinion piece, giving necessary context to future readers.

Over the course of six weeks, a jury was tasked with deciding if Amber Heard’s article, titled “I spoke up against sexual violence — and faced our culture’s wrath. That has to change,” implied or insinuated anything about her former husband and whether her statements were false or written with intention of malice. Upon finding Heard guilty, The Washington Post added a lengthy addendum to the online version of the article, quoting the passages that were found defamatory:

Editor’s note, June 2, 2022: In 2019, Johnny Depp sued Amber Heard for defamation arising out of this 2018 op-ed. On June 1, 2022, following a trial in Fairfax County, Va. Circuit Court, a jury found Heard liable on three counts for the following statements, which Depp claimed were false and defamatory: (1) 'I spoke up against sexual violence — and faced our culture’s wrath. That has to change.' (2) 'Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out.' (3) 'I had the rare vantage point of seeing, in real time, how institutions protect men accused of abuse.' The jury separately found that Depp, through his lawyer Adam Waldman, defamed Heard in one of three counts in her countersuit.

During the trial, which was followed closely by fans who were able to watch the proceedings on TV, public opinion leaned heavily in favor of Johnny Depp. Though Depp was not specifically mentioned in the op-ed piece, Depp’s lawyers insisted their client was implicated as an abuser, and a jury unanimously agreed. He was awarded $10 million compensatory damages and an additional $5 million in punitive damages. Given Virginia law, where the case was set, that was shifted down to a little over $10.3 million in total, as punitive damages are capped at $350,000.

Amber Heard's 2018 Op-Ed Now Has A Lengthy Editor's Note Attached To It After Johnny Depp Verdict

The article was at the center of the six-week trial.

www.cinemablend.com

 

[Tassie Devil]

Honest question to what seems a cast majority on here.

What if the woman making these claims was your daughter? Your sister?

Would you still have the whole "innocent until proven guilty" stance?

Intrigued tbh as I get the points you're trying to make, just confused as to your seemingly obsessive take on this that we need to consider the accused first

 

[Tassie Devil]

I honestly haven't heard anything about the greenwood situation of late.

im honestly surprised nothing has eventuated with the partey situation with everything getting leaked over the last few days

Look at Mendy. Club backed him until last moment and now he's in jail.

I just think the clubs will back their players till the end as it's their investment

 

[alchemist]

doesn't work that way... of course, subjectively we would all respond differently... but the law has to be above simple emotion

 

[Tassie Devil]

doesn't work that way... of course, subjectively we would all respond differently... but the law has to be above simple emotion

Of course it works that way.

The law has proven to be wrong on countless occassions on this matter, but we should follow it? If the tables were turned and it was happening to you, I doubt you'd be posting all of these things?

Again, if these players weren't so 'top class' would they be given so much leeway?

Of course I see where you're coming from, and agree to some extent.

 

[Paul Depodesta]

Honest question to what seems a cast majority on here.

What if the woman making these claims was your daughter? Your sister?

Would you still have the whole "innocent until proven guilty" stance?

Intrigued tbh as I get the points you're trying to make, just confused as to your seemingly obsessive take on this that we need to consider the accused first

What if the accused was your son or brother ?
Would you still be guilty guilty guilty? Lock him up coz she said it happened

 

[Paul Depodesta]

Look at Mendy. Club backed him until last moment and now he's in jail.

I just think the clubs will back their players till the end as it's their investment

I think more the clubs protecting themselves from a law suit if the club sacked em and they weren’t guilty rather than backing them
Coz if they sacked em and they were found not guilty that’s unfair dismal at the least

 

[Tassie Devil]

What if the accused was your son or brother ?
Would you still be guilty guilty guilty? Lock him up coz she said it happened

True. Fair point tbh.

But, I would definitely step back and look at the facts going around. If it comes to paying a person off to be quiet, then I certainly as a parent would be asking questions.

 

[Tassie Devil]

I think more the clubs protecting themselves from a law suit if the club sacked em and they weren’t guilty rather than backing them
Coz if they sacked em and they were found not guilty that’s unfair dismal at the least

Again. Fair point tbh,

 

[alchemist]

Of course it works that way.

The law has proven to be wrong on countless occassions on this matter, but we should follow it? If the tables were turned and it was happening to you, I doubt you'd be posting all of these things?

Again, if these players weren't so 'top class' would they be given so much leeway?

Of course I see where you're coming from, and agree to some extent.

basic fundamental rights are easy to accept... it is when there are complicated matters with competing rights and duties and difficulties and mess ups etc. where your beliefs get tested

for example, there have been dozens of women that have alleged that Bill Cosby sexually assaulted them over the decades with the modus operandi being that he would invite back to his place and he would then drug them and then have his way with them and they would subsequently wake up disorientated in bed with him or with injuries etc... Bill Cosby was then subsequently sued civilly for compensation by at least one of the women and when it came to him giving a deposition, he refused because his evidence might be used against him in any subsequent criminal matter... the DA then provided him with a guarantee of sorts that no criminal proceedings would be brought against him and thus, he had no constitutional right to silence... he then gave a deposition and they might have settled the civil claim (I forget now)

but importantly, a new DA refused to abide by the guarantee and tried Bill Cosby criminally and used evidence Cosby had given in the civil claim and Cosby was convicted and sentenced to prison... on appeal, the conviction was set aside on the basis that Cosby was denied his constitutional rights being right to silence because had he known that he would subsequently be tried criminally, he would not have provided a deposition in the civil case and in effect, give the prosecution a leg up in prosecuting him... and hence, Cosby is now a free man

work that out as to what is right

 

[Freakzilla]

Honest question to what seems a cast majority on here.

What if the woman making these claims was your daughter? Your sister?

Would you still have the whole "innocent until proven guilty" stance?

Intrigued tbh as I get the points you're trying to make, just confused as to your seemingly obsessive take on this that we need to consider the accused first

Again like usual you use a stupid example. I honestly believe that you have a below average IQ from some of the comments that you make.

I trust my sisters, I don't trust strangers.

If he is guilty of the crime I hope they throw the book at him but I'm not just going to side with anyone that makes any accusation. I'm not siding with either side.